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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 08-21-2017, 04:17 AM   #16
spearq8
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Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

I was going to stay out of this thread, but since I was mentioned I might as well say something.

"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me".

I remember George Bush Jr trying to say that once and making a mess of it. Well it holds true here. I just don't trust anything Seal posts anymore because he is not honest. I am not saying this gun here is bad or his test in this case is not accurate, I never did test this gun ... but I did test another gun where he mentioned 9m range and extreme power with similar impressive videos. It turned out to be not true and it was a whole lot of smoke and mirrors. I did shell out a lot of money to test one of his guns and it took me a lot of time just to get the gun to shoot. I spent a lot of time tuning guns and I figured I would be nice and tune that gun as well .... took a lot longer than I expected ... and when I finally did get it to shoot nicely ... it performed well, but to be honest nowhere near what I expected ... less performance than a souped up 2 banded Pathos 130 using the exact same shaft and line. Seal obviously did not like the performance results and instead of thanking me for doing his R&D (something I obviously had not signed up to) his reaction was similar to his reaction with Peter is Lame when he tested his gun ... that I didn't know how to setup the gun or load the gun. Yeah right !

As for making the parts himself. Yes, the trigger and the pulleys and some other parts are all hand made by him ... and they look like they have been hacked up in his garage. I certainly think those parts are totally inferior to what you can buy off the shelf. If I was stuck in some island in the middle of nowhere where getting stuff is impossible due to red tape or logistics ... I would accept that ... but he is in Europe and only a mouse click away. There just is no reason to be cheap and put inferior quality items and charge a premium for them, especiallly with triggers where safety is a factor.

Anyway, I would just say take everything with a grain of salt. The gun I received was supposed to have been tested before it was sent ... that was pure BS, the gun had never touched water ... the pulleys were setup up where if you tried to load the wishbone it would only reach the first tab. Also the bands were setup ridiculously tight ... impossible for any human to load them. Another thing that the trigger was set too low ... no way was a shaft going in unless you bend it. The bands were so tight that I had several wishbones actually pop off (actually have video of this). This was done to try to maximize performance in the test that I was going to do ... and let the "experienced spearo" that I was figure out how to manage to load it. Remeber ... I can load a 16mm small ID band to 400% with relative ease ... I put several spearos to try and load the existing band setup (after retying the wishbones with bigger knots) ... nobody even got close. The trigger was mentioned that it was laser cut ... that is total BS, the trigger box was cut out with a hack saw or some mechanical saw. As for the nice tuna video that finally pushed me into buying that gun ... hmmm ... I don't remember any part where he mentioned that the fish was not landed ?? ... the spearfishing community is a small place and everyone will eventually run into someone who knows someone. I happen to know a LOT of bulgarian spearos ... some of the nicest people ... and let's just say that you should take everything with a grain of salt. Maybe someone else can be the guinea pig and test that gun independently ... Personally, I will sit this one out.
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:37 AM   #17
Nix
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Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Excellent gun Seal. Complete work of art and deadly killing machine.

On a side note, I don't come onto spearboard as much partially because it seems that it's become a vehicle for peddling racism across in the Politics and Religion section.
The lack of concern by admin in deafening.
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Old 08-21-2017, 09:55 AM   #18
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Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Majd, I guess that's how it's going to be.. I would say that you have crossed a line here.
I can only imagine how much Mr. Seal has learned about the models he makes during his last build and test, let alone during the past several years. Do you think that you are the only one who is learning and improving? Is the rest of the world Static and only Mr. Majd is evolving? I do think it is very ****ed up for you to be calling an extremely skilled and innovative member of this community a Liar like this.

Back to this test. What Seal is demonstrating here is not his Mechanism which he made himself. It's not his pulleys and sheaves which he made himself. It's not even his really impressive carbon work and design which he made himself. It's not even accuracy which he is showing...He is Not saying Buy a Seal Gun. Seal Designs are the Best. etc. etc. etc. Brand mongering as we have seen so many times on this site. He is demonstrating a Power System. He is showing the power possible from a relatively small gun using a relatively small shaft using a Poliplast System.

Majd.. I do think you are being a jerkoff here. Seal sent you a platform. He sent you a vessel which you could have used to test so many different configurations. Everything from Double Roller to Inverted. etc.. But you never recognized the value of what he sent you as you were so intent on pointing out every slight imperfection. And honestly it sounds very much like you really did not understand the platforms or power systems well enough to be 'improving' them right from the start. That relationship could have gone in a very very different direction. Majd you took a downward step in my respect for you today by speaking so disrespectfully towards my friend with rough hands Mr. Seal. Alright. Got to go and finish shaping 8 guns.

And we can accept your decision to Sit this thread out. Thanks.

Last edited by Behslayer; 08-21-2017 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 08-21-2017, 11:06 AM   #19
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Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Back to the gun test.

