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Old 12-01-2012, 01:10 AM   #1
chuam
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Stand your ground?

ATLANTA — The fatal shooting of a Florida teenager who was listening to loud music in a car a week ago has drawn comparisons to the Trayvon Martin case, but the differences are significant.

Unlike the Martin case, several people witnessed this shooting and there was no scuffle before 17-year-old Jordan Davis was shot to death. And notably, the man accused of firing into the car was arrested a day later.

Michael David Dunn is charged with murder and attempted murder in the Nov. 23 shooting at a Jacksonville, Fla., gas station. The 45-year-old Dunn parked beside the sport utility vehicle occupied by Davis and three other young men and told them to turn the music down, police said. Dunn exchanged words with Davis, who was in the back seat, and started firing. He later told police he felt threatened. His attorney has said Dunn saw a gun and shot in self-defense, perhaps laying the ground work for a case under Florida’s “stand your ground” law.

Since the shooting, Davis’ family has received an outpouring of support from the community. A “Justice for Jordan” Facebook page was set up and his classmates gathered at a memorial service with T-shirts showing Davis’ smiling face. Fire trucks saluted him by spraying water over an airplane carrying his body to Atlanta while it was on the runway. The teen’s mother lives near Marietta, and a funeral is scheduled for Davis Saturday at the Trinity Chapel Church of God in Powder Springs.

Davis’ father, Ron, said his son was a typical high school junior who was getting ready to start his first job at McDonald’s, looking forward to buying his first car and turning 18 early next year. He had a “million-dollar smile” and liked music, listening to mostly rap but also the sounds of his dad’s generation, including James Brown and The Temptations.

Standing over his son’s casket, Ron Davis promised to fight laws that allow people to carry guns outside of their homes.

“Law enforcement should be the only people who should have guns on the street,” he said. “That’s what’s killing our kids more than anything.”

Police said they didn’t find a weapon in the SUV with the young men, and Ron Davis said he doesn’t believe Dunn’s claim that he saw a gun. He thinks Dunn is searching for an explanation.

“They were just 17-year-old kids that were having a good time, coming from the mall,” he said.

The shooting has revived the debate over Florida’s “stand your ground” law, which allows people to use deadly force if they believe their life is in imminent danger. Dunn’s attorney hasn’t said whether she will argue the shooting was justified under the statute.

The law came under harsh criticism after Martin was shot in February by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman, who believed the teenager was acting suspicious. Martin and Zimmerman got into a fight and Zimmerman said he thought Martin was reaching for his gun. Authorities didn’t arrest Zimmerman for more than a month after the shooting, adding to the furor.

“This case is so far from Trayvon Martin’s case,” Ron Davis said.

University of Miami law professor Tamara Lave, who has closely followed the Martin case, agreed.

“I don’t see how he is going to prevail under ‘stand your ground,’” Lave, a former public defender in San Diego for 10 years, said of Dunn. “You’re allowed to own a gun. Even if there was a gun in the car, that doesn’t mean the gun was used to threaten him in any way.”

The shooting unfolded about 7:40 p.m. when Dunn stopped at the gas station with his girlfriend after going to his son’s wedding, police said. Dunn’s girlfriend went into the store, and he told the young men to turn the music down.

“It was loud, they admitted that, but that’s not a reason for someone to open fire on them and take action,” Jacksonville Sheriff’s Lt. Rob Schoonover said.

Dunn fired eight or nine shots into the car and Davis was hit a couple of times, police said. Dunn’s girlfriend ran outside.

“When she came out, she said, ‘What’s going on?’ and supposedly his statement was, ‘I just fired at these kids,’” Schoonover said. “At that time I don’t know if he knew that he struck anyone in the vehicle.”

Dunn and his girlfriend drove off and spent the night at a hotel. Dunn was arrested a day later at his home in Satellite Beach, about 160 miles away, when police tracked his license plate.

He told detectives he had been in the process of turning himself in to a neighbor, who was in law enforcement.

