Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > The Spearboard Tavern > Politics/Religion Forum

Politics/Religion Forum This special place is for threads that are primarily on political or religious subjects.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-04-2018, 02:44 PM   #1
Marcus
Naval gazer extraordinair
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,137
History lessons

Waning patriotic on our Independence day...so sad to see it being destroyed like Venezuela by the ignorant masses of sheeple propagandized by the puppet masters determined to bring the USA to it's knees.

"Would The Founding Fathers Recognize Modern America?"

Quote:
Roman Example

Many of the founders of the American Republic were readers and scholars. “I can’t live without books,” said Jefferson.

He, Monroe, Madison, Adams, and others were much more aware of Roman history than our leaders today. Most had studied Latin and/or Greek.

They had read Plutarch, Seneca, Sallust, Suetonius, and Cicero.

Much was known about the Roman era... and much was discussed. People believed they could learn from it and do better.

In the same year that the Declaration of Independence was adopted, Edward Gibbon published the first volume of his masterpiece, The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.

The Founding Fathers were well aware of the transition – natural, and perhaps inevitable – from republic to empire. They had studied it in the Roman example. They had seen how it drew power into a few hands… and corrupted them.

They tried to prevent it from happening in the New World, putting in place limits… circuit breakers… and checks and balances… to keep the government from becoming too big, too ambitious, or too powerful.

Even then, they were doubtful that it would stick. “We give you a republic...” Franklin wrote to posterity, “if you can keep it.”

America did keep it... for nearly 100 years. Maybe a few more. Then, the metamorphosis occurred. And, like Rome, it was not very pretty.
__________________
“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?”
― Frederic Bastiat, The Law
Marcus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2018, 03:47 PM   #2
Marcus
Naval gazer extraordinair
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,137
Re: History lessons

I scored worse than I thought I would.

Rediscovering America: A Quiz On The Fourth Of July
__________________
“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?”
― Frederic Bastiat, The Law
Marcus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 05:33 AM   #3
Marcus
Naval gazer extraordinair
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,137
Re: History lessons

Ukraine on Fire: The Real Story - Full Documentary by Oliver Stone
__________________
“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?”
― Frederic Bastiat, The Law
Marcus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 03:52 PM   #4
mepps1
Registered User
 
mepps1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Gillette, WY
Age: 42
Posts: 6,617
Re: History lessons

http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pra...t-war-germany/
mepps1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2018, 08:35 AM   #5
Marcus
Naval gazer extraordinair
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,137
Re: History lessons

When The US Invaded Russia
__________________
“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?”
― Frederic Bastiat, The Law
Marcus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 09:01 AM   #6
Marcus
Naval gazer extraordinair
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,137
Re: History lessons

Great documentary, if you haven't seen it.
Zuesse: This Is The Real, Americanized, Nazi-Dominated Ukraine



Quote:
Such important reality as is shown in this picture below is virtually unpublishable in mainstream US ‘news’media, because US ‘news’media need to deceive their public about the most important international realities — such as that the US imposed upon Ukraine a nazi regime against Russia, and the US now lies to accuse Russia for doing what Russia must do in order to protect itself from the US nazi regime next-door.

This picture is among many which were originally published in the excellent 4 July 2018 article by Asa Winstanley at The Electronic Intifada. His article was headlined "Israel is arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine”. That article focuses upon Israel’s strong support for the racist-fascist (or ideologically nazi) Government of Ukraine. (Click onto it to see the documentation — it’s Israeli nazis, against Russians, not against Jews, though they’re allied with ones that are against both, which is why the US did this — aiming to conquer ultimately Russia.)

Israel does this as part of the US-led coalition in support of the current racist-fascist Government of Ukraine, which Government was installed in a bloody coup that US President Barack Obama started planning by no later than 2011 (This must be fake news, Obama just received his 2nd peace prize. /s) and started operations on 1 March 2013 and carried out in February 2014 under the cover of US State Department and CIA-generated anti-corruption mass demonstrations on Kiev’s Maidan square, but some of whose US-funded snipers have already gone public (though not in US 'news'media) describing how they were hired to do it, and how they did it.

