Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > United States Geographical Locations > Florida Gulfcoast Spearfishing

Florida Gulfcoast Spearfishing Post here to discuss regional action or issues about spearing on Florida's Gulfcoast.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 6 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 05-07-2012, 01:46 PM   #46
diverlen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tequesta, FL
Posts: 1,103
Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Quote:
Originally Posted by jadairiii View Post
1950 there were about 2.8 millon people living in Florida, by 2010, there were about 18.8 million people living in Florida.

Are you sure it's the Goliath that are eating all the local seafood?
One only has to look at the commercial and residential construction that has taken place in the Keys since 1950. I was one of those guys. Now, it is a totally different world down there with hordes of commercial and recreational interests hitting the Keys around the clock, and using today's technology that has increased their proficiency by leaps and bounds.
diverlen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2012, 01:55 PM   #47
Nix
Registered User
 
Nix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Costa Rica/Trinidad & Tobago
Posts: 431
Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

I don't live in Florida so I can tell you for sure they do taste great. I have found lobsters in their bellies.

Yummmmy!!!
Nix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2012, 02:24 PM   #48
Summerland Key
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Florida keys
Posts: 838
Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

The stomach content studies, which are on going, show goliath grouper eat mainly crustaceans and slow moving fish that depend on spines for defense. Jim knows this as he has read the studies---not sure why he even mentions the small snapper grouper issue--other than to incite arguement.
Summerland Key is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2012, 02:29 PM   #49
Megabeast
Registered User
 
Megabeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Age: 35
Posts: 2,404
Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

I was under the impression that they don't go scoop food up with their mouth often, and that their main way to eat is to push all the water out of their mouth and create a small vacuum like effect and suck things in that swim by or can't swim away. If that's true, they could eat 2-5lb fish pretty easily one would think. That said, I don't think they're eating all the fish up in these parts. I dove a wreck yesterday with 4 on it, 3 of them in the 400lb range.. and there were plenty of grouper and snapper... too much Red Snapper IMO

It's just hard to believe that Hebrew Mullet are 'athletic' enough to chase down grouper, let alone snappers. However I do feel they could put the hurt on our already meager lobster population.

Whoever said that GPS changed fishing pressure is spot on. Before there were VERY few people who could find a spot using dead reckoning... now every idiot with a top spot chart can get to a decent spot.
__________________
Spearfishing is underwater grocery shopping
Megabeast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2012, 04:22 PM   #50
deepdown
Registered User
 
deepdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Miami – Curaçao
Posts: 1,784
Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Dove some wrecks I hadn't been to in a few years this weekend. They used to be fairly productive, now just jew fish living there...

Enjoy the pics...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1438.jpg
Views:	110
Size:	52.4 KB
ID:	171661   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1474.jpg
Views:	106
Size:	41.1 KB
ID:	171662   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1472.jpg
Views:	114
Size:	65.1 KB
ID:	171663  
__________________
Gerald, Miami FL
Extreme Divers Club
deepdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2012, 07:55 PM   #51
jfjf
.
 
jfjf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Palm Bch County
Posts: 8,789
Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaft'o'death View Post
I do agree with you Jim.. To assume that just because there are tons of other fish on the reef, swimming around, not being eaten, it does not mean that GG do not eat them at some point.

But, if that is the case, then the inverse must also be true.. Just because there is a lack of life on a ledge or wreck, other than GG, it does NOT mean that the GG ate them.. Correct?
..
Yes of course. I'm not sure why my comments are categorized as inciteful and found to be hard to interpret.

If we are to believe the scientists (and I do)... the GG are eating LOW on the food chain. They are not eating high level predators like grouper and snapper. They are eating crustaceans (crabs and lobsters) but they are also eating fish other than the ones we are after (for the most part).

The studies examine the actual contents of the fish guts.. I myself have performed literally thousands of fish gut content examinations (although on much smaller fish than GG), these types of studies involve identifying prey items from simple visual observation.

However, other studies look at isotopic ratios in the tissue of the fish.

