Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > United States Geographical Locations > California Spearfishing

California Spearfishing Talk here about spearfishing on California's Pacific Coast, and post those reports and photos!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 9 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 09-13-2013, 02:02 PM   #31
theburb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 147
Re: Lobster Advisory Committee Meeting Outcome: 9/11/2013

Any discussion of a Mini Season in CA?
theburb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 05:24 PM   #32
Blue Man
Registered User
 
Blue Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 954
Re: Lobster Advisory Committee Meeting Outcome: 9/11/2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by rojodiablo View Post
There is only 1 MLPA. There are some-odd 30+MPA's of assorted various types.

Again; this plan is a design for the 2035 lobster season. And every season between 2015 and 2035. Maybe you need to wrap your mind around the spatial scope of time involved with LONG TERM fishery management, and quit thinking about the 2013/ 2014 lobster season.

FWIW, this was the downfall of the hoop net reps. They were not looking at this as a long term deal. The program we are making is to be there all the way out when Ethan's kids are young adults diving. You do not plan for your kids' college by waiting until they are 18, and then decide to start planning to save money. Until people realize the scope of time we are tasked with working with, and the potential for growth in the fishery? They will ask this question approximately 733 more times before the new regs will hit the books.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to design and craft an even remotely complete fishery management plan by saying "Everything is fine, so do nothing. If there is a problem in the future, THEN we will look at it."

What we are tasked with is making decisions now which will minimize any chance of having to open up Pandora's Box and start digging around for duct tape to patch up a suddenly damaged fishery. It's not in bad shape. Very true. But if something STARTS to happen? We want a plan to assess what is happening in place. So we can be on top of it. And then, we want a program which will make checks and balances to minimize, or stop any damage before it gets serious. 'Cause- we won't be there personally to do management. That will be the job of the DFG/ DFW. We are just being given an opportunity to help them design that process and program.

Check back in with me if you can realistically tell me how much you expect the recreational sector to grow in another 10-15 years.
Because, I can tell you right now: The diver numbers are pretty constant, and slightly dropping as a trend. Yet- there are some-odd 20,000 new fishermen in the recreational lobster fishery in the last 10 years. How much might that grow in another 20 years...........??? How much take will be associated with that number of fishermen? How much legal take will their be? How much illegal take will there be?

You have to chew on the entire piece of meat, not just nibble off the corner when you are making your considerations for this.
Please don't mistake me for someone who doesn't care about the long term viability of our lobster fishery. I guess I think you should not restrict private citizens from legally using their states resources until a scientifically verifiable problem is discovered. I was under the assumption that the lobster fishery is very healthy, but I wasn't aware of the increase in hoop netters and I can see how you'd have to account for that.

Having said that, divers who have to get in the cold water and catch them by hand shouldn't be punished because of a change in hoop netters who just sit in a boat or whatever. Just my opinion.

Just my thoughts...Thank you for protecting this resource and our rights.
Blue Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2013, 08:28 PM   #33
rojodiablo
My spawn kills on....
 
rojodiablo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca
Age: 53
Posts: 8,572
Re: Lobster Advisory Committee Meeting Outcome: 9/11/2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by theburb View Post
Any discussion of a Mini Season in CA?
None. We have a long season. It would be too complicated to split the season, it would add a lot of confusion; nobody wants any more headaches than they already have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by laguna80 View Post
Did anyone suggest a reduction in take, the magic 70 number, but with the caveat that that number CANNOT be touched for 30 years or something like that? Since this take limit is for enforcement and it's to be used for the long term future, I'd expect recreational people would be a lot more receptive if they knew the number couldn't be touched. Curious to know if anyone brought up the issue in the context of others who want to use that limit to reduce the number even further in the next few years?
That is how it is proposed. A number which can not be altered lower to meet some scientific goal which it is not meant to reach. Also, we do not want it to be monkeyed with just to create violations so they can show its' effectiveness.
Kinda like police setting a radar trap, and everyone follows the 50mph speed limit. But then, they lower the speed limit to 35, and viola! They are catching speeders.
Yes, we did think of these kinds of scenarios!