Seal Do you feel like that 8mm Shaft with the double flopper was a little heavy? I know you are demonstrating the power possible using this platform. Do you think a 7.5mm shaft would perform with less recoil? What does the Grip look like on that gun? Is it covered in Non Slip?
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Old 08-21-2017, 11:13 AM   #20
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Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Too much drama on here I think. People make mistakes so let's move past it and focus on the guns and testing.

I've never seen seals guns in person so I can't comment on the craftsmanship but there is a certain kind of people that would pay for handcrafted products that look imperfect and even work less well. For example, people spend $50k+ for a hand finished Patek Phillipe in-house movement when they can buy a quartz Casio movement for $5 that looks more uniform and is way more accurate. Burrs and rough edges are never desirable in my opinion though.
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Old 08-21-2017, 12:17 PM   #21
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Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nix View Post
Excellent gun Seal. Complete work of art and deadly killing machine.



On a side note, I don't come onto spearboard as much partially because it seems that it's become a vehicle for peddling racism across in the Politics and Religion section.

The lack of concern by admin in deafening.


Same here. It is sad though. I wish there was a way to mute the political section. It is rather disturbing. Administration, are you reading this?

Back to the the tread. I hear Behslayer. Imagine how interesting all these developments would be if forces were joined. We could have a next gen speargun in no time.




Sent from the abyss
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Old 08-21-2017, 12:31 PM   #22
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Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

I agree 100% on both accounts.

First. That political section is rife with hatred. A lot of us hope for it to be Nixed from the site.

Second. Yes. Imagine Mr. Seal with the resources of Pathos.. or even constant easy access to a long, Clear, Heated Pool with a Camera set up and a Target Sled in place. There is definitely a Science to improving Speargun Performance. But there are also elements of Innovation in design, manufacture, artistry.
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Old 08-21-2017, 01:58 PM   #23
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Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
.

Majd.. I do think you are being a jerkoff here.

And honestly it sounds very much like you really did not understand the platforms or power systems well enough to be 'improving' them right from the start.

Majd you took a downward step in my respect for you today by speaking so disrespectfully towards my friend with rough hands Mr. Seal. Alright.
one good thing on that is , this confirm me what i always said to Madj :

~why don't you go improve your spearing capability before to try to talk about things you do not really understand what they are and learn how to load a speargun even with strong hard rubbers ~
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Old 08-21-2017, 02:44 PM   #24
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Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Nice test Seal.
Penetration is great ftom that distance.
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Old 08-21-2017, 06:26 PM   #25
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Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Amazing work gun Seal, looks beautiful and performs amazingly! Well done!

I have owned two of your guns, and still own a small double roller, had to sell the big double roller because it was just too powerful for where i spear, thing was a monster!! Yes there are small imperfections in the guns, but it is HAND MADE FROM SCRATCH!!!! Your skills and your product are amazing, i could never make something equivalent.

Its testament that i am doing my best to save up to get a 110 version of this gun in question now. Which is no small amount of cash, after already spending the same on two other guns.

Why? I can buy cheaper guns? i can buy classic guns? I can pretty much for the price buy ANY other gun i wanted, being realistic?

I will buy them again because they are bloody amazing guns, they perform lightyears better than anything else i have personally used, and they are unique. I like unique / special items of quality. Its why i like fast / rare cars, and why i like nice watches (like mentioned above).

You want simple with good performance, go buy a standard pipe gun and be done with it. You want a bit of flavour, something unique, higher performance, and a gun you feel proud to look at let alone use, treat yourself. Buy a Seal, or buy Abellan etc. All down to personal taste.

I love the time and effort Majd puts into testing, its bloody amazing! But he can be very one eyed sometimes.. Which is a shame..
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:49 PM   #26
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Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

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I love the time and effort Majd puts into testing, its bloody amazing!

But he can be very one eyed sometimes.. Which is a shame..
why should people trust what he intend to say when you see he does not even knows to load properly a double rubber pipe gun , and when you see all the big fishes he shot in his pool !!
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Old 08-21-2017, 10:01 PM   #27
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Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nix View Post
Excellent gun Seal. Complete work of art and deadly killing machine.

On a side note, I don't come onto spearboard as much partially because it seems that it's become a vehicle for peddling racism across in the Politics and Religion section.
The lack of concern by admin in deafening.
I think the admin/site owner has showed on many occasions he is only interested in clicks and the monetary value that comes with it. Hosting this vile crap is immoral and disgusting and one of the reasons it took me forever to sign up for this forum.

