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-   -   Full face snorkels (http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=196811)

Mendicant 06-01-2018 08:40 PM

Full face snorkels
 
Hello again folks.

I've been seeing more and more of the tourists wearing these things in lieu of the old school snorkel masks. I've even seen people using them in the lap pool.

https://27ml3ckbz243349t7nkxkpyo-wpe...Aria_cover.jpg

Would any of you ever use one of these for spearfishing? I get that it would make it hard to Valsalva, but I imagine you could still use some sort of nose clip.

Does anyone see any pros or cons to getting one of these things? I don't know why the shift happened, but given how many people have switched over for snorkeling purposes, it must be doing something right.

Tyson Brown 06-01-2018 09:43 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
I'm gonna say the air volume inside the mask is way too huge and would cause lots of problems on deeper freedives. Plus I've heard of fogging issues.

It would be interesting to try one, in secret, so that none of your friends would ever find out you did such a silly thing ;)

Mendicant 06-01-2018 11:24 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyson Brown (Post 2169631)
It would be interesting to try one, in secret, so that none of your friends would ever find out you did such a silly thing ;)

It seems one could try in secret, or one could try openly and also have no friends.

Both would result in not having friends learn of the attempted silliness.

SubSub 06-02-2018 05:59 AM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
Those things are for surface use. I would try one just for fun, but I would never consider using one for freediving or spearfishing. Imagine trying to equalise that thing! Lol!

Tyson Brown 06-02-2018 10:51 AM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mendicant (Post 2169637)
It seems one could try in secret, or one could try openly and also have no friends.

Both would result in not having friends learn of the attempted silliness.

That works too! :up:

Mikel_24 06-04-2018 07:00 AM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
Here in Europe those masks are sold by DECATHLON under the EASYDIVE name. Meant for surface only. My girlfriend has one and threatens to ashame me to wear one whenever I take her spearfishing. XD XD

I never tried one though.

nilsonov 06-04-2018 08:24 AM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
too much volume, cant dive past 10'

Mikel_24 06-05-2018 08:46 AM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nilsonov (Post 2169811)
too much volume, cant dive past 10'

If it does not allow you to pinch your nose... then is not only a matter of volume, but also of preserving your ears!

Some guys can compensate without pinching, but not me.

diveincanada 06-05-2018 04:02 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
My dad bought one, it's a gadget ! It's "ok" on the surface but that's it... My dad wanted to buy one for my 7 year old and I said no. He's already good with a mask and snorkel and I don't see the pros of that set up..

Mikel_24 06-11-2018 04:38 AM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by diveincanada (Post 2170006)
My dad bought one, it's a gadget ! It's "ok" on the surface but that's it... My dad wanted to buy one for my 7 year old and I said no. He's already good with a mask and snorkel and I don't see the pros of that set up..

If a kid knows how to use a regular snorkel and mask, then this seems like a step backwards. However, for those who don't know yet how to disociate nose/mouth breathing, then it could be handy.

I have a 4 years old daugther who is eager to to to the beach and blow water out of the snorkel... just like whales do! I hope to get her introduced to snorkelling this very same summer.

Mikel

popgun pete 01-16-2019 07:07 AM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
4 Attachment(s)
These full face masks with attached snorkel are made possible in this stylish modern format due to moldings in modern materials using a lot more plastic in place of rubber, hence they come in a wide range of colors. They are purely designed for surface swimming, although a shallow dive at a very low angle would be possible taking you only a few feet under. So underwater sightseeing basically for people with little or no experience in diving. Apparently if you are working hard then air volumes being moved around in the mask’s “breathing circuit” expose the airflow limitations of these masks as unlike full face commercial dive masks they are only using air at surface pressure.

Also there are better versions and cheaper rip-offs that are copies which may not work as well, so hard to tell which ones are better than others by simply looking at them. One advantage for a group is that you may be able to talk underwater, but I have not read anything about them on that score.