How, then, can anybody believe the US ‘news’media, which hide these clear realities, instead of ever having reported them to the duped American public?

The US Government’s anti-Russian sanctions, and its NATO exercises with US missiles and tanks on and near Russia’s borders, are based upon the US government’s lies, not upon the truths that this photo represents and which will here be explained.

In US ‘news’media, the overthrow and replacement of Ukraine’s democratically elected government was ‘the Maidan Revolution’, or ‘the 2014 Ukrainian revolution’, not Obama’s coup in Ukraine. They lie blatantly, and they’ll never be truthful about their having done it. Thus, George Friedman, the founder and owner of the “private CIA” firm Stratfor, called it “the most blatant coup in history,” but only when speaking to a Russian publication...
The person at the center of this photo above, is Andrei Biletsky (or “Beletsky”), whose Battalion is directly armed by US taxpayers (i.e., by the US Government).
__________________
“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?”
― Frederic Bastiat, The Law
Marcus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2018, 11:22 AM   #7
Marcus
Naval gazer extraordinair
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,137
Re: History lessons

The Unpleasant Truth About The 1941 Parachuting Of Rudolf Hess In England, Part 1
__________________
“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?”
― Frederic Bastiat, The Law
Marcus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2018, 08:39 PM   #8
Marcus
Naval gazer extraordinair
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,137
Re: History lessons

Why Your Vote Hasn't Mattered Since 1913
__________________
“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?”
― Frederic Bastiat, The Law
Marcus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2018, 08:28 AM   #9
riplipper
Relax, a beer will help
 
riplipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fleming Isle/Jax
Posts: 4,533
Re: History lessons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33i_BAhuiE0 this was well done
__________________
If Democrats don't want foreigners involved in our elections, why do they think it's all right for illegals to vote?
riplipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2018, 02:23 PM   #10
mepps1
Registered User
 
mepps1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Gillette, WY
Age: 42
Posts: 6,617
Re: History lessons

Quote:
Originally Posted by riplipper View Post
Hm. I always thought guvermunt could hand out free stuff forever, more and more each year.

Maybe this time will be different.
__________________
Who fails to listen early,
Will seldom hearken late.
Words of precious warning,
Are oft repaid with hate.
mepps1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2018, 10:22 PM   #11
North Star
Max
 
North Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Age: 63
Posts: 5,915
Re: History lessons

__________________
nec timor nec temeritas (neither fear nor foolhardiness.)
North Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2018, 03:16 PM   #12
Marcus
Naval gazer extraordinair
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 39,137
Re: History lessons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37Oxb110P0Q
__________________
“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?”
― Frederic Bastiat, The Law
Marcus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 04:49 PM   #13
North Star
Max
 
North Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Age: 63
Posts: 5,915
Re: History lessons

Okay, let’s get this straight. In any war it is a conflict of ideologies. When ancient Empires went to war, the conquering nation entered into the Capitol of the conquered state and demolished the gods and the images that the conquered people worshiped and replaced them with the new gods. During WWII we did not distinguish between the “good Nazis” and the “bad Nazis” and try and build a coalition with the “good Nazis”.

All of the Nazis were our enemy, and total conquest with complete subjugation and eradication of the Nazi regime was how we won the war.

We eradicated emperor worship in Japan.

The number one objective in war is to correctly identify and annihilate the enemy and destroy their will to fight. This America failed to do in its so-called "war on terror."

In Afghanistan we had an idiot President, George Bush, who couldn’t master English and pronounced terrorists as “tourists”, chuckled and guffawed making speeches calling Islam a “religion of peace” no less than twenty times within four months after 9/11, mismanaged the war by shedding American blood and spending billions of dollars to set up a SECOND Shariah based government in Afghanistan and Iraq, trying to win over the hearts and minds of these bloodthirsty savages.

Both he and Obama allowed misguided liberals in the State department to pass rules and regulations prohibiting troops from arming themselves and taking proactive action against imminent threats, violating every protocol of war since the Sumerians ruled in Sinar, and failing to set an goal line for winning the war.

Bush and Obama should be tried for war crimes and treason.

