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Old 05-14-2018, 03:26 AM   #76
spearq8
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Originally Posted by Renejr83 View Post
Ermmesub mech on this D1, how can I get one of these?



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I have a couple of those but to be honest have never tried it. You can buy them directly from ermessub website. I had a similar trigger upgrade also from Meandros and tested that. With the Meandros the results were not so good and couldn't get good accuracy. I have a feeling the reason was that the line release was not releasing the line properly and somehow snagging and causing accuracy to suffer. You can check if line is snagging by using a low power shot ... say one band on rest tab ... and then firing. If the line snags that means on higher loads (where you don't see the line snagging) a lot of shaft velocity is going into unsnagging the line and it creates a drop in shaft velocity and poor accuracy.

I can understand why people might want to switch to a SS trigger with the Pathos 1 handle, but really I think that is not a good idea. Unlike with the D'Angelo 2 handle and the SS trigger, the plastic trigger on the D'Angelo 1 handle works perfect and you might be going a step backwards in this upgrade. I know the pin line release is a PIA, but at least the trigger pull is quite consistent.
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Old 05-14-2018, 05:29 AM   #77
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

D1 is IMO the most ergo handle I've tried. Trigger pull is always smooth and predictable even 5yrs in. Release works well until you want to do add a 2nd wrap of mono. I prefer mono over dyneema to avoid tangling and twisting.

Maj if you could do some pool testing of that mech on the D1 I think would be good. Not sure how I missed this mech on the Ermesub website haha but if it works well like all of his products I think will make the D1 even better outside of a modified grip.

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Old 05-14-2018, 05:38 AM   #78
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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I had a similar trigger upgrade also from Meandros and tested that. With the Meandros the results were not so good and couldn't get good accuracy. I have a feeling the reason was that the line release was not releasing the line properly and somehow snagging and causing accuracy to suffer.
Meandros has 2 mechs for D1 I believe. One has a pin style release and the one has a side release which is garbage as it is full-time spring loaded and doesn't actually release. Perhaps this is the one you are talking about.

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Old 05-30-2018, 03:16 PM   #79
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

To take the tread back to the double roller trigger.
Just came back from a a trip to the Azores and used the DR trigger all the time in my Sniper roller without a single issue! Worked flawlessly and I sure find it better than the original trigger.
I actually have no idea whether the front roller is actually rolling but with the load of the original bands and setup I am using this doesn’t seem a problem at all.
Would love to hear more reviews of users.


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Old 06-02-2018, 08:49 AM   #80
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Originally Posted by kodama View Post
To take the tread back to the double roller trigger.
Just came back from a a trip to the Azores and used the DR trigger all the time in my Sniper roller without a single issue! Worked flawlessly and I sure find it better than the original trigger.
I actually have no idea whether the front roller is actually rolling but with the load of the original bands and setup I am using this doesn’t seem a problem at all.
Would love to hear more reviews of users.


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If you like that trigger, wait till you try the new version! It is possible your front roller is rolling, but even if it is not the trigger will just act like a friction trigger. A friction trigger works and is how 99% of all triggers are made ... and if you fixed the back roller issue, it would be already much better than most friction triggers. But once you get the front roller working ... it is just a completely different level of accuracy.

In the meantime, I am trying to get a Long DR trigger working on a Pathos 1 handle. Still not finished but I have a perfect fit of mech to shaft already, and now it is just about reinforcing the handle with Carbon Fiber. The Pathos 1 handle is just a much better handle than the 2 and internally it has much more space to fit a full double roller trigger. I am trying to talk Mario into making a full sized DR trigger for the D'Angelo 1 handle. This would remove the restriction of having to work with only 7mm available for the sears of the D'Angelo 2 handle. This modded handle with DR trigger will be a good test bed and platform to compare to any pipe gun trigger to. I already know that the DR trigger can handle any load thrown at it.