Blue Man; we are cool. It was never proposed to us to be a slam dunk contest when we signed up. We knew there was a lot to really digest when trying to think forward. I'd like to think we as a whole did a pretty good job of getting that part included with the program we worked on.
__________________
Safety is but an illusion; Every grain of sand was once a mountain. Every speck of dust..... was once a man. Nothing can stop this, in time. So use the time you have well..... you won't get it back.
rojodiablo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2013, 09:17 PM   #34
xiv014
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 18
Re: Lobster Advisory Committee Meeting Outcome: 9/11/2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by rojodiablo View Post
As to proposals; the proposals I brought forth got consensus on one front: Marking of hoop net buoys. The other 2 proposals were accepted by all the LAC, with the exception of the hoop net reps. 'Closely attended hoop nets' and a change to the number of hoop nets per angler.
(
Why did you propose regulations for hoop nets?
xiv014 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2013, 11:23 PM   #35
rojodiablo
My spawn kills on....
 
rojodiablo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca
Age: 53
Posts: 8,572
Re: Lobster Advisory Committee Meeting Outcome: 9/11/2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by xiv014 View Post
Why did you propose regulations for hoop nets?
Simple. Hoop net growth has been exponential over the last 10 years. The number of divers has stayed stable, and actually shrunk. At this point, the averages are pretty telling on volume and take overall. The issue is, and will be, what to do about growth in the future of the sport, and how will this affect the lobster population over time.
In the case of places where there is no commercial take allowed, it has been noted repeatedly how the quality of the fishery is showing signs of diminishing. Also, it has been noted with places like Catalina, how much commercialization has been taking place, and can not be readily accounted for, nor easily stopped with current enforcement rules in place.

My first 2 proposals are aimed at illegal commercialization as a primary factor. Secondary is diver safety. Third is navigational safety improvement.
My 3rd proposal is aimed at the future of hoop netting, and allowing for growth in the sport without overcrowding certain areas, like breakwalls. Furthermore, if the growth were to stay near the levels it has been for the last 10 years, the volume of fishermen, their take, and the illegal take that comes along with it will need to be addressed.
By cutting the number of hoops allowed, this will relieve pressure for quite a few years, and at that time, management assessments will be able to take up the slack, and if there is a need for corrections on gear restrictions, then it can be addressed.
I would rather see the fishery remain open to all who wish to go after lobster. I really do not want to see a system of lottery draws or first come, first served lobster cards. To achieve this in the future will mean we have to look at options of how to maintain the recreational fishery, while accounting for growth.
__________________
Safety is but an illusion; Every grain of sand was once a mountain. Every speck of dust..... was once a man. Nothing can stop this, in time. So use the time you have well..... you won't get it back.
rojodiablo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2013, 11:28 PM   #36
shafe
Registered User
 
shafe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Malibu & Santa Barbara
Age: 51
Posts: 625
Re: Lobster Advisory Committee Meeting Outcome: 9/11/2013

Paul. I remember you saying a while back that they are going to change the language so we will be able to POSSESS a speargun while we lobster dive, we just can't USE one to hook lobsters. Do you know when this new language will take effect? Do we have to wait until 2015/16?

Would be nice to know as we get closer to lobster season...
shafe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2013, 11:36 PM   #37
Mark302
Registered User
 
Mark302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Torrance, CA
Age: 51
Posts: 784
Re: Lobster Advisory Committee Meeting Outcome: 9/11/2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound View Post
Thanks for the write up Byron, your going to make a great President next year
I second that motion, with Paul Z as VP!!! LOL

Thanks for the update Byron and all the hardwork Paul....
Mark302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2013, 11:56 PM   #38
rojodiablo
My spawn kills on....
 
rojodiablo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca
Age: 53
Posts: 8,572
Re: Lobster Advisory Committee Meeting Outcome: 9/11/2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by shafe View Post
Paul. I remember you saying a while back that they are going to change the language so we will be able to POSSESS a speargun while we lobster dive, we just can't USE one to hook lobsters. Do you know when this new language will take effect? Do we have to wait until 2015/16?