I would have to look it up, but basically the fish are what they eat, and this type of isotopic analysis does not tell exactly what they are eating, but gives sorta an average view of what level in the food chain they primarily derive food from. I'm too lazy to look up isotopic analysis methods, I'm sure I've butchered the explanation to a considerable extent, but it has been used by ecologists to study broad ecological (trophic) relationships for a long time.

I'm sure it varies on a lot of environmental factors and the size of the indivdual etc., but I have to believe them when they say the jewfish are not eating the predators (much). Kinda like when scientists say carbon dating says this or that... Either we believe the science (for the most part) or we just disregard it because it doesn't match our preconceived notion of reality. But few of us have the scientific background to question this stuff with any type of rigorous argument.

So if the scientists are mostly right and are not liars, then how come I have fish "stolen" from me when freediving all too frequently? There is absolutely no denying that these guys are stealing a lot of desirable fish from fisherman. How do we reconcile the glaring contradiction between what we see with our own eyes and what some scientists tell us?

I think the answer is simple really, they take top level predators off our lines and spears, because that is what WE target. They are opportunistic and will take cudas off the shaft too, but I doubt that they normally catch many 3-4 ft cuda in a natural setting. The fish are injured and compromised and struggling and the GG are turned on and take them, but..... on a global scale it does not constitute the primary diet of the jewfish... incidental take so to speak...our observations are not representative of the "natural" relationship.

To say that because we now see less gags and more jewfish on a reef is proof that this is a cause and effect relationship is not very scientific. Similarly, I have video of a bunch of black grouper and big snappers hanging around jewfish on a wreck (in close proximity to each other). This video does not prove they they never prey on the black grouper. These are just anecdotal observations that should not be taken out of context or extrapolated to a cause and effect.

OBVIOUSLY human fishing pressure has heavily impacted the snapper/grouper population, but I think we have to rely on the scientists to tell us that these are not the primary food source for the jewfish.

The reality of the situation is that GG are a major nuisance in some areas to fisherman. I don't support the idea that we need to "thin the heard" so we will have more gags next season.

I also don't support the idea that jewfish should be protected indefintely with zero take allowed by legitimate and legal fishing.

It seems that everyone agrees that the GG are being deliberately killed now to some considerable extent. My personal belief is that it makes more sense to work toward a future goal of developing a very small and sustainable (and legal) fishery rather than to forever resign ourselves to allowing only those who risk prosecution to take them.

I also think that many fisherman might be more willing to accept the nuisance interactions if they felt that the regulators would eventually re-open the fishery, if and when it can be sustained. If the prevailing thinking within the fishing community is that "the man" will NEVER allow them to be taken, no matter what density they attain... well then it is not hard to understand why some people will decide to "thin the herd now"...
jfjf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 08:35 AM   #52
Ray Odor
Senior Member
 
Ray Odor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Lutz, Fl.
Posts: 926
Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Very well said, jifi, we want regulation on the big guys for a sustainable number but the present population is now endangering the other stock of fish.

And, Megabeast, you are absolutly correct on the way they feed. Under a bridge in the Key.s I spotted a 30 pounder. Had my underwater camera with me so I decided to picture him eating a lobster out of my hand.I held the lobster out with my right hand, with camera in left hand to snap the picture of him feeding on the lobster. He came up to me with mouth shut. I waited to click my shot. All of a sudden his mouth quickly opened and, if I had not released my lobster real fast, my hand would have been sucked in with the lobster.

Ray

Ray Odor Diving Service
2527 E. 149th. Ave.
Lutz, Fl.33559 Ph. 813-971-3368
www.spearfishing.cc
fishship@tampabay.rr.com
"You can always get the shaft from Ray"
__________________
Type in Google,Ray Odor
Ray Odor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 08:47 AM   #53
Hank49
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Stann Creek, Belize
Age: 59
Posts: 1,933
Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Ataque de Mero. - YouTube
This video gives a pretty good picture of how they feed. And why maybe you guys should shoot one or two.
Hank49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 09:34 AM   #54
Ray Odor
Senior Member
 
Ray Odor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Lutz, Fl.
Posts: 926
Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

I watched your video, Hank. NUFF SAID!!!!