A new fad/gadget that for the moment is being heavily promoted more on looks than performance; here are some photos of more recent models. Note that they are termed as full face masks and not dive masks, the operative word being "dive".

The sales are no doubt helped by lovely models in bikinis and alluring tropical underwater locations where these offer a sort of glass bottom boat viewing experience in you own personal and autonomous "vessel", although in some places an anti stinger suit may also be advisable!

popgun pete 01-16-2019 02:32 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here is one that claims to beat the breathing circuit drag and flow problems.
https://ninjashark.com.au/product/eq...BoCrP8QAvD_BwE

However using the "eggs all in one basket" analogy it is better to keep airflow and vision separate unless you are using commercial diving gear with full surface support and monitoring and the need for communication between all participants.

Some applications do make sense such as this one. We purchased 3 Masks for our family for Christmas. After our son has been in a wheelchair for the last 12 mths due to a hip injury we wanted to get something we could enjoy together while getting our Son back to swimming. We couldn't have been happier with our masks. Andrew made sure they arrived in time for christmas. We are amazed at how awesome they really are so much better then your normal mask and snorkle.The kids love them too. Thanks NinjaShark we are so keen on them we are purchasing another 2 masks for our friends kids.

The key word here being competent adult supervision, but if disability is not an issue then a separate mask and snorkel is always the best option for freediving.

popgun pete 01-16-2019 08:08 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
2 Attachment(s)
As a matter of interest here is the great granddaddy of snorkel equipped face masks designed by Navy man, diver, prolific inventor and one of the Diving Hall of Fame members Commander Yves Le Prieur. The snorkels positioned on either side of the full face mask are for inhalation and exhalation respectively with valves in the mask controlling their opening. A duckbill type purge valve for mask clearing depends from the forward lower section of the mask. Le Prieur designed this full face mask for “submarine hunting” with his roller hand spear and his 8 band drive speargun. All this in 1938!

The small bore snorkels increase air velocity passing through them, but add to drag on the air movement. The second diagram depicts the mask "in action".

Rather appropriate to now look at this history for which we have just passed the 80th anniversary.

Marcus 01-16-2019 10:56 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
These would go great with the outfit. They even match the mask.

https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bi...ticache=481292

popgun pete 01-17-2019 12:41 AM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus (Post 2181778)
These would go great with the outfit. They even match the mask.

https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bi...ticache=481292

Well the masks come in small, medium, large and extra large, so the kids would probably wear those. Just looking at some of the female models wearing the masks they don't appear to be in need of any extra flotation!

Doing a bit of research although they are all variations on the same theme there is a very big range of models produced under different (no name) "brand" names, although some are re-badged duplicates. All are from China and vary in price from about $30 up to $130 or more. Quality-wise they look pretty much the same, however the oro-nasal inner mask section in some face masks appears to be more of a token effort compared with that in others.

Professional full face dive masks used with a gas supply are in a completely different league with respect to the prices.
https://www.amronintl.com/commercial...ace-masks.html

popgun pete 01-17-2019 06:22 AM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
3 Attachment(s)
This is the brand that the Chinese copies are now ripping off.
https://snorkeling.oceanreefgroup.co...ing-mask-line/

Operating Manual/Catalog for "Ocean Reef" Full Face Mask
https://snorkeling.oceanreefgroup.co...rt-2018-LR.pdf

The "Easybreath" mask may be the first of the modern versions using polycarbonate lenses as the viewing lens here is curved like a fish bowl, later masks build flat planes into the lens to bring a less distorted image to the diver.

https://www.spotmydive.com/en/news/2...lows-its-price

Mana'squal 01-17-2019 12:02 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
I feel like someone should point out that these masks are deadly. The lack of air flow has people reporting light headed etc. I just wouldn't touch or promote these things.
Putting these out here this casually will get some idiot to use one and blackout.