As for the test and whether to post - let me explain. I am Scandinavian and as such, cultural difference is at play here as we generally don't feel the need to applaud when people do good (especially not when someone tries to shame us into it). We expect people to do their very best (especially people who sell products they make). When they don't do good, we will try to point it out in constructive, sometimes harsh, criticism and it is true that we often leave out the praise. While this may sound weird to Americans who would order their lattes with a double shot of praise if they could, we don't. I don't know if it is a flaw or the opposite but that's how we do it, it works for us and it is the main reason I didn't rush to post though I had seen the post and video test.
I have actually said on plenty of occasions that I respect Seal's work and to my eyes, this test looks very, very intriguing. My own preference is for airguns for the power they deliver in a smaller package so if I grow tired of dealing with o-rings, perhaps pulleys will take their place. That could very well be, actually. I wouldn't be afraid of the extra hardware and parts as they are still simpler than an airgun.

In reg. to the beef, there's always more than one side to a story and while Majd had a bad experience with a gun it is, of course, very possible that others had great ones. Doesn't make either less true. Whether he should have posted about it or not in this particular thread, is a matter of personal taste (I am on the fence but I can see what triggered it). If you see it is a personal attack, then sadly there are hardly any saints left on this board.

Speaking of which, wow - yet another pseudo argument coming from the supposedly famous (though always anonymous here) French Polynesian charter guide. Now, that's a funny way to claim moral high ground. Especially because I have seen videos of Majd loading guns that another spearo was gasping at (that other spearo being extremely well respected, afaik).

Anyways, I expect to take flack for this. Possibly another f-word ridden logical fallacy out of the Pacific.

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 08-21-2017 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 08-22-2017, 06:42 AM   #28
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Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

@Jon ... little red around the collar ... I don't remember you putting up a fit when Seal (after about a year where he seemed reasonably happy with the test results) decided to call me a liar and that I had somehow faked his test results. Until then, I was happy to just let the thing go ... sure I was pretty pissed off with the way Seal dealt with things ... but I let it pass. Some customers get pissed and want to send the gun back if they get a new gun with a small scratch ... I tend to be more understanding, and I think I went out of my way to stay politically correct. But when someone starts calling you a liar, I really don’t see any reason to keep quiet about stuff. I guess Jon you feel some guilt as you were also hyping the whole idea that the gun was shooting "chunks out of the pool wall" .... and ... "where is that tuna video?". All part of being a salesman I guess ... a little wink and pat on the back and all is good. Well I don't sell guns, I prefer to let the guns do the talking. Some people actually prefer it that way ... no smoke or mirrors ... just the real deal. Sometimes the truth disappoints, but the way to deal with it is digest the results, learn from them and improve ... not blame the messenger and bitch about the results. Why not ask Peter is Lame how the gun performed in his test since he also tests some of your guns?

By the way, I am sure Seal has learned from test results and has changed what doesn't work. A lot of progress has been made with rollers and they are improving daily ... and most likely there will be a breakthrough. Believe it or not, I am in touch with a lot of the guys pushing out the newest and latest ideas with rollers, and it is amazing and pretty exciting what ideas they come up with. The secret is keeping the shaft stable on exit ... pretty much like it is with a classic gun ... and from what I saw it does look there is big progress there ... I might test one of those creations soon. The Seal gun I tested did not perform well because that gun design did have some inherent design flaws that simply would not allow the gun to shoot well. It was not because I didn’t know how to load the gun or didn’t setup it up correctly. There is a long post on that test on this forum and you can read it here http://spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=187690. The gun in this test looks very different to the one I tested, but I certainly would not base my opinion based on the videos posted ... I seem to recall a similarly impressive video of a similar gun to the gun I tested shooting at 9m (actually the gun in the video is LESS powerful according to Seal).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtktOdlMCY

Fool me once shame on you ; fool me twice ... etc ... I would also advise anyone who wants to buy that gun to ask for a trigger change ... unless his mother in law is a spearo that is. I don’t know if he makes them himself or has someone do it for him, but Patek Phillipe ... well let’s just not go there. Here are a couple of pictures of the trigger internals and the first picture showing track to trigger seating I had to deal with (try fixing that on a brand new pinned carbon gun!!!). If some picture looks skewed or some pins seem bent, be assured it is not an optical illusion. And the spring that seems to have been hacked from some wire ... that is the only thing pushing your trigger sear back and avoiding a misfire when you load (or a few seconds after you load). Not saying there is an absolutely 100% safe trigger, but this is just one area you just avoid cutting corners. Jon ... why not use some of those mechs on the 8 Ulusub guns you are building now ?!









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Old 08-22-2017, 07:52 AM   #29
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Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

I guess this thread is receiving a lot of views and that's overloading the image hosting site. Majd, try using imgur.com to host your photos.
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:50 AM   #30
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Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

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I guess this thread is receiving a lot of views and that's overloading the image hosting site. Majd, try using imgur.com to host your photos.
Yeah, I think photobucket changed their rules, I changed to Imgur, too. Photobucket is going down the drain...
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