Ray
__________________
Type in Google,Ray Odor
Ray Odor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2012, 05:58 PM   #55
Shaft'o'death
Maverick
 
Shaft'o'death's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Posts: 1,091
Send a message via AIM to Shaft'o'death
Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Mad respect for you Ray.. But, there is not one ounce of proof that they are endangering other species of fish…

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Odor View Post
Very well said, jifi, we want regulation on the big guys for a sustainable number but the present population is now endangering the other stock of fish.

And, Megabeast, you are absolutly correct on the way they feed. Under a bridge in the Key.s I spotted a 30 pounder. Had my underwater camera with me so I decided to picture him eating a lobster out of my hand.I held the lobster out with my right hand, with camera in left hand to snap the picture of him feeding on the lobster. He came up to me with mouth shut. I waited to click my shot. All of a sudden his mouth quickly opened and, if I had not released my lobster real fast, my hand would have been sucked in with the lobster.

Ray

Ray Odor Diving Service
2527 E. 149th. Ave.
Lutz, Fl.33559 Ph. 813-971-3368
www.spearfishing.cc
fishship@tampabay.rr.com
"You can always get the shaft from Ray"
__________________
There is room for all of God's creatures, right between the rice and veggies.......
Shaft'o'death is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 10:39 AM   #56
longcj
Registered User
 
longcj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 190
Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Hank, awesome video, thanks.
longcj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 11:09 AM   #57
sniper
Team Bottom Feeder
 
sniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mikesville'Fl.
Age: 45
Posts: 150
Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

SHOOT,EM!! It's clear to see they eat grouper,snapped,ect. More big fish means less little fish.. you don't get 500 lbs. eating shrimp.
sniper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 10:45 AM   #58
noles97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4
Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Jewfish do eat other "gamefish" species. I have seen it with my own eyes. I can not tell you what they eat when I am not there, because well quite simply I am not there. My guess would be that they do not normally eat grouper, snapper etc. and that they are a scavenger so to speak but that doesn't change the fact that they do infact eat "some" grouper and snapper. Please dont use the argument for the Jewfish's size on the fact that he must eat bigger fish to attain that size. This is a retarded argument! The Blue Whale is the largest creature on earth, look up what he eats in the Funk & Wagnall.

What they eat is not the question that should be asked however in my opinion. The question should be be, "can the species endure a limited harvest and still sustain a healthy population"? I believe the answer to this is a resounding YES! It is also a faulse statement to say that it is too difficult to track the number of "legally harvested fish" because a tag system similar to that of the alligator quota and permit system can regulate when, where, how, and how many Jewfish are harvested. There is no way to convince anyone with a brain that this could not be instituted in regards to Jewfish as well. If your concern is the illegal harvest of Jewfish that is different. There is no amount of regulation that will change some people's will to be an outlaw and all the Roy Crabtree's in the world wont change that.

As for the perceived decline in Gag and Snapper on these wrecks, I believe it is 100% the responsibility of HUMANS! I don't know that the following 2 statements constitutes proof but I challenge anyone to refute it:

I consider myself to be a very good fisherman. I have a commercial license, I am a licensed captain, I have made money selling fish and I have won money in several fishing tournaments. Regardless of how good a fisherman I am, I still can not find a spot by dead reckoning. The problem with wrecks is "they don't move", and once someone finds and marks it on GPS is is very easy to get back to. Ths was not the case prior to Loran A and C. In the 60's and into the 70's these wrecks did not get hit as much because morons like me could not find them without the assistance of electronics. Why do you think that it is that fisherman will not give out the numbers to "their" best spots?

So here is the statement, If you don't believe that it is humans that take the majority on the fish off of these immovable wrecks, please send me a pm with the GPS coordinates and if it is within 120nm of Carrabelle, Florida I will personally show you what a 36' boat full of motivated anglers can do in about 3 or 4 trips to "your" wreck!