What should we have done? We should have entirely subjugated the regions in Iraq and Afghanistan, arrested the Mullahs, outlawed Islam, made them both territories of the United States and instituted an decades long program of educating, changing the culture, and civilizing the native population BEFORE we tried to import democracy to them, if they even needed democracy at all.

If we did not have that intention then we should never have engaged in this senseless war in the first place.

Either have total war, or no war at all.
__________________
nec timor nec temeritas (neither fear nor foolhardiness.)
North Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 05:24 PM   #14
North Star
Max
 
North Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Age: 63
Posts: 5,915
Re: History lessons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Paul Hofman - Review of the book this movie was based on

October 19, 2016

I am a man of German descent before I begin. German suffering was large after the country's capitulation, that it makes my heart bleed as well. The war should have never happened. I have studied post-occupational policy and the treatment of POWs during WW2 for quite some time now.

If you want to know the truth, you need to look at German doctorates because they have the most knowledge on German casualties during WWII. Your best source is Rüdiger Overmans, who is a retired Bundeswher Colonel with extensive knowledge on the matter. He has all records and testimonies to back his claim. Open your eyes, and do your research through academia. Now to Hell Storm. Thomas Goodrich is a known White Supremacist and an active Holocaust Denier.

Knowing that alone should make you wonder how much of this book/movie is unbiased. The truth is Hell Storm is not supported by a single doctorate of history, and has been labeled as a complete farce in the realm of historical academia. Notice that it isn't backed by any primary source documents, testimonies, and that it's author has no background in history or publicized written publications.

YES, it is based off fact, and events like mass rapes, and killings certainly did happen on a massive scale, but the gross and abused revision of history in that book alone is so profound that it doesn't take a smart person to know when they are looking at revisionist garbage. I found multiple pieces of evidence that were flat out untrue. The fastest one that I can recall was Ehrenberg’s so-called call for the Red Army Soldiers to rape and murder civilians through leaflets. Not true.

That was Nazi propaganda, made by the Nazis. The Nazis actively did this to strengthen the resolve of its Soldiers. Ehrenberg retracted even a leaflet called “Kill” inciting violence against Germans by sending out another leaflet to clarify that prisoners, surrendered soldiers, civilians, women, and children shall never be harmed. In Other Losses, James Bacque abuses his methodology in basic and simple computations. He claims that 1,000,000 POWs actually died at the Rhine Meadows Camps.

Overmans, his associates, and other German professors, to include western professors in the U.S. have debunked such claims as completely impossible. Overman's assessment is that between 3,000-10,000 died out of 1,000,000-1,900,000 POWs detained at the Rhine Meadows Camps. His assessment is that 5,500 POWs died there, but due to other German professors and military war dead commissions citing different numbers (all below 10,000), the official assessment is between 3,000-10,000 POWs.

Much of this was due to neglect from, sickness, war wounded attrition, and deprivation of basic sustenance amid the chaos. With that calculation taken into account, that is a 1.0% casualty rate at the very highest at the Rhine Meadow POW camps. Remember that the Rhine Camps only operated for 3-4 months. The US casualty rate of German POWs was among the lowest (after Britain) in comparison to any other Allied Power, especially when we take the Soviets into account.

You know how the missing 1,000,000 was debunked officially beyond just historical analysis? The German War Graves Commission discovered over 1,000,000 Dead German Soldiers since 1993! Imagine that. There's your missing 1,000,000 "other losses". Don't blindly follow the blind. People like Bacque and Goodrich are out there for money, and have NO background in history, and have been debunked as providing false information by ALL GERMAN and Western professors of history.

As for the food situation, records by history professors show that few people actually died. There was a proven mortality rate among older people and a 30% increase in infant mortality compared to the 1939 population, but did not lead to epidemic genocidal deaths as described here. Dr. Wiggers did an in-depth study on this and states that very clearly in his writings as the Associate Professor of History at the Royal Military College in Canada. YES, Europe was starving, and Germans were not the first in line. Food went to places like the Netherlands and Poland first because all of their food was stolen by the German Army. They were flat out dying.

