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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 03-25-2017, 05:11 AM   #16
SubSub
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Re: About roller guns..

Damn! That's a good looking collection of carbon!
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Old 03-25-2017, 05:21 AM   #17
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Re: About roller guns..

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Originally Posted by jstiver09 View Post
Seal, I have released video along with many others showing data that completely contradicts what you say. Majd and Peterislame both posted video of your roller shooting, and the results were less than impressive. In fact, the only roller gun I have seen in video and used personally that I thought looked good was the Alemanni. But Vamforce nailed it above, it gets to a point that guns become too complicated and unpractical. Please watch my videos of the Abellan Albacore 130 and Majds as well. Now please show me a roller gun that clearly outperforms that gun. If you do, I will buy it.


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I dont see any contradiction becouse I dont see any good slowmotion frames from the right angle in your tests.Any personаl data can be subjective,especially regarding shooting and aiming with speargun.Thats why I used data from other people who also deserve respect for their efforts.
You are talking about only one perticular model of my guns created 7 years ago,and I have 10 different models now,wich Im building completely alone with bare hands,making everything as my spearfishing practice shows me.
I dont know what you mean 'less than impressive',since that gun passed the dreamed Majds 6 meter penetration test and put 5 shots in one hole,althought a little lower than he is used to shoot with Abellans.And this is with 8 by only 160 shaft.
Here are some SUBJECTIVE less than impressive tests from 6 years ago with the same gun.These are 4 serial shots with 8 by 170 hand made shaft and a hand made sliptip on 10 sm XPS board.And this is simple one stage loading of twin 16 mm bands,I bet faster than the Albacore.The target was new and almost clean,you can even count the holes in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iMZmf4z0gQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iiquq06jJJs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYEutW2bm-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtktOdlMCY

Then I made these tests for myself and my friends,not to show them in public.So you are not obliged to believe or comment...
By the way in the moment i have new things to show really in public.Just need some patience.I want to break that myth for complicated rollers,difficult to load and use.
Rollers can be clean,simple enough,easy to load and verry smooth.To shoot such gun and not expect a horse kick is a pleasure.This gives confidence and better accuracy,especially for people who doesnt shoot hundred times every day.
The fact that a rollergun has couple of parts more than other guns doesnt mean its complicated.I firearm has 100 more parts but people still commend their lifes on them.

Last edited by seal77; 03-25-2017 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 03-25-2017, 07:29 AM   #18
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Re: About roller guns..

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Originally Posted by Fat Larry View Post
So i've not tried a roller yet but was watching a video by adreno in australia recently where it was said that a roller allowed a diver to use a shorter gun as they're more powerful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llSylt6bXGg

Seems incorrect to me, as i understood it power came down to band configuration/stretch and barrel length only affected range??

So does a roller allow you to apply more band stretch? Are they more powerful?
I cringed watching that video, it seems like that guy works for or is sponsored by adreno. They have some great videos on their channel by a fellow named Trevor but this video seemed to be aimed at selling rollerguns more so than educating spearos on rollers themselves. A disservice to the brand in my opinion
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Old 03-25-2017, 08:34 AM   #19
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Re: About roller guns..

I was looking at Captain Bly's videos of his 50" single band roller and it seems to shoot really well. However, it isn't pool shooting, it's killing fish. The videos are on his Instagram.
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Old 03-25-2017, 08:48 AM   #20
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Re: About roller guns..

Nice Tests Seal. That's 2011.. I know you've learned a Lot since then too.

Yes. Those VideoOcean tests were great. I wonder if they will do a repeat to show improvements? Isn't there a Pool Shooting Championships in Europe?