“His side of the story is he felt threatened and that is the reason he took action,” Schoonover said.

Dunn was described by police as a gun collector who shot at local ranges. His attorney, Robin Lemonidis, told The Florida Times-Union her client “absolutely” saw someone with a shotgun in the SUV. She only said “we’ll see” if Florida’s “stand your ground” law would be part of her defense.

Police didn’t know if Dunn had a concealed weapons permit, but said he had the gun for a “long period of time.”

Lemonidis told the newspaper Dunn was “devastated that anyone was harmed in this instance.”

Phone calls made to his relatives were not immediately returned.

Police said they were looking into whether alcohol was a factor, but didn’t know. Lemonidis said it was not. An assistant for her said she did not want talk more about the case more until the trial.

http://mobile.washingtonpost.com/c.j...&cid=459&spf=1
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:28 AM   #2
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Re: Stand your ground?

Without commenting on the shooting - I always taught my kids to be courteous toward others - and if someone had asked them to turn the music down, they would have responded with a "No problem man" and turned it down. Courtesy goes a long way toward defusing situations that can turn ugly, and on occasion keep you from getting shot by a wacko.

The kid would still be alive if he had good naturedly accommodated the request to turn it down. It wouldn't have cost him anything to do so.

You never know who you are talking to, and having a smart arrogant mouth can get you shot when you do it to the wrong guy. Teaching kids manners helps keep them alive.
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:21 AM   #3
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Re: Stand your ground?

X2........I HATE listening to someone elses super loud and vulgar music while I am at a gas station....its just freakin rude....especially when I have young kids with me......but I would not kill them over it no matter how tempting it might be...
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:23 AM   #4
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Re: Stand your ground?

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Star View Post
...The kid would still be alive if .....
The parents of the shooter had taught him restraint and self-control.

He, like Zimmerman, substituted a gun for bravery. Without a gun in the car this guy would have never even engaged those kids.
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:30 AM   #5
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Re: Stand your ground?

Oh bullshit, John.... This a completely different case from the Zimmerman/Martin case.
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:53 AM   #6
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Re: Stand your ground?

Simply based on the article it's murder. Unless something comes up that's not in the story the shooter should fry. I don't care how obnoxious the kids were there is zero justification for the shooting
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Old 12-01-2012, 08:36 AM   #7
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Re: Stand your ground?

Sounds like murder to me, no doubt about it. They probably won't be turning their obnoxious rap music up at the gas station anymore.
I don't understand the ceremonial funeral held for this obnoxious rude kid though. The kid invited his demise.

This line from his father is totally 'tarded too.

Quote:
“Law enforcement should be the only people who should have guns on the street,” he said. “That’s what’s killing our kids more than anything.”
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:31 AM   #8
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Re: Stand your ground?

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Sounds like murder to me, no doubt about it. They probably won't be turning their obnoxious rap music up at the gas station anymore.
I don't understand the ceremonial funeral held for this obnoxious rude kid though. The kid invited his demise.

This line from his father is totally 'tarded too.
No doubt the shooting was unjustified.

I blame O though. The guy was no doubt listening to O on hate radio... "We need another stimulus"... ... what? Hey kid turn tha - f you old man... well **** it... POW, POW, BOOM, BLAM, BAM, BOOM!!!

Shit I even shot a lizard and kicked my puppy when I heard that. It's understandable...
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:35 AM   #9
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Re: Stand your ground?

Odd how these guys always say they were in the process of turning themselves in when they are arrested. If he felt he was justified in the shooting he would not have left the scene and stayed in a hotel. That these high profile shootings are taken place in states that have more lenient concealed carry laws is problematic to lawful gun owners nationwide in that it gives more ammo to the anti-gun crowd. A group that I believe outnumbers those of us who legally and responsibly own firearms making them a dangerous adversary.
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:36 AM   #10
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Re: Stand your ground?

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Originally Posted by HARVESTER View Post
No doubt the shooting was unjustified.