Would be nice to know as we get closer to lobster season...
You can at this time. The wardens are good guys. Opening night; there will be confusion, as there always is. A lot of wardens are brought in from out of town, and are not quite as up to speed as our regular game wardens. So, on opening weekend, I might suggest you just bug it, or grab bugs and then grab the gun. For a shore dive, this is not so simple. My advice has always been, dive 'clean' and make sure your bugs are legal, and don't poke or prod them. If I am diving an area where I think I might see halibut?? I will bring a gun. If I am diving a rockpile with no hope of a flattie? I will leave the gun in the truck. Either way, I fill out my card, and look for lobster.
__________________
Safety is but an illusion; Every grain of sand was once a mountain. Every speck of dust..... was once a man. Nothing can stop this, in time. So use the time you have well..... you won't get it back.
rojodiablo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2013, 12:07 AM   #39
shafe
Registered User
 
shafe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Malibu & Santa Barbara
Age: 51
Posts: 625
Re: Lobster Advisory Committee Meeting Outcome: 9/11/2013

Thanks Paul. good words as always.
shafe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2013, 12:00 PM   #40
xiv014
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 18
Re: Lobster Advisory Committee Meeting Outcome: 9/11/2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by rojodiablo View Post
My first 2 proposals are aimed at illegal commercialization as a primary factor. Secondary is diver safety. Third is navigational safety improvement.
I humbly suggest that illegal commercialization is a criminal matter. Any proposals to address illegal commercialization should come from law enforcement, not recreational divers.

Furthermore, what data are these proposals based on? How much illegal commercialization takes place today? How much will it be reduced if your proposals are adopted?


Quote:
Originally Posted by rojodiablo View Post
My 3rd proposal is aimed at the future of hoop netting, and allowing for growth in the sport without overcrowding certain areas, like breakwalls. Furthermore, if the growth were to stay near the levels it has been for the last 10 years, the volume of fishermen, their take, and the illegal take that comes along with it will need to be addressed.
By cutting the number of hoops allowed, this will relieve pressure for quite a few years, and at that time, management assessments will be able to take up the slack, and if there is a need for corrections on gear restrictions, then it can be addressed.
I would rather see the fishery remain open to all who wish to go after lobster. I really do not want to see a system of lottery draws or first come, first served lobster cards. To achieve this in the future will mean we have to look at options of how to maintain the recreational fishery, while accounting for growth.
Everyone want the lobster fishery to remain healthy. The lobster fishery is stable. Look at the data for yourself:

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/marine/lobsterfmp/assessment.asp


Freedivers should not be proposing rules that only effect hoop netters. How would you feel if a hoop netter proposed a lower bag limit for freedivers?

We should work together in order to protect our common fishery and prevent over-regulation. Right now it feels like each group is trying to increase their share of fishery at the expense of the other. The only interest that wins in that game is the DFW, who get an increased budget with all of these regulations.

http://www.opc.ca.gov/webmaster/ftp/...inylobFMP_.pdf
xiv014 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2013, 12:16 PM   #41
jondavies
Registered User
 
jondavies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 537
Re: Lobster Advisory Committee Meeting Outcome: 9/11/2013

Many thanks to all who helped represented our interests!

It's great to hear that Claudette is doing such a great job on this - she's awesome
jondavies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2013, 12:24 PM   #42
mikelb
Registered User
 
mikelb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: HB, CA
Posts: 1,135
Re: Lobster Advisory Committee Meeting Outcome: 9/11/2013

xiv014, really?
__________________
Actually, yes, that yt is almost 30#'s. Hell, it's almost as big as me!
mikelb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2013, 03:09 PM   #43
Kelsea
judge of my domain
 
Kelsea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,049
Re: Lobster Advisory Committee Meeting Outcome: 9/11/2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by xiv014 View Post
I will falsify my lobster card data to spite the bureaucrat who came up with this ill-conceived plan.
That will not help us. That will not help any of the arguments you are making in this thread regarding data.