There may have not been a lot of food in Germany, but there was food, and their estimated cleric intake daily was 1500, not including those received on the black market. Maybe people need to stop believing what they hear and actually look at German census records. If you need help during your quest for knowledge, I suggest you turn towards the German War Graves Commission, the Maschke Commission, and doctorates of history.
__________________
nec timor nec temeritas (neither fear nor foolhardiness.)
North Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 05:29 PM   #15
North Star
Max
 
North Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Age: 63
Posts: 5,915
Re: History lessons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Also from the reviews:

Author’s Anti-American/Anti-Semitic Lens Distorts and Distracts From Important Topics

I picked up Hellstorm looking for information about historical war atrocities. I had hoped for an honest and objective treatment of what is a very serious subject. What I got was fodder for a white-supremacist propaganda machine.

Thomas Goodrich’s focused pointedly on any hint of a Jewish role in the atrocities against the Germans, both alleged and confirmed. His eagerness to capitalize on any questionable action by the US/British forces against the German people was zealous. In the end, he tried to make Hitler out to be a leader who just wanted to defend his country from being torn apart by a pack of aggressive neighbors who, at best, were no worse than the German Nazis. In the end, this book does a terrible disservice to those who want to understand what happened during World War II and why.

That said, a great many of the first-hand accounts in this book ought to be required reading for statesmen and warriors. Goodrich provides a marathon recounting of human suffering that effectively drives home the point that war is a hellish thing to be avoided. For this I can applaud him.

I will also give the book credit for raising some legitimate concerns about the conduct of the Allies during the war. The moral justification for the fire-bombings of Hamburg, Dresden, and other German cities (along with Japanese cities) has long been in question. But there are more responsible, scholarly discussions out there about the matter. The Wikipedia is a good starting place to finding better resources on the topic.

He also raised the concern about the repatriation of unwilling Soviet citizens to the oppressive Stalinist regime. This is something I had heard of as far back as 10th grade (a very long time ago). It shouldn’t have been allowed, but we know it happened. The only question is to how many people. Most of the author’s material on this topic came from a handful of books: Nikolai Tolstoy’s “Victims of Yalta” aka “The Secret Betrayal”. So far, I’ve not found much scholarly research about the repatriation of Soviet citizens and would appreciate pointers.

Of special interest to me as an advocate against human trafficking and gender-based violence, the book showcased the widespread perpetration of rape and murder of German civilians, particularly by the Soviets. Unless you are a sociopath, you can’t read those stories without feeling outrage and sorrow.

Such stories should be told to inspire us to do everything possible to avoid wars or at least to end them quickly. They should not be used to infuriate us against Jews, which was the not-so-subtle intent of the author. Yes, the Jewish propagandist Ilya Ehrenburg helped fuel Soviet hatred of Germans which doubtless contributed to rape and murder of many, many people. It would be naïve to think he was the primary spur. The Germans had invaded the Soviet homeland, raped and murdered many people themselves, and the Soviet leadership, all the way up to Stalin, saw no reason to restrain their vengeance (which was abhorrent and wrong in the extreme). Sadly, some anti-Semitic websites have already reviewed this book and exploited it for all its worth.

Despite all this, the wheels didn’t fall off for me until the author tried to paint Eisenhower as no better (and perhaps worse) than Hitler. It is a good question as to why Eisenhower didn’t push on to Berlin. We would be deluded to think it was because he hated the Germans so that he wanted to give the Berliners to the Soviets to rape and murder. If Eisenhower hated them so much, it stands to reason that he would rather have conquered them himself.

While it is valid to ask whether or the Western Allies mishandled German prisoners in the post-surrender phase, Goodrich chose to draw most of his material and arguments on this matter from of a single book called “Other Losses” by James Bacque. The wiki article about “Other Losses” points out that Bacque’s work has been thoroughly discredited (see the article’s referenced sources for further details so you can decide for yourself).

At about the 60% point of the book, I realized there was little point in finishing, given the lack of scholarly rigor involved.

The perpetration of hate exemplified by Goodrich is dangerous. It is no small irony that he dresses his book up as a warning about the horrors that hate can lead to, while at the same time trotting out anti-Semitic tripe. Then he uses real stories of rape and murder to stoke that hate. That’s sad and wrong.
__________________
nec timor nec temeritas (neither fear nor foolhardiness.)
North Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:05 PM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com