I have trolled a number of the Italian and Greek forums, and there are a bunch of claims which use video/sound to show some very high Shaft Speeds from Rollers. 30mtr/sec+

One day it will happen.. I've heard over and over about how there's no video test showing a Rollergun outperforming a Classic banded gun in a controlled Static Test.. I've also never seen a Controlled Static Test of a good 4-5 Band Gun tuned up for Tuna shooting 35'. But... one day someone will take the time and document and then it show how silly some of this has been..
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Old 03-25-2017, 09:02 AM   #21
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Re: About roller guns..

Popgun pete. Is there a rule of thumb when stepping up in both shaft and band thickness for a roller?
I have a 110 roller gun (carbon barrel) with 7mm shaft and 16mm bands.

Do the standard principles apply for upgrading to a thicker 18mm/20mm band and a 7.5mm shaft (i.e. Cutting the rubber at half the length of the barrel after adding 5cm in length)
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Old 03-25-2017, 12:07 PM   #22
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Re: About roller guns..

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Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
Nice Tests Seal. That's 2011.. I know you've learned a Lot since then too.

Yes. Those VideoOcean tests were great. I wonder if they will do a repeat to show improvements? Isn't there a Pool Shooting Championships in Europe?

I have trolled a number of the Italian and Greek forums, and there are a bunch of claims which use video/sound to show some very high Shaft Speeds from Rollers. 30mtr/sec+

One day it will happen.. I've heard over and over about how there's no video test showing a Rollergun outperforming a Classic banded gun in a controlled Static Test.. I've also never seen a Controlled Static Test of a good 4-5 Band Gun tuned up for Tuna shooting 35'. But... one day someone will take the time and document and then it show how silly some of this has been..
Jon, you were the one who said your 5 band tuna gun could easily shoot 35' though 5" thick foam accurately without shooting on a downward angle. You said this after we posted the Albacore shooting 25' with 3 bands and an 8.7mm shaft. Before we did the test, all we heard was mocking that it was not possible. You even said that 25' was the range where you can call a gun a "tuna" gun. Since you are the one who has everything to gain by proving that a 5 band speargun is still a relevant thing and that it is worth lugging a 12 pound chunk of wood around to offset the recoil from the 5 bands, why don't YOU do the test? Last we heard you were going to have your buddy put together a thick foam target and get some video of your gun shooting 35'...this was about a year ago. What happened. You made it seem like it was a sure thing...

I don't mind being proven wrong. I just want to use the gun that shoots the furthest and most accurate, while still being as maneuverable and easy loading/simple as possible. I just hear so much noise and babble without any simple proof.
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Old 03-25-2017, 12:20 PM   #23
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Re: About roller guns..

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Originally Posted by seal77 View Post
By the way in the moment i have new things to show really in public.Just need some patience.I want to break that myth for complicated rollers,difficult to load and use.
Rollers can be clean,simple enough,easy to load and verry smooth.To shoot such gun and not expect a horse kick is a pleasure.This gives confidence and better accuracy,especially for people who doesnt shoot hundred times every day.
The fact that a rollergun has couple of parts more than other guns doesnt mean its complicated.I firearm has 100 more parts but people still commend their lifes on them.
I hope you are successful in your new designs. Please take the time to do some comprehensive tests and show potential buyers that it is in fact capable of what you say.
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Old 03-25-2017, 01:01 PM   #24
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Re: About roller guns..

Justin you're always so confrontational, and always twisting things around.

Today I'm making 4 band guns. You can use them with 3 or 4 bands. These weigh 10lbs. This is how they shoot.
https://vimeo.com/205819907?ref=fb-share&1 https://vimeo.com/206671038?ref=fb-share

Those guns were made in here a month or so ago. First time they used them. I don't have a good video of a Pool Test on this exact model, but when I set it up for Tuna it does whack targets at 30'. In the above two videos I had the guns set up with 4 bands at lower stretch but very smooth release, not for max distance we would use for Big Eye and YFT up here.

Seal looking forward to see your next creation.
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Old 03-25-2017, 01:34 PM   #25
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About roller guns..

