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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here! |
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08-17-2019, 09:47 AM | #166 | ||
The Stalker
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules
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08-17-2019, 04:48 PM | #167 | |
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules
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I have about 5 guns for different jobs, although the gun rack contains a few more than that. Too many guns and your shooting goes off as practice makes perfect when you put the time in on different guns. For target practice I shoot fish as I don’t have access to a pool. Last edited by popgun pete; 08-17-2019 at 04:56 PM. |
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08-18-2019, 03:22 AM | #168 |
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules
The Abbiller guns are perfect if used as setup by factory. I have bought and owned over 20 Abbiller guns and I have one Teak Ltd. 60" that has more fish caught with it than all of my other guns combined. Those were the best guns at the time (about 25 years ago) and fish were much more plentiful and easier to get close to. Of course those guns have limitations and like everything else, things improve incrementally and those increments add up to quite a lot. I have seen quite a few people try and push their Abbiller guns to match today's high performance setups … but that is dangerous and will not get you anywhere. In my testing, I was only able to gain about 10% or 20% over the default factory setups ... and even then that caused a heavier trigger pull and problems with slide ring lodging in the slide ring stopper. When I took the trigger apart I realized that it was already setup at max and should not be pushed harder. The Abbiller guns will still catch plenty of fish and even today I can see myself using one if I would scuba dive oil rigs and use Kevlar line (with slide ring you have zero band tangles no matter what line you use) … but for freediving in relatively clear water, where you need high accuracy and very fast flat shooting shafts … you are going to be severely handicapped.
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08-18-2019, 04:25 PM | #169 | |
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules
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The "Sea Hornet" mech, in its original form, was invented by Wally Gibbins for his own shoulder gun that was powered by two 3/4" bands and later in slimmed down form was the basis for the mass produced "Sea Hornet". As for shooting line tangles the line running back to the shaft tab or shaft cross drilling means that the line has to double up on itself as the spear tail reaches the muzzle. The longer that loop is, which can be nearly the length of the spear, it can then potentially lasso gun elements on the way out of the gun. Last edited by popgun pete; 08-18-2019 at 04:49 PM. Reason: more info |
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08-21-2019, 10:32 AM | #170 | |
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules
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09-14-2019, 01:22 AM | #171 |
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules
Popgun: So what would you consider to be the optimum design goals of a speargun trigger, in order of importance?
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09-14-2019, 03:00 AM | #172 | |
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules
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If it gets gunk in it (sand, marine detritus) then brandishing the gun through the water by holding the front end of the gun a few times gets it out, preferably not ever pointing the business end at yourself and for safety unhook the bands first. Drop a loaded gun on a sandy wave washed bottom and you will know what I am talking about. In the worst cases I had to take the gun apart later and on the day grab another gun. Always have a second gun. |
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09-16-2019, 09:21 AM | #173 | |
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules
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I recently shortened the bands in a Bucanero II gun (inverted mech, all metal) and noticed how the trigger got much harder to pull... accuracy goes out the window... |
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09-30-2019, 05:50 PM | #174 |
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules
For interest the Omer "Invictus" reverse trigger mechanism which has been squeezed into the maximum space in the handle, the sear pivot pin just making it into the rear of the grip molding envelope.
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11-25-2019, 08:19 AM | #175 |
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules
Just had a look at the latest iteration of the Rob Allen "Vecta" trigger. The sliding safety is now more discriminating as it blocks further away from the trigger pivot pin. The sear lever cannot over rotate and bust the bottom of the trigger off because a zig-zag element hits a stop located in front of the sear lever pivot pin first. The trigger is molded acetyl with kevlar reinforcement.
Last edited by popgun pete; 11-27-2019 at 04:36 PM. |
11-28-2019, 03:50 PM | #176 | |
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules
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P.S. Found an image of what was available as a spare part, so here is the answer. https://www.scubastore.com/scuba-div...er/137106648/p Last edited by popgun pete; 11-28-2019 at 04:09 PM. |
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12-16-2019, 10:21 AM | #177 |
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Trigger Mechanism Design Rules
@Popgun Pete
I would love to see you discuss the (very long) reverse trigger that is installed on Seals 130 gun you bought! It is located so far back that it almost reminds me of a remote trigger you find on mid-handles. I suppose we could decrease overall speargun length by elongating the trigger sear even more and having the spear end going all the way back into the loading butt. It will make loading hot bands more challenging but it would still be possible with the under-the-leg-loading-technique. With the understanding of trigger physics combined with a nice double roller design I could envision some gains in overall length. Anyway please discuss the trigger including pictures once you have received the gun. I would certainly appreciate your effort. |
12-16-2019, 12:04 PM | #178 |
Shooter & Shooter
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules
My take on extremely long triggers is that they don't make much sense if you chest load... My thinking is that each of us has a minimum distance we need from rear-most fin to the loading butt in order to actually be able to load the gun. For me, without years of band gun experience, it's around 6 inches or 15cm with hot bands.
And this means that if I build a gun, I can just go for the shortest Ermes roller and move the position of it in the blank such that I hit those 15cm - so that I can load the gun. In the case of a 15cm "limit", the handle would still end up a fair bit in front of the loading butt so the overall length of the gun stays the same, no disadvantage from a short trigger there. BUT short triggers also have the advantage that you can place the whole mech "inside" the grip and really raise your hand very high up into the stock. Just look at a C4 which might have the highest handle/grip position out there and that gun actually has a very short trigger. As for Seal's gun above, in my eyes the main feature of that extremely long trigger is indeed that the handle moves forward a fair bit. But I would think it's much easier building a well-functioning trigger the shorter the trigger is, so not sure having a rear+ handle position makes up for the (assumed) increase in potential trigger issues. Last edited by Diving Gecko; 12-17-2019 at 10:01 AM. |
12-16-2019, 03:22 PM | #179 | |
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules
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DG is right, if you push the spear tail latching point too far back then the gun becomes harder to load as your hands are too close to your body as you drop the wishbone in. Spearfishermen are all shapes and sizes, they are not peas in a pod and nor are their guns if they optimize their design for their own purposes. If I want a longer wishbone draw then I make the gun longer rather than swap out the trigger mechanism for a reverse mech. Longer projectiles increase striking power down range and aiming estimation errors are decreased, so conditions and prey require a variety of weapons as ideally you want to stop your victim in its tracks whenever you find it offering a good shot opportunity. |
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12-16-2019, 10:42 PM | #180 |
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Re: Trigger Mechanism Design Rules
Although a bit more metalwork is involved a reverse trigger mech with a floor under the spear tail would be an improvement and a slightly longer sear box roof, that way the sear lever tooth pulling out from the spear tail notch cannot move the tail around or make it hop out of the mechanism’s throat. If you never use the rearmost spear tail attachment hole then a more enclosed mouth can be realised, particularly with tabbed shafts. That rectangular mouth on euroguns is a throwback to the time when the stop lugs for line slides were at the rear end of the shaft, which under some circumstances caused the tail to be snapped off at the wishbone notches when something large was attempting to escape.
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