Remember: Garbage in, garbage out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xiv014 View Post
Freedivers should not be proposing rules that only effect hoop netters.
Incorrect. That is not how committees comprised of different user groups work. Yes, freedivers (and divers in general) have already had to make compromises to rules that affect only us.

From the link you posted, I am not sure if you READ it clearly:

" Hoop nets have become popular in the recreational fishery since
approximately 2005. By 2007, hoop nets
accounted for 80 percent of the
fished gear based on a bight-wide recreat
ional creel survey. Over this
short period of time, the more efficient conical hoop net was also
introduced and is becoming the net des
ign of choice among recreational
fishermen. Recent lobster report card
results suggest that the recreational
take adds an additional 30 to 60 percent to the commercial catch. "

Thats 30-60% of:

"The commercial fishery has consistently harvested 660,000 lbs (300+
metric tons) each season. "

So, of that recreational take that makes up that 30-60%, hoopnets take up a significant volume.

Other important facts:

"However, the (recreational)
cards do not include the number of nets
used, nor the amount of time
spent fishing. "

"The recreational hoopnet fishery represents the greatest unknown facing this assessment, in that hoop netting has only become popular in the last few years, and manufacturers in this time period have introduced the more efficient conical form of the net. The recreational fishery has also moved from a being a predominately dive-basedfishery to one that is hoop net-based. Since we only just started
collecting data on the recreational fishery we have no
way of knowing where in this transition period we are.

We assume that we will eventually be dea
ling mostly with efficient, conical hoopnetting
across the bight. We are also seeing more
instances of charter boats running hoopnet
cruises."

Reference: https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.a...68&inline=true

Translation; data is insufficient, but tje data from hoopnetters in recent years has shown that this method of take is incredibly effective, with numbers that far exceed diver catches. With increasing popularity of hoopnetting, and more effective equipment, the data from 2011 with be a stark contrast to that of coming years.

The goal is to make rules that account for this growth.

Hence, the rule proposals made by the freedivers towards the hoopnetters. Bear in mind, many freedivers here also use hoopnets themselves, or their families do. These rules affect us too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xiv014 View Post
Cool! I didn't know that they tagged WSB at the hatchery. If I ever catch one I'll drop it off.
My guess is that you are pretty new to the sport in general, based on this post and a few others.

And thats OK. Its good that you are asking questions and participating.

But it would be nice to see a report from you with a dead fish.
__________________
onward

Last edited by Kelsea; 09-17-2013 at 03:22 PM.
Kelsea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2013, 03:22 PM   #44
laguna80
El Capitan
 
laguna80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: D.C.
Age: 40
Posts: 1,454
Re: Lobster Advisory Committee Meeting Outcome: 9/11/2013

lol Kelsea, you're almost too nice.
__________________
Put a pregnant woman in water and she becomes a human submarine.
laguna80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2013, 05:24 PM   #45
Rainney
Registered User
 
Rainney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 686
Re: Lobster Advisory Committee Meeting Outcome: 9/11/2013

I still don't understand the rush. It's a healthy fishery. Huge areas have been shut down forever. They think they are going to increase the return rate for
Lobster bs cards. Why not wait for some concrete info before acting?

This is not going to end well for us. When they have our guy convinced they need to add more regulations to stop poachers from breaking the regulations, we are screwed. The only question is how bad will it be. I am much more concerned with lobster fishing being regulated out of existince, then lobster being over fished. I am afraid my grandchildren will miss out on the joys of catching and eating fresh seafood. I hope I'm wrong, but it's not looking good.
Rainney is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
dfw, fmp, limits, lobster, regulations

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:59 AM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com