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Old 06-13-2018, 01:08 AM   #81
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

I finished this project and must say it is very promising. Pipe guns can actually shoot very accurately if you have the handle shaped correctly and put in a good trigger. With a pipe gun there is much less stability as the mass is not there, thus trigger break timing is even more critical. I decided to go with the D'angelo 1 handle as it has a wide trigger box and thus wouldn't have to remove much material and do a lot of work. I had some problems in my pool test where there is a bottom channel that allows the trigger sear to go through. Original trigger sear is 5mm and the DR is 6mm. This made the tolerance really tight and need to file off more space for the trigger sear to move freely. But still managed to get very good tight group and good accuracy. I actually fixed that problem now and tried another set of shots without video and it works flawlessly now. Maybe will use that platform to test some of the bigger setups like 130cm pipe length and 8mm shaft. One thing for sure is that the trigger won't have any problems with higher loadings!

You can see the video of the test here

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Old 06-13-2018, 02:00 AM   #82
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

That's some serious sniping! And yes, I agree about the triggers of "most" of the pipe guns being crappy. Some brands are including better triggers now, but they are a minority.

Keep on testing Spearq8!
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:29 AM   #83
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

I fixed the trigger sticking problem last night and polished the trigger sear from the grinder marks I used when I shortened it. I think the grinder finish was also rough and scratching the edges of the trigger guard. Mario from ermessub was upset as it seemed like the trigger was having problems while the actual problem was the mod was a little sloppy and didn't make way for the trigger sear to move freely. Well now it moves absolutely free and trigger pull is buttery smooth. Will have to redo the test but I am pretty sure results will be as good if not better.
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Old 06-16-2018, 08:57 AM   #84
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

I would love to duplicate that d angelo 1 handle. What did you use to shape the handle? Ive watched a few of your videos on modifying the pathos handles but never tried. Also never worked with carbon fiber. How hard would this be for a first timer. I dont want to ruin a new handle.
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Old 06-26-2018, 01:02 AM   #85
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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I would love to duplicate that d angelo 1 handle. What did you use to shape the handle? Ive watched a few of your videos on modifying the pathos handles but never tried. Also never worked with carbon fiber. How hard would this be for a first timer. I dont want to ruin a new handle.
It was actually a lot more problematic than I thought. Initially I just dremelled slightly the inside to allow for the trigger to drop in. The plastic material is very soft so is quite easy to remove. But that made me worried that I might hurt the structural integrity of the handle, so I went with CF reinforcement. I had a problem fitting the loading pad as the plastic trigger cassette has a small curve while the DR trigger is straight on top ... so wouldn't fit and I had to cut the loading pad top and then reinforce that again with CF to keep it structurally sound. Another problem was the side pin that holds the trigger couldn't be used as I would have to drill through back of the trigger and wouldn't have enough to make a hole to hold on to ... so I attached the trigger (and loading pad) from top with a screw ... and formed a place for the 2 front mech arm screws with epoxy putty. Had I known this would have been so much work I would have probably not done this. I am trying to see if I can get Mario from Ermessub to do a full double roller drop in trigger for this handle that takes into consideration all the problems mentioned. I have the design on my computer and in simulation it is a simple drop in (even the loading pad works without modification). Actually for the loading pad it is possible to make one that is from SS plate ... that would look way cooler and probably wouldn't cost that much to make.
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Old 06-29-2018, 07:27 PM   #86
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
It was actually a lot more problematic than I thought. Initially I just dremelled slightly the inside to allow for the trigger to drop in. The plastic material is very soft so is quite easy to remove. But that made me worried that I might hurt the structural integrity of the handle, so I went with CF reinforcement. I had a problem fitting the loading pad as the plastic trigger cassette has a small curve while the DR trigger is straight on top ... so wouldn't fit and I had to cut the loading pad top and then reinforce that again with CF to keep it structurally sound. Another problem was the side pin that holds the trigger couldn't be used as I would have to drill through back of the trigger and wouldn't have enough to make a hole to hold on to ... so I attached the trigger (and loading pad) from top with a screw ... and formed a place for the 2 front mech arm screws with epoxy putty. Had I known this would have been so much work I would have probably not done this. I am trying to see if I can get Mario from Ermessub to do a full double roller drop in trigger for this handle that takes into consideration all the problems mentioned. I have the design on my computer and in simulation it is a simple drop in (even the loading pad works without modification). Actually for the loading pad it is possible to make one that is from SS plate ... that would look way cooler and probably wouldn't cost that much to make.
If Mario puts out a D1 DR I would buy that in a heart beat. There are few handles as comfortable as the D1. I actually prefer and use it without the loading pad. The handle as is fits perfectly in the Palm as if becoming an extension of your arm.