Just my 2 cents.

popgun pete 01-17-2019 04:48 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mana'squal (Post 2181807)
I feel like someone should point out that these masks are deadly. The lack of air flow has people reporting light headed etc. I just wouldn't touch or promote these things.
Putting these out here this casually will get some idiot to use one and blackout.

Just my 2 cents.

Maybe, and I understand the physics and the physiology, but the regulators would have been onto these like a shot if they were that bad. Some years ago there was the rather attractive plastic and complicated looking "Diveman" self-contained breathing apparatus, it was powered by your legs pumping up and down, but once the government regulators took a look at it they fell on the importer like a ton of bricks. Banning followed and the importer was in big trouble as any fatalities and the prison cells beckoned.

https://www.scubaboard.com/community...eather.364071/

In fact just found one for sale https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...water-18553774
In some jurisdictions the seller would be committing an illegal act and face a heavy fine, or jail term or both! That is the way to get rid of dangerous gear, however these masks (the better ones, not the rip-offs) have been around now for 3 years. I don’t recommend them, but it is a free country and within the law people can buy what they like.

P.S. A diving professional evaluated the "Diveman" in a swimming pool under supervised conditions with the whole thing being videoed. His conclusion on surfacing was that he could maintain airflow, but if he had to work harder underwater then the effort of using the "Diveman" went up to boost the now increased oxygen requirement. This in turn put him under increased stress which would escalate into a highly dangerous and easily fatal situation. This guy was a fit and strong individual and a highly experienced underwater worker and he roundly condemned the unit then and there. The axe came down almost instantly the program aired and fearing public safety was at risk the authorities went searching for the perpetrators.

Mana'squal 01-17-2019 05:40 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by popgun pete (Post 2181821)
Maybe, and I understand the physics and the physiology, but the regulators would have been onto these like a shot if they were that bad. Some years ago there was the rather attractive plastic and complicated looking "Diveman" self-contained breathing apparatus, it was powered by your legs pumping up and down, but once the government regulators took a look at it they fell on the importer like a ton of bricks. Banning followed and the importer was in big trouble as any fatalities and the prison cells beckoned.

https://www.scubaboard.com/community...eather.364071/

In fact just found one for sale https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...water-18553774
In some jurisdictions the seller would be committing an illegal act and face a heavy fine, or jail term or both! That is the way to get rid of dangerous gear, however these masks (the better ones, not the rip-offs) have been around now for 3 years. I donít recommend them, but it is a free country and within the law people can buy what they like.



Someone posted here or elsewhere about having to put the pedal down against some current and when they got to the beach their lips were blue and they passed out or came close to it. I donít doubt the regulators would come down hard, but how many people are putting in hard work in their goofy full face mask?
If theyíre all coming from China who knows how bad some are.


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popgun pete 01-17-2019 05:49 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
1 Attachment(s)
Looks like more loopy ideas are on the way, while looking for the "Diveman" reference I stumbled on this one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Underwater-...Arco:rk:7:pf:0

A bit of searching shows that where a buck can be made there are plenty of people willing to talk up this "new" aquatic gear.

https://www.spotmydive.com/en/news/r...-one-to-choose

The key aspect of dive gear such as masks and snorkels is that they can be removed in a flash if things are not working, same idea as bailing out of any equipment such as scuba. These "new" gadgets tend to lock you in when split seconds may count and when there is no support crew as you have with more complex professional dive equipment. The appeal of these devices is they vaguely ape more professional gear, the operative term here being "ape". Mimic may have been a more polite term, but some of this gear can be summed up as "monkey see, monkey do"!

popgun pete 01-30-2019 03:33 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
2 Attachment(s)
In the interests of science I purchased one of the low cost versions as anything that they charge 150 bucks for will not have any corners cut, however for under 30 bucks US who knows? One aspect I went for is a push button disconnect on the rear head straps as getting these things off in a hurry is vital. I am going to wear it mowing my rear lawn and see how the air flow handling of the snorkel mask accommodates more strenuous activity. I don’t intend risking my neck diving with it, plus being an object of derision down at the beach!

