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Old 07-03-2019, 04:46 PM   #31
Diverboy067
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Re: Got Boarded By Marine Patrol at 17 Miles Offshore

The law is very clear on your possession and bag limit, may not like it, but it is what it is. That have made it easy on the website where you can click on a picture of the fish and it will give you the seasons, along with Gulf and Atlantic limits and per person and aggregate bag limits.

Yes. I use to remember the days when it was 6 lobsters per person or 24 per boat, which ever was greater, and 2 people would go out pulling a dingy behind their boat and claim they had 2 boats and took 48 between them. Sorry, I'm not with you on this one. I'm all for personal limits with each and every person that is being counted in the on board fish numbers to be actively hunting.
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:20 PM   #32
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Re: Got Boarded By Marine Patrol at 17 Miles Offshore

Laws tend to be framed for easy enforcement, especially in this context, by the investigating officers. No judgement calls or interpretation allowed for, just what it says there in black and white on the page. The rules may then ere on being unreasonable in some circumstances, but that is because past behaviours show people manipulate the rules to their advantage and therefore definitions are broadly inclusive to forestall such actions and stratagems. In some countries if a speargun is in the boat then the fish is deemed to have been speared whether it was caught on a line or not, which is bad news if that species can only be caught with conventional fishing tackle. Consequently spearguns are not taken on those boats.
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Old 07-04-2019, 04:19 AM   #33
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Re: Got Boarded By Marine Patrol at 17 Miles Offshore

The law is the Law.. and I abide by it.. just think its a little ridiculous on some rules.. just IMO...If I was the law I would change several things for sure..
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:16 PM   #34
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Re: Got Boarded By Marine Patrol at 17 Miles Offshore

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Originally Posted by Diverboy067 View Post
The law is very clear on your possession .
BS. Otherwise, this thread wouldn't exist.
In my experience, noobs will shoot a few undersized ones, beat themselves up, and quickly calibrate their eye site. Poaching agendas are quickly exposed and not tolerated in my presence.
IMO, they muddy the law/language on purpose such that the common man can't easily navigate thru it and so they may dictate their interpretation of it for their benefit...expecting the sheepish public to pay the fine instead of fighting it in court with costly resources.
They write laws on top of laws on top of laws...not even realizing that they're duplicates. It's a massive bureaucratic monster that requires more of the citizens resources to stay alive and grow. They're creating new laws everyday and slapping themselves on the back..but you rarely ever hear of a law getting repealed.
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Old 07-04-2019, 07:09 PM   #35
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Re: Got Boarded By Marine Patrol at 17 Miles Offshore

I marked my Battle Axe speargun. First time in over 40 years of doing this sport. I started out when gag limits were 10 per person per day. The "old timers" told me of when there weren't any size or quantity limits. Now, I'm an "old timer". It was a challenge to "limit out" in 1 dive on 10 gags. Only, "limit out" challenge today on 1 dive. Is mangoes in federal waters. At least, I got to spear in the "Golden Spearfishing Era". How many of you remember the day gags went from 10/day/person to 5/day/person to now 2/person/day? How many of you were even born?
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:31 AM   #36
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Re: Got Boarded By Marine Patrol at 17 Miles Offshore

Late 50s for me gags were everywhere no fathometers or navigation. Soap stone and land cuts. Started Tampa bay area. Navy 60-80 retired in Pensacola. Still diving, gags should be regulated like snapper and snapper should be opened again later in year. Flounder should be completely shut down for 3 years in October, November and December. Just my opinion. Lets hear yours??

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Old 07-05-2019, 05:36 AM   #37
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Re: Got Boarded By Marine Patrol at 17 Miles Offshore

Here's a Soap Stone. I found this on the Dutch Bank 2 years ago. The old days fathometer.

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Old 07-07-2019, 03:32 PM   #38
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Re: Got Boarded By Marine Patrol at 17 Miles Offshore

I was told about this thread today and was asked to take a look.

The term I have heard used in the past, and like speargunking, don't particularly agree with, is that "co-mingling" of limits is not allowed.

So if you are the diver that is not seeing fish, or just happened to draw the short straw that day and not drop on fish, or is 14 and just learning to spearfish, or just are not good at shooting fish yet......hope someone else drops in with you, shoots fish for you and puts them on your stringer (as long as Law enforcement is not underwater observing you) and that way you can legally get your share for the day. After all, you still kicked in for fuel and for lunch and all that.

