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Old 12-10-2009, 06:33 PM   #1
hau
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Enclosed Track Gun

I have wanted an enclosed track rear handle pipe gun for years.
I don't care if it were teak, alum. or carbon fiber
I like a pipe gun better for where, what and how I spear.
The problem is that such a gun does not exist YET, as far as I know.
I do not have a shop or thousands of dollars of tooling