I blame O though. The guy was no doubt listening to O on hate radio... "We need another stimulus"... ... what? Hey kid turn tha - f you old man... well **** it... POW, POW, BOOM, BLAM, BAM, BOOM!!!

Shit I even shot a lizard and kicked my puppy when I heard that. It's understandable...
Careful, there are those on this board who don't understand sarcasm.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:39 AM   #11
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Re: Stand your ground?

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Sounds like murder to me, no doubt about it. They probably won't be turning their obnoxious rap music up at the gas station anymore.
I don't understand the ceremonial funeral held for this obnoxious rude kid though. The kid invited his demise.

This line from his father is totally 'tarded too.
Yes they may have had loud music but you seem to be in the know about how the guy asked them to turn it down. Was it friendly or did he tell them to "turn their obnoxious shit down". If it was the later I would tell someone to **** off too. Based on that did I invite my own demise?
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:46 AM   #12
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Re: Stand your ground?

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Originally Posted by chuam View Post
Yes they may have had loud music but you seem to be in the know about how the guy asked them to turn it down. Was it friendly or did he tell them to "turn their obnoxious shit down". If it was the later I would tell someone to **** off too. Based on that did I invite my own demise?
You are just looking for a reason to defend the victim mentality displayed in this progressive article aren't you?
Yes, the act of blasting loud knowingly obnoxious music in a public place, not expecting it, is inviting your demise. Feel free to carry on with such idiocy and you might be staring at the end of a gun someday. There are unstable people in society that find rude behavior intolerable...that's just a fact.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:30 AM   #13
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Re: Stand your ground?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
You are just looking for a reason to defend the victim mentality displayed in this progressive article aren't you?
Yes, the act of blasting loud knowingly obnoxious music in a public place, not expecting it, is inviting your demise. Feel free to carry on with such idiocy and you might be staring at the end of a gun someday. There are unstable people in society that find rude behavior intolerable...that's just a fact.
.... and you think that an armed populace is a polite one? Man, you are super off on this one.

Guns kill people. People also kill people. Guns make it way way east to kill people. Do we need to make it easier? This is that exact example where if guns weren't around, this would not have happened.

All you people with your comments about the rap, please just shove it. How does not commenting on the shooting, but only commenting on the loud music do us any good? People here are singling out the reason he got shot over the fact that he is dead. Another 17 year old who won't get to breath anymore and everyone wants to address his music? Sickening.

No one should be told to lower their music for one, its no one's business. Who cares how rude this guy was listing to his music, just roll up your window or ignore it. Who is the adult? The idiot 45 year old with a temper problem or the rude 17 year old kid. AND for two, no one should be shot over something as a superficial as this confrontation.

Idiots with guns end up acting like cowboy vigilantes. I absolutely agree that the only people who need guns are the police and military. It makes me sick to see innocence lost at the hands of morons.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:44 AM   #14
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Re: Stand your ground?

You need to educate yourself before saying foolish things.
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:24 PM   #15
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Re: Stand your ground?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterwise View Post
....
All you people with your comments about the rap, please just shove it. How does not commenting on the shooting, but only commenting on the loud music do us any good? People here are singling out the reason he got shot over the fact that he is dead. Another 17 year old who won't get to breath anymore and everyone wants to address his music? Sickening.

No one should be told to lower their music for one, its no one's business. Who cares how rude this guy was listing to his music, just roll up your window or ignore it. Who is the adult? The idiot 45 year old with a temper problem or the rude 17 year old kid. AND for two, no one should be shot over something as a superficial as this confrontation.

.
Actually those A Hole kids are purposely trying to irritate others. There is no reason to have there music blaring so loud that someone else can feel it pounding on his/her chest while inside his/her own vehicle, with the windows up and air on!
There is an Idiot in our town that actually has speakers on the OUTSIDE of his van so as to be Really Irritating. I have confronted the cops about it and they say there is nothing they can do.
There is an old saying;
You’re Rights End..Where My Rights Begin
These punks are infringing on my rights.
So there you have it, justification for a new law..

Open Season On A Holes blasting there music to loud!
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