OR Us spear fisher folks could be treated exactly like fisher folks and the cooler for the boat is treated like......wait for it......the cooler for the boat (as it typically is exactly that, with even division amongst the friendly recreational crew (FISHER or SPEARFISHER) that was assembled to go out and have a nice day. You know, where we can keep gag grouper for the 7 months of the year that they are open, and ARS for the 31 days they are open or AJ's for the 18 minutes they are open.....all weather permitting of course)

The rules for targeting and hunting fish should be applied equally. Fisherman co-mingle limits in the group boat cooler. If they are allowed to hold a short fish on the deck of the boat with a hole in it, so should I. Judging the return unharmed is subjective. Both of us have put a hole in the fish. A gut hooked fish (circle hook or not) would still be a dead short fish once released back into the water. To say the fisherman is not responsible for that but the spearo is on a short that is shot and tossed...?

Fan of rules, we need them. Fan of shooting big fish, I dive a lot, so of course. Bigger fan of equity, common sense, and consistent enforcement.

Last edited by Dbrown; 07-07-2019 at 03:34 PM. Reason: .
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Old 07-07-2019, 03:56 PM   #39
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Re: Got Boarded By Marine Patrol at 17 Miles Offshore

One of the big advantages of spearfishing is selectivity. That means we can generally identify the species and the size of the fish and compare it to the regulations (with respect to size and season) etc. This selectivity helps us to make the claim that there is little to no by-catch with our gear type.

Hook and line (and most other fishing means) lack the same degree of selectivity.

Therefore, since they can not easily prevent the wrong species or the wrong size from taking the hook, it seems obvious that they need to be provided the opportunity to attempt to return the "illegal" fish to the water.

We all know that barotrauma, exhaustion and waiting predators can result in a very high mortality rate for H&L "discards", but I don't see a whole lot of choice.

Spearfisherman DO have a choice. We can be selective.

I don't feel that a spearfisherman discarding a speared fish from the boat deck as equivalent to a hook and line fisherman doing that.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I am certainly not claiming that I've never had to discard a short fish that I shot, but the two gear types are different and the regulations should probably reflect that difference.
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Old 07-07-2019, 04:28 PM   #40
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Re: Got Boarded By Marine Patrol at 17 Miles Offshore

Understand the differences jfjf as you and others have previously commented on.

The interpretation of the law that is imposed/enforced upon recreational harvesters should not be different for a spearfisherman vs fisherman is what I am saying.

Now if us "more selective" gatherers had a different rule for how many gags we could keep, or hogs we could keep etc, (I mean we are the crazy ones right? At risk for getting bit and all. PLUS we are the only ones doing something to deplete the invasive and concerning lionfish population.....so clearly we deserve something for that right?!)

Nope, same law limits for how many fish we get to keep, so should be consistent enforcement for ALL the other rules and behaviors.

Last edited by Dbrown; 07-07-2019 at 04:42 PM. Reason: .
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Old 07-07-2019, 04:32 PM   #41
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Re: Got Boarded By Marine Patrol at 17 Miles Offshore

Problems arise from uneducated or unscrupulous divers and uneducated or biased LEOs meeting on the water.
I had FMP upset how we filled two 172 qt coolers with fish,lobster and stone crab claws by noonish in the keys.I had a SPL at the time and 3 other spearfishermen on the boat.He was upset because he was working and him and his brother were also spearfishing nuts.His brother pulled us over later to see the carnage.Nice guys and very polite and professional.
I got boarded by Elliot key and got raked over the coals from a undercover FMP officer.Got a long speech how spearfishermen were raping the area and wasting fish.I no longer had a SPL so typically just shot enough to fill a 72 qt cooler and go explore the flats and flyfish.Fish were all well over the minimum size yet he had to do his little tirade.I pointed out about it being a lobster sanctuary and there were tickle sticks,nets and lobster parts everywhere yet he had a hardon for the legal guy.
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Old 07-07-2019, 04:37 PM   #42
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Re: Got Boarded By Marine Patrol at 17 Miles Offshore

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Understand the differences jfjf as you and others have previously commented on.

The interpretation of the law that is imposed/enforced upon recreational harvesters should not be different for a spearfisherman vs fisherman is what I am saying.
Every year the politicians make things worse for everyone by passing laws based on feeling or votes paid for by certain lobbies.
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Old 07-07-2019, 05:01 PM   #43
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Re: Got Boarded By Marine Patrol at 17 Miles Offshore

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I marked my Battle Axe speargun. First time in over 40 years of doing this sport. I started out when gag limits were 10 per person per day. The "old timers" told me of when there weren't any size or quantity limits. Now, I'm an "old timer". It was a challenge to "limit out" in 1 dive on 10 gags. Only, "limit out" challenge today on 1 dive. Is mangoes in federal waters. At least, I got to spear in the "Golden Spearfishing Era". How many of you remember the day gags went from 10/day/person to 5/day/person to now 2/person/day? How many of you were even born?

