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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 02-09-2012, 11:36 PM   #16
chalkeye
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

Fair enough - to each their own, and I'm certainly not going to criticize someone for using a safety.

I'm of the school of thought that

a) it can offer a false sense of security
b) it's one more thing to think of / go wrong
c) one can implement a reasonable amount of safety by being mindful of the direction you point a gun in.

I just personally don't believe the increase in safety (general) from using a safety (switch) is that significant, and the downsides aren't worth it.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:58 PM   #17
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

Nice writeup, Pete. I've never quite understood the reluctance to having an operable safety on a gun and using it under the right conditions, in the right way. I have never seen anyone refuse to use a safety on a firearm, yet there is a great reluctance for some to use a safety under any circumstances on a speargun. The arguement that a safety causes you to miss a shot at a fish seems to me like blaming the spoon for making Rosie O'Donnell fat. To me a safety should be engaged while you prepare the gun to shoot and are in a position to hunt. If other divers are around, it means ready to shoot at a fish. Even if you are by yourself, there are lots of things that can and do go wrong while loading the gun that would be prevented by a safety that is engaged until the gun and the hunter are ready to hunt.
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Old 02-10-2012, 12:42 AM   #18
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

I agree that a safety can give a false sense of security ... at least on a speargun. I am all for safeties on firearms though. The best safety is to assume a loaded speargun gun is a continuously shooting laser and simply not to point or wave through anything that you would not want to hit. I have had to freak out a few times on my boat where guys with a fully loaded 3 band gun can't understand my paranoia at not accepting a safety as an excuse to have the gun loaded on the boat. It really doesn't take a big bump to have a gun go off with the safety on.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:35 AM   #19
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

The most dangerous element of the equation is the operator.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:48 AM   #20
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
I agree that a safety can give a false sense of security ... at least on a speargun. I am all for safeties on firearms though. The best safety is to assume a loaded speargun gun is a continuously shooting laser and simply not to point or wave through anything that you would not want to hit.
X2 to that.

I think their should be more emphasis on the trigger mechanisms on how much "bumps" it can take before releasing a loaded gun accidentally.

Accidents will happen, more likely while loading gun your finger might accidental push the trigger and the spear flys without warning...or maybe the spear may not be fully engaged and as you load the first band; the spear takes off...so in this sense...the only safety is a loaded (or while loading) gun is pointed to the blue.

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Old 02-10-2012, 06:01 AM   #21
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

In addition to pointing my gun in a safe direction and keeping my finger off the trigger, I always put the safety on whenever I come up on another diver in the water as an added layer of safety.

It is not just fingers that can pull triggers; kelp strands, stringers, and other things can do so as well. A sudden surge or movement on the part of the other diver can quickly result in a gun being pointed momentarily in an unsafe direction.

I would bet that there is not a diver on this board that has not at some point in his diving experience had his gun unintentionally pointed at another diver for a brief moment because of an unforeseen event, and if that occurs, then having the safety on as an additional layer of protection is a good thing.

When hunting my safety is always off, when other divers are in the area, it is always on.
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Old 02-10-2012, 08:13 AM   #22
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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But am I the only moron that has ever been thumped in the chest when a partially loaded gun discharged while loading the second or third band? Especially if hunting on scuba where there is a lot of dangly stuff that can accidentally hook the trigger.
Looks like you're alone on this one bro.

I'm with Yard Sale Josh on this one... safety switches only ever cost me fish. I remove them, load my gun in the water and only point it at intended targets.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:57 AM   #23
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

I think Tin Man is in the minority on this one for two reasons:

1) Only a small percentage of SCUBA shooters use a chest load style gun
2) An even smaller percentage have guns with a specific trigger mechanism that was prone to misfires in its original design configuration

edit: Reason 1 is my opinion - no data collection nor analysis was performed
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Last edited by Gary H; 02-11-2012 at 08:03 AM.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:44 PM   #24
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by Gary H View Post
I think Tin Man is in the minority on this one for two reasons:

1) Only a small percentage of SCUBA shooters use a chest load style gun
2) An even smaller percentage have guns with a specific trigger mechanism that was prone to misfires in its original design configuration
If those Cayman ET guns that misfired had safeties that refused to engage that should have been a warning that something was not quite right. Unfortunately some guns with short stroke slide button safeties on top of the grip and a moving sear pin for relatching the shaft tail (the sear tooth dips down out of the way) can have misleading indications. The safety has to be well engineering for tight clearances. Wally Potts and Jack Prodanovich went to considerable lengths to build quality safeties into their guns.

Last edited by popgun pete; 02-10-2012 at 07:21 PM. Reason: fixed the typo on "should"
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:54 PM   #25
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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X2 to that.

I think their should be more emphasis on the trigger mechanisms on how much "bumps" it can take before releasing a loaded gun accidentally.

Accidents will happen, more likely while loading gun your finger might accidental push the trigger and the spear flys without warning...or maybe the spear may not be fully engaged and as you load the first band; the spear takes off...so in this sense...the only safety is a loaded (or while loading) gun is pointed to the blue.

Ihab
This actually happened twice to me on my last dive trip. The shaft went flying as I was loading the bands. First time I thought maybe the spear wasn't engaged. The second time, I realized that my finger actually hit the trigger. It's never happened before. The reverse trigger mech putting the trigger directly underneath the shaft fins and low wood height is what i conclude was the reason. Just need to pay special attention when loading this type gun from now on.

Nothing but water in front of me btw.
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Old 02-10-2012, 05:56 PM   #26
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

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Originally Posted by Gary H View Post
I think Tin Man is in the minority on this one for two reasons:

2) An even smaller percentage have guns with a specific trigger mechanism that was prone to misfires in its original design configuration
I'm glad SOMEBODY remembers . . .
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:03 PM   #27
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

Ive seen and used a lot of different guns and the saftey on the seasniper reef guns is the best Ive seen. It is just like a safety on a land gun very simple and it works great.
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Old 02-10-2012, 08:03 PM   #28
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary H View Post
I think Tin Man is in the minority on this one for two reasons:

1) Only a small percentage of SCUBA shooters use a chest load style gun
2) An even smaller percentage have guns with a specific trigger mechanism that was prone to misfires in its original design configuration
As I used to say to our R & D guys: "In God we trust, but from you, I need to see the data". So, do you have some numbers to share, or are we just talking opinion disguised as facts? Seems to me that divers, regardless of whether they freedive or scuba, use the same mechs. Not sure where you get the idea that " Only a small percentage of SCUBA shooters use a chest load style gun", either. Can you enlighten us on how you came to those conclusions? I can'r tell from the mechs divers use whether they hip load or chest load, or whether they scuba, free dive, or both.

Last edited by Wood Guy; 02-10-2012 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:27 AM   #29
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

I wonder if it would be possible to make a "bump" proof safety on a speargun. I guess that would need to involve a modification of the shaft. Something like a firing pin on a grenade. Sort of like a pin would have to go through a hole in the shaft itself so that even with a hard bump or a pulled trigger the shaft would not physically be able to propel forward unless the pin was removed.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:31 AM   #30
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Re: Trigger safeties: To have or not to have

Safeties guarantee nothing.

However if you don't point your gun at your buddy this can't happen...

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Another good shot just showed up too for those with facebook...
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