Did you remove and fill in with epoxy puddy the side pads when modifying it to your hand?

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Old 06-30-2018, 02:21 AM   #87
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Originally Posted by Renejr83 View Post
If Mario puts out a D1 DR I would buy that in a heart beat. There are few handles as comfortable as the D1. I actually prefer and use it without the loading pad. The handle as is fits perfectly in the Palm as if becoming an extension of your arm.

Did you remove and fill in with epoxy puddy the side pads when modifying it to your hand?

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I agree about the handle. As for how I modded the handle, I didn't have to do much as the distance from trigger to palm is perfect for me as is. I just added a little epoxy putty to the right side and of course most of the work is on the left side where I elevate my thumb up and put in a pad for my palm (like in my video). I actually think I used about half as much epoxy putty as I usually have to use on a Dangelo 2 handle. With the Dangelo 2 I have to completely remove the back of the handle that my palm cradles, so that my index finger can reach the trigger when I twist my palm to do my handle mod. I always am surprised when people will pay a lot of money to "upgrade" their Dangelo 1 handle and trigger to the much more expensive Dangelo 2 handle and SS trigger. I see that as a major "downgrade".
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Old 07-14-2018, 06:30 AM   #88
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

thanks for sharing Majd!
I have Mario's 'Long' DR mech in all my guns cept for my 'dinner' railgun. As the DR 'Pathos' mech hasnt worked out, am committed to slotting a full size DR mech into railgun handle, as you've done here, tho will be going with wood handle so have more real estate to play with. thanks for the tips!!!
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Old 07-17-2018, 03:17 PM   #89
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

It would be awesome if someone would design a custom majd style handle specifically for Ermes DR mech. It would be easy to assemble a pretty sweet "railgun" with a carbon barrel like a pathos laser carbon from spear america or a cuttle carbon barrel like the one they sell at benthic. slap in one of a few choice muzzles order some custom shafts from red tide and you have a "home made/assembled" sniping machine.
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Old 07-18-2018, 02:16 AM   #90
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

This mod really has been an eye opener even for me. I would have never thought that a light pipe gun could be controllable with accuracy equal to the best high mass wood guns. But seeing is believing. I have since put the gun through quite a lot of shots ... also put it with a 130 barrel and 8mm shaft at extremely high stretch. This is power equal or better than most tuna band guns (using 3 or 4 bands) of just a few years ago. The 130 setup easily passes the Tuna test at 6 meters and is really fun to shoot. Might be a little tip heavy with the 8mm shaft in the pool, but still very accurate and controllable. In saltwater things would be much better. I did this mod just to show that there is untapped potential when it comes to controlling guns with low power. Gun builders have a lot of data to base their builds on now. With a speargun, gun design is very important in getting good accuracy. With good accuracy you also get very high performance as good accuracy is only possible if shaft flight is very good. I always knew that pipe guns with a properly shaped handle could shoot extremely accurate ... but the weak point was always the trigger. You could polish the sears and get some nice shots ... but that was just a band aid fix as eventually the sears would scratch and totally screw up your accuracy.

By the way, I did a final test for this mod and had everything working really well. I would have liked a different muzzle to get better band and line management, but I think I can safely say that this modded gun is by far the best shooting pipe gun I have ever shot. When you have this sort of accuracy ... a fish immediately becomes a much larger target!

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