I started spearfishing with a Hawaiian sling at 13 yrs old.I started diving off Dania and Hollywood beach with a big square of styrofoam(4x4 with a concrete anchor made from a margarine cup.
Conch was still legal to harvest and if you hunted right you could get nice quality grouper and snapper in about 20 ft of water.I worked part time as a mate on a drift boat so I was in no hurry to shoot the first thing that came along.
Years later I got a SPL (just walk in and pay,no limits,restriction on species)My dive buddy was adamant on quality not quantity.We were shooting a gun called a SMG with two barrels using a 22 charge.One barrel a spear the other a bangstick in 357.We were doing drift dives off miami in over 100 ft with a backpack,steel 72s and a old aqualung double hose regulator,hard ass US diver jet fins you had to wear sneakers to keep your feet from blistering.No BC,computers,gps,or comfortable anything.You came up with two big fish or would never hear the end of him cussing you in cuban for wasting a tank and gas.
Fun times.
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Old 07-07-2019, 05:33 PM   #44
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Re: Got Boarded By Marine Patrol at 17 Miles Offshore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbrown View Post
I was told about this thread today and was asked to take a look.

The term I have heard used in the past, and like speargunking, don't particularly agree with, is that "co-mingling" of limits is not allowed.

So if you are the diver that is not seeing fish, or just happened to draw the short straw that day and not drop on fish, or is 14 and just learning to spearfish, or just are not good at shooting fish yet......hope someone else drops in with you, shoots fish for you and puts them on your stringer (as long as Law enforcement is not underwater observing you) and that way you can legally get your share for the day. After all, you still kicked in for fuel and for lunch and all that.

OR Us spear fisher folks could be treated exactly like fisher folks and the cooler for the boat is treated like......wait for it......the cooler for the boat (as it typically is exactly that, with even division amongst the friendly recreational crew (FISHER or SPEARFISHER) that was assembled to go out and have a nice day. You know, where we can keep gag grouper for the 7 months of the year that they are open, and ARS for the 31 days they are open or AJ's for the 18 minutes they are open.....all weather permitting of course)

The rules for targeting and hunting fish should be applied equally. Fisherman co-mingle limits in the group boat cooler. If they are allowed to hold a short fish on the deck of the boat with a hole in it, so should I. Judging the return unharmed is subjective. Both of us have put a hole in the fish. A gut hooked fish (circle hook or not) would still be a dead short fish once released back into the water. To say the fisherman is not responsible for that but the spearo is on a short that is shot and tossed...?

Fan of rules, we need them. Fan of shooting big fish, I dive a lot, so of course. Bigger fan of equity, common sense, and consistent enforcement.
I have no problem with spearfishing and the boat co-mingling the limits in the cooler IF each person on the boat that is being counted in the numbers is actively spearfishing and trying to shoot fish. The problem is when people fill the boat with people that are not spearfishing, but have a license, and are being counted in the numbers. Yes, it is a numbers game and you may be dropped on a site that is fishy and get your limits of a species in one dive while the next person may be dropped on a nice area, but not many shootable fish and only comes back with one hog....then co-mingling is ok. Just make sure that you don't have more than YOUR limit on you in the water at one time (if your limit of hogfish is five, don't have seven on your stringer).

I know someone that usually goes to S FL for lobster mini season and they have a friend with a large cabin cruiser type boat. They will fill the boat with 10-12 people that all have licenses, but never put on mask/fins and get in the water once. They leave the big boat anchored and the two of them will take a small boat and run around gathering lobsters and bring them back to the big boat and they took 178 lobsters between the two of them last mini season....that I have a problem with. I have no problem with two guys going out, or even five, and all of them hunting and coming back with the limit between them....it's the one's that are abusing it that I have a problem with.
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:53 PM   #45
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Cool Re: Got Boarded By Marine Patrol at 17 Miles Offshore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbrown View Post
Understand the differences jfjf as you and others have previously commented on.

The interpretation of the law that is imposed/enforced upon recreational harvesters should not be different for a spearfisherman vs fisherman is what I am saying.

Now if us "more selective" gatherers had a different rule for how many gags we could keep, or hogs we could keep etc, (I mean we are the crazy ones right? At risk for getting bit and all. PLUS we are the only ones doing something to deplete the invasive and concerning lionfish population.....so clearly we deserve something for that right?!)

Nope, same law limits for how many fish we get to keep, so should be consistent enforcement for ALL the other rules and behaviors.

Well we get an extra lobster or something if you kill extra lionfish LOL.

I remember when they were talking about closing down an entire fishery (of grouper maybe?) simply because the unintended by-catch and mortality associated with release of Red Snapper. I think some spearfisherman, then lobbied the logical conclusion that since spearfisherman could avoid any (all) unintended red snapper mortality, that spearfishing would logically be allowed to stay open, while hook and line would be closed.

My recollection is pretty fuzzy, but it never came to that as I recall.

Uniform enforcement would be nice, but we all know that spearfisherman are profiled and targeted by LEO, we've all seen evidence of that many times I think.
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