In closing, I hope that the SE Fisheries folks move to adpot a tag system for Jewfish in the near future but I don't believe they will. I am also don't believe that I will get any PM's with coordinates because "we" are the ones cleaning the artificial reefs off. And finally I refuse to call them Goliath grouper, not because I don't like the name but because I am so sick of political correctness changing the way we have to treat every little aspect of our lives including something so stupid as the non scientific name of a damn fish!
noles97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 11:37 AM   #59
kmoose
Team Headhunter
 
kmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Slowcala, FL
Age: 49
Posts: 3,497
Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Quote:
Originally Posted by noles97 View Post
Jewfish do eat other "gamefish" species. I have seen it with my own eyes. I can not tell you what they eat when I am not there, because well quite simply I am not there. My guess would be that they do not normally eat grouper, snapper etc. and that they are a scavenger so to speak but that doesn't change the fact that they do infact eat "some" grouper and snapper. Please dont use the argument for the Jewfish's size on the fact that he must eat bigger fish to attain that size. This is a retarded argument! The Blue Whale is the largest creature on earth, look up what he eats in the Funk & Wagnall.

What they eat is not the question that should be asked however in my opinion. The question should be be, "can the species endure a limited harvest and still sustain a healthy population"? I believe the answer to this is a resounding YES! It is also a faulse statement to say that it is too difficult to track the number of "legally harvested fish" because a tag system similar to that of the alligator quota and permit system can regulate when, where, how, and how many Jewfish are harvested. There is no way to convince anyone with a brain that this could not be instituted in regards to Jewfish as well. If your concern is the illegal harvest of Jewfish that is different. There is no amount of regulation that will change some people's will to be an outlaw and all the Roy Crabtree's in the world wont change that.

As for the perceived decline in Gag and Snapper on these wrecks, I believe it is 100% the responsibility of HUMANS! I don't know that the following 2 statements constitutes proof but I challenge anyone to refute it:

I consider myself to be a very good fisherman. I have a commercial license, I am a licensed captain, I have made money selling fish and I have won money in several fishing tournaments. Regardless of how good a fisherman I am, I still can not find a spot by dead reckoning. The problem with wrecks is "they don't move", and once someone finds and marks it on GPS is is very easy to get back to. Ths was not the case prior to Loran A and C. In the 60's and into the 70's these wrecks did not get hit as much because morons like me could not find them without the assistance of electronics. Why do you think that it is that fisherman will not give out the numbers to "their" best spots?

So here is the statement, If you don't believe that it is humans that take the majority on the fish off of these immovable wrecks, please send me a pm with the GPS coordinates and if it is within 120nm of Carrabelle, Florida I will personally show you what a 36' boat full of motivated anglers can do in about 3 or 4 trips to "your" wreck!

In closing, I hope that the SE Fisheries folks move to adpot a tag system for Jewfish in the near future but I don't believe they will. I am also don't believe that I will get any PM's with coordinates because "we" are the ones cleaning the artificial reefs off. And finally I refuse to call them Goliath grouper, not because I don't like the name but because I am so sick of political correctness changing the way we have to treat every little aspect of our lives including something so stupid as the non scientific name of a damn fish!
Good post Noles, you and I are pretty eye to eye on this and we fish alot of the same stuff. I don't really care if they open up a harvest or not as long as it's limited to hook and line gear.

Do we need a harvest, I'm not sold on it so much as they are poached or deliberately killed and left for crab food more often then most would care to confirm. Do they impact the fishery.... compared to humans? I don't even think it's measurable... even if you counted the fish they steal or consume after release.

Due to the world we live in we must carefully consider what species we choose to target for harvest. One could say that porpoise or sea turtles could withstand a "limited" harvest. And through good scientific analysis a case could be made for such....... would pursuing such perpetuate spearfishing in a possitive light to the voting public? I would think not.

I believe I have more than a few years left to spearfish on this big spinning ball and would like my children and grandchildren to have the opportunity to do the same. Pursuing the harvest of a once exploited species doesn't fit into propogating that directive.
__________________
The Moose is Loose !
"SUPER SPORTY"
kmoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 08:07 AM   #60
Biminibill
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 384
Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper View Post
SHOOT,EM!! It's clear to see they eat grouper,snapped,ect. More big fish means less little fish.. you don't get 500 lbs. eating shrimp.
Oh, No? How big do whales get eating krill?
Biminibill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:57 AM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com