The "Ahooga" horn moment is when you see ear plugs dangling on plastic filament connectors on either side of the masks!

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ENKEEO-F...53.m2749.l2649

Nice equipment on the model by the way of general observation!

Mana'squal 01-30-2019 04:14 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
Hahaha donít cut your foot off man make sure you put in the hustle and get the legs burning.

Canít wait to hear how it is.


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popgun pete 01-30-2019 10:30 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
2 Attachment(s)
Well as luck would have it the Enkeeo full face mask arrived today. First impressions were it looked well-made and styling and parts fit were excellent, but as soon as I took the wrapping off I felt the plastic which was hard and shiny like styrene plastic, especially the clear parts. Now polycarbonate plastic tends to have a slight grey cast to it, but this stuff is crystal clear and its durability may not be so great especially in the school of hard knocks. It is obvious that a diving pro never had a real good look at one of these masks as in seconds I could see where its problems lay. You can stick your index and middle finger with some slight room to spare in the rectangular cross section snorkel barrel on top of the mask, but where it pipes down into the mask you could barely push your little finger in there and holding clips at the entrance inside the mask make that impossible anyway. Note quite round, but rounded, that air flow pipe runs down the centerline of the mask between your eyes for about 4 inches and that is a big restriction with a relatively small bore for a snorkel. So without even putting it on my head I can tell you that strong exhalation will have air rebounding and swirl back in the oro-nasal section of the mask and will build-up carbon dioxide because where it counts the snorkel bore is way too small. I use a big bore snorkel and using this Enkeeo mask would be tantamount to breathing through a half bore or less snorkel, plus the extra drag on air flow as it whips around the bends and turns. So low power, low effort, slow breathing only as the snorkel bores aren’t big enough. Half diameter means a quarter of the cross-section and for airflow through a snorkel it is the cross sectional area that counts for a breathing tube.

Now you know why in the old days full face masks had two big snorkels on either side of the mask looking like antlers, you just cannot do it with these nicely made, but basically restricted, single bore snorkels. Once air flow goes turbulent you will be hard pressed to push exhaled air out and replenish with clean air on each breath, while at a slow rate and a laminar flow you might just keep the carbon dioxide build up low enough for pottering around. And to think of all the personality diver bloggers who give these things the thumbs up they should be ashamed of themselves.

The masks do work, but not well enough because they need a constant diameter and bigger bore snorkel where it counts, near your nose and mouth. As for the snorkel non-return dry valve on the top, well it may be adequate, but the bore diameter is the Achilles Heel of these very techno-styled full face masks and they are not fit for use in anything but millpond conditions.

I guess kids play and swim around in such calm conditions under adult supervision and like kids everywhere they like the coolest and latest stuff that they see the other kids are using, like yo-yos and spinning tops from yesteryear these things are a fad and a quality mask and snorkel should replace these gadgets once the novelty wears off.

popgun pete 01-31-2019 04:25 AM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
4 Attachment(s)
Here is the owner's manual for the Enkeeo full face mask and to be fair they do give you warnings, but you only see them here in detail after you purchased the mask.

popgun pete 02-05-2019 06:15 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
1 Attachment(s)
Another mask design seemingly out of the movies!
https://www.yankodesign.com/2018/06/...ull-ever-need/

Mana'squal 02-05-2019 06:17 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
Looks like someone put a face shaped seal on the back of a blender


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popgun pete 02-05-2019 09:58 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
2 Attachment(s)
From the website. https://www.yankodesign.com/2018/06/...ull-ever-need/

THE LAST DIVING MASK YOUíLL EVER NEED
my comment: or maybe the last that you will ever use!

These sure arenít your great grandaddyís swimming goggles! This ultramodern twist on underwater specs, called D-Mask, addresses many of the issues divers currently encounter. Secured around the forehead, jaw, and chin, the design may cover the full face, but the result feels less restrictive than traditional goggles.