I seem confrontational only because I try to stay off of these threads but my BS meter gets too full to do so. Curious, if you haven't pool tested those guns, how do you know they can "whack targets at 30'"? Showing a video of a 12' stone shot doesn't prove that at all. Also, what did I twist around?


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Old 03-25-2017, 01:43 PM   #26
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Re: About roller guns..

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstiver09 View Post
I hope you are successful in your new designs. Please take the time to do some comprehensive tests and show potential buyers that it is in fact capable of what you say.
Thank you! I have prooved many things during the years,basicly for myself and our small local society,since building guns is not my main business(still) and Im not looking for glorry or becoming rich from spearguns.
My primary target was to increase my eficiency of hard spearfishing in Mediteranean by encreasing eficiency of the guns,not only the personal skills. And I think I managed to do this my way.I have dived in several places arrownd the world,but trust me the Mediteranean is haaard...
The easyest way was just to copy some famous European brands and save lots of efforts,I could take the best from all,but there always was missing something.All these things took me to the present situation.
The idea was to create a light slim design gun that shoots a heavy shaft comfortably,without recoil and with repetitive grouping of the shots in variable conditions nearly 30 m\s.More than that the shafts we are using become unstable.Folowing that idea I made and tested quite a lot different models and systems,finaly today i stick to one.
People who know closer my work will judge did I manage or not.
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Old 03-25-2017, 04:16 PM   #27
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Re: About roller guns..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
Justin you're always so confrontational, and always twisting things around.

Today I'm making 4 band guns. You can use them with 3 or 4 bands. These weigh 10lbs. This is how they shoot.
https://vimeo.com/205819907?ref=fb-share&1 https://vimeo.com/206671038?ref=fb-share

Those guns were made in here a month or so ago. First time they used them. I don't have a good video of a Pool Test on this exact model, but when I set it up for Tuna it does whack targets at 30'. In the above two videos I had the guns set up with 4 bands at lower stretch but very smooth release, not for max distance we would use for Big Eye and YFT up here.

Seal looking forward to see your next creation.
What shaft size is used and how many bands were on this gun?
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Old 03-26-2017, 12:47 AM   #28
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Re: About roller guns..

I shoot a single band roller gun. It works for me. I enjoy it.

I think 20 or 21 of 22 kills in this video are on said roller.

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Old 03-26-2017, 07:54 AM   #29
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Re: About roller guns..

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Originally Posted by aussie View Post
I shoot a single band roller gun. It works for me. I enjoy it.

I think 20 or 21 of 22 kills in this video are on said roller.

http://youtu.be/_qB9Z68pGIo
How long is that gun?I suppose its loaded with one 16 mm band?
I fair comparing test would be to change the roller muzzle with a single 16 mm band.And see if its able to penetrate those sweet fishes.I bet not...becouse i have tried it
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Old 03-26-2017, 08:45 AM   #30
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Re: About roller guns..

Mr. G, those guns can be used with 3 or 4 bands depending on how tight you want to tie the bands. Those are 68" Threaded (+ 4-5" for Slip Tip) 8.75mm shafts. They carry a lot of KE... 90lb Wahoo Skulls are thick. But those guns were made more specifically for Longer shots on Yellowfin and Big Eye Tuna.

Seal it would be a more fair comparison to compare that to a 2 banded classic gun? I figure might be a fair comparison to a 140cm total length 2 banded gun running 2 x 16mm bands and a 5/16" Shaft? As a point of reference we can get good range and accuracy @ 22'+ from the muzzle using such a gun.

Justin. Why you always Fat Shaming everyone? What do you care if guys like to use Classic American Wooden Mid Handles? Not everyone is diving 150'. Those Mid Handles are great, Stable, Simple, Consistent, platforms which are proven to put the MEAT on the deck. We also make some nice Slimmer Rear Handles. But man if they weigh one lb more than what you are using you'll be jumping around like Richard Simmons.

Last edited by Behslayer; 03-26-2017 at 08:58 AM.
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