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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 08-31-2017, 08:23 PM   #76
Behslayer
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Re: reverse mechs... tell me why again?

One constructive criticism from a Builders perspective. If that Trigger were a little longer customers could file it down to their needs. Not everyone is going to go to the mm to get the clearance that trigger length requires. I always expect to cut back a Neptonics Trigger Sear. That's just part of the process. You should see the hand size of some of the customers. Sausage Fingers, 30 years dragging nets.. and in Gloves.
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:44 AM   #77
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Re: reverse mechs... tell me why again?

If you have a trigger that is working well then you certainly should not change it. If it works don't fix it.

Mass should be a personal preference rather than a necessity for a gun to shoot well. If I can take any gun with me on a trip ... I always prefer a nice wood or CF gun with some mass on it ... it is just much smoother to track fish and will tame any pull or yo yo effect waves or current or float line tug ... has on your gun. The point of using a 1.6lb Pathos gun to shoot a power load while still keeping everything under control was more to see how far the theory of proper grip shape and handle height placement can be made to control things. There is no pipe gun being sold today that has that, you need to change and mod it yourself.

As for having a trigger to fit a certain hand or shooting preference (float line or reel) ... for sure things can be changed to fit better with line release or trigger drop down or shape. But this is also true for a speargun ... when you build a speargun and you want to sell it ... I guess you have to try and make it where it fits the majority or maybe try and make it work for Lefties as well. There is always a compromise somewhere when you want to aim for maximum compatibility. I don't sell them and really don't know what sells more or what is more desirable. I was shocked to learn that in Europe the short version sells 4x more than the long version. To be honest ... if I was building a trigger as short from the start ... there just is no need to go with 2mm housing and maybe 1.5mm would be more than enough. This might be an interesting project actually ... building a super small super light trigger designed for smaller or less powerful guns.
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Old 09-01-2017, 08:43 AM   #78
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Re: reverse mechs... tell me why again?

Part of the trick of getting a good recoil alignment is dropping the trigger finger.
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Old 09-01-2017, 11:26 AM   #79
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Re: reverse mechs... tell me why again?

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Part of the trick of getting a good recoil alignment is dropping the trigger finger.
I agree with this 100%. I discovered this when trying to align everything on my guns. You have to drop the trigger to lock out the wrist.
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Old 09-01-2017, 11:32 AM   #80
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Re: reverse mechs... tell me why again?

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I agree with this 100%. I discovered this when trying to align everything on my guns. You have to drop the trigger to lock out the wrist.


Am I correct in that dropping the trigger would force ulnar deviation of the wrist? Being that UD is a component of loose packed position for many of the joints in the wrist, I would think that would be less stable. Slight extension and RD locks the wrist joint...which why having the trigger too far from the hand causes inaccuracy IMO, because it forces flexion and UD.


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Old 09-01-2017, 01:11 PM   #81
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Re: reverse mechs... tell me why again?

Not sure about all that Justin. You can call it what you want. Raising the Thumb or dropping the Pointer and Pointer Knuckle. You can go about it in a few ways, but that will line things up for One handed shooting. Dr. P says it better than me.
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Old 09-01-2017, 01:55 PM   #82
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Re: reverse mechs... tell me why again?

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Originally Posted by jstiver09 View Post
Am I correct in that dropping the trigger would force ulnar deviation of the wrist? Being that UD is a component of loose packed position for many of the joints in the wrist, I would think that would be less stable. Slight extension and RD locks the wrist joint...which why having the trigger too far from the hand causes inaccuracy IMO, because it forces flexion and UD.


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Justin,
My ex was a DPT, so I learned very quickly better than to argue with your type about anatomy. In theory, I'm certain you are correct. In practice, dropping the trigger has been a revolution for my gun design. I was hoping to keep it my little secret since no one has ever talked about it on here, but I'm always happy to contribute. It's hard to show, because it's subtle, but I'd be happy to show you in person. You'll be stoked when you point one of the guns.
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Old 09-01-2017, 09:30 PM   #83
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Re: reverse mechs... tell me why again?

You mean, dropping the trigger as in twisting the hand a tad downwards/forwards (when looking at your own hand from "behind")?
If so, I wondered about that myself a lot as the old Mares Mirage handle forces you do do exactly that. As a by-product it moves your lower arm higher up in relation to the gun and in line with the recoil. But for me, the issue was that dropping my wrist downwards was just not natural and conducive to instinctive shooting. Every shot I had to take fast would end high with that handle. With more in-water time, I adjusted my aim to that handle but it was far from instinctive. To me, personally, there is a sweet spot that is still higher than a regular handle but still instinctive. (But if you are blessed with a lot of water days, which I am not, then I would I am sure you can lock in a new instinctive aim).

Here's a pic. To the left is the original Mirage handle which forces your hand wrist downwards - and yes, it does indeed feel more locked in that position. To the right is my customized handle which is much better suited to my own instinctive aim:
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Old 09-02-2017, 06:10 AM   #84
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Re: reverse mechs... tell me why again?

Of course when you rotate your hand and your thumb is way up there ... the trigger finger will be lower. I actually hold the trigger on the edge rather around the trigger ... so I will make a fatter trigger bottom. That is why it is important to get your palm to trigger distance correct, and on a gun that is not built by you , you would need to shave the back of the handle to move your hand and trigger finger closer. Hand sizes vary but for me, the magic distance is around 58mm (if I remember correctly). For some they need less ... some will need more. Also thickness of gloves has an affect and can change things.

One thing I pointed out in my video ... I think is really important. Once you setup everything and you are really happy ... close your eyes as you get into the prone position and aim. Make sure you have a level meter at the muzzle that is perpendicular to axis of gun. Now open your eyes as you feel you are aiming at an imaginary object. The more the level is center the better your results will be for instinctive shooting. You can really get to a point where your gun just becomes an extension of your hand. You don't have to aim you just look and move your hand towards target and shoot. Recoil is nothing more than a pleasant push into your palm. I can shoot an albacore 130 with 8.5mm at full load while just holding the gun with my thumb and only use another finger to pull the trigger. I can do that also with a full power Pathos 130 @ 1.6lbs weight with an 8mm shaft and a load that can easily pass 6m tuna test. I wish more people could get to see how effective that is. I did put a very detailed 3 part video on how to do all that ... but unfortunately most people just immediately go to the second video where it shows the actual build stage and not many people go and see the theory behind it. So they end up with a nice ergo handle ... but that really is not the same. The idea is to eliminate as much as possible any leverage a gun has on a shaft as it is exiting the track ... so that it can fly straight and stable. This should be how any gun build starts ... whether it is a rear handle ... roller ... mid handle ... first get the shaft stable ... then build up the power while paying attention to how that power is affecting shaft stability. Push the power on a platform that is not stable and that power will translate into bad recoil and poor accuracy and shaft performance.
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Old 09-02-2017, 09:15 AM   #85
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Re: reverse mechs... tell me why again?

We're not talking about Hand rotation or any kind of twisting. This is as simple as lowering the Trigger and Trigger guard or raising the height of the thumb to allow for the natural height of your trigger finger.
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Old 09-03-2017, 12:12 PM   #86
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Re: reverse mechs... tell me why again?

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Dr. P I think the newer "Short Model" might fit better into your palm.
if you use that mech - you lose all the band stretch
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