While itís usable on its own, by simply connecting the unit to an air tank, users can breathe easy and more naturally without the need of a sealed mouthpiece. Itís also equipped with an innovative bone-conduction radio system that makes it possible to enjoy tunes or communicate with other divers conversationally Ė something that was impossible and limited to basic sign language before. Other cool features include built-in LED headlamps, and a head-up projected display that indicates water conditions, depth, pressure and weather all on the front shield.


There is a snorkel version, photo of snorkel is attached.

popgun pete 02-06-2019 02:40 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
1 Attachment(s)
The D-mask certainly looks futuristic, but the view from such a fishbowl perspective is going to be distorted. As a gas supplied mask it might breathe OK, but if it did then full face masks with oro-nasal insert masks have been wasting their time, yet somehow I do not think so! When Commander Le Prieur was developing his "scaphandre" apparatus, the first scuba, the full face dive mask was free flow with air exiting via the mask flanges at the sides. Under these conditions there was absolutely no chance of carbon dioxide build-up, but of course such systems were wasteful of gas in a limited supply carried by the diver, especially at depth.

StukNotAnchored 02-06-2019 06:39 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
Interesting that you don't want to be laughed at at the beach, but are willing to where a full face snorkel and mow the lawn where the neighbors can see you.

If I see the neighbor cutting their lawn with a snorkel mask, I am convinced someone is chained up in the basement. Or maybe they lost their tin foil hat.

popgun pete 02-07-2019 01:19 AM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StukNotAnchored (Post 2182500)
Interesting that you don't want to be laughed at at the beach, but are willing to where a full face snorkel and mow the lawn where the neighbors can see you.

If I see the neighbor cutting their lawn with a snorkel mask, I am convinced someone is chained up in the basement. Or maybe they lost their tin foil hat.

Actually none of the neighbours can see into my rear yard, hence the choice! Window sill height minimums and local overlooking rules have seen to that. However once I saw the snorkel bore restriction, something you don't really see until you are actually holding one, I dismissed any idea of trying it out. The choice of scratch-prone plastics means that a careless owner will soon start degrading their mask, but the response here is why not simply buy another one? Recently I renewed one of my pro-dive masks and it cost me a 100 bucks on special, so you can see why, for the moment, people are queuing up (misguidedly) for their $29.99 full face masks with a snorkel included for nothing.

popgun pete 02-11-2019 12:04 AM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
When in the interests of science I ordered one of these full face masks with a “reverse unicorn” snorkel I ordered a black one, but it never showed up, so I ordered the green and white one from another supplier and another brand name. That is the mask which I reported on earlier.

Well today completely out of the blue the black one arrived after spending some time orbiting the planet, so now I can compare the two of them.

At a quick glance they look like two peas in a pod, but they are different plastic moldings as the reinforcing struts on the rear of the mask frames and the rubber face sealing flanges are similar, but different in each case. The clear lenses on the front of the masks are virtually identical as are the protective stickers which you peel off before use. On this black version I can stick my little finger into the clear tube that runs between your eyes and forms the front snorkel, but only just as the entry clip holding their respective frames together is different and the black one does not have that minor extra restriction to its airflow. This black one also has a different shape to its snorkel, but they both use a ball valve to cut the airflow. Performance-wise there will not be much difference as the dimensions that count are much the same in both of them and the other differences are mainly stylistic.

Just found the web page that it came from, there are many different versions of them, but this one had a deeper front to rear top on its snorkel instead of being wider at the top from side to side as many others are.
http://diveswim.com/en/product/Lates...gn-MC6108.html

Some have a colored top on their snorkels, not necessarily a high viz color, but this one is just jet black.
Now I see the advert again I cannot think why it slipped my mind!
http://diveswim.com.img.800cdn.com/U...55512a677a.jpg

popgun pete 02-11-2019 03:37 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
1 Attachment(s)
I guess this image sums up the full face snorkel mask phenomena. Note the pink ear plugs dangling on either side of the mask on their pink monofilaments, that tells you that this mask is not a serious dive mask as ear plugs are a big no-no in diving.

popgun pete 04-12-2019 03:24 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
When sales need a boost, add a "carbon fiber" version to the mix!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Diving-Mask....c100008.m2219
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/P~8AA...5N/s-l1600.jpg

Mana'squal 04-12-2019 03:29 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
Hahahaha $70 death trap

popgun pete 05-24-2019 08:33 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
2 Attachment(s)
Here is a bit of a surprise, the well-known Italian company Seac Sub are making these snorkel equipped full face masks. Hard to tell from the photos, but it looks like the snorkel (transparent tube section) does not run down the bridge of the nose as it does on the Asian masks, hence breathing may not be so restricted. As to where the air flows into the mask is not apparent from the images. Even so combining breathing and seeing is basically placing all your eggs in one basket and if kids use these things then they need to be under close supervision and that means in the water with them. Evidently the market for these gadgets is not going away any time soon!

virgili 05-27-2019 03:14 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
1 Attachment(s)
My ancestors who were pionneering spearfishing in the early thirtees on the french Riviera were using this home made"full face mask" mask....

popgun pete 05-27-2019 05:12 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by virgili (Post 2186851)
My ancestors who were pionneering spearfishing in the early thirtees on the french Riviera were using this home made"full face mask" mask....

Judging by the pursed lips that front mounted snorkel has a mouthpiece.

popgun pete 07-04-2019 10:56 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
2 Attachment(s)
Nearly fell off my chair when this popped up on my screen today, a new high, or low depending on your perspective, from dive gear manufacturers in China.
https://www.gearbest.com/diving/pp_0...ml?wid=1433363
The text is as follows: (the masks are supplied in a range of colors)

K2 Circulation Breathing Separation Snorkeling Mask - Pink

Main Features:
● 180-degree wonderful sea view
You will see more beautiful scenery than ever before. The well-designed and improved HJKB mirror gives you the best distortion-free visibility and maximum visibility.
● Respiratory system
Our K2 recirculating breathing snorkeling mask mechanically isolates exhalation and inhalation, inhalation from the double breathing tube, exhaled carbon dioxide and the remaining oxygen that is not drawn into the body, respectively, from the mask the outside flows out, thereby isolating accidents such as carbon dioxide entering the human body and causing danger to life.
● ( outer ) Circulating natural breathing
The snorkel mask allows you to breathe through the nose or mouth in the water. Breathing is smooth, ( independent exhaust check digital ensures no exhaust gas, sufficient oxygen ).
● Leakproof
The product is durable and provides a comfortable waterproof seal, no water leakage, and three waterproof mechanisms for safer wear.
● 100 percent anti-fog
The latest design of snorkeling mask anti-fog film: can last up to 15,000 hours of anti-fog effect, and there is no fog to hinder the exploration of the underwater world.
● Adjustable
The advanced adjustable double-elastic comfort belt system guarantees you the best fit and comfort while enjoying hours of snorkeling.

I will let the above speak for itself.

popgun pete 07-11-2019 05:39 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
If the kids are pestering you to buy them one of the full face masks like all their friends have then buy one of these as Seac-Sub have a reputation to keep. Unlike the no-name stuff or brand that you never heard of from Asia, they have actually done some homework. Introduce them to a proper mask and snorkel once the novelty wears off.

https://www.scubastore.com/scuba-div...2hfY2noHiJ8%3D

https://youtu.be/WyCVh3qj9sQ

popgun pete 09-28-2019 04:52 PM

Re: Full face snorkels
 
Seac-Sub full face masks can be seen here in action. Although a separate mask and snorkel are always preferable, these better designed units come from a different planet compared to the similar "dive equipment (die eqipmunt)" coming out of Asia in terms of these all-in-one gadgets.
https://seacsub.com/Catalogs_2019/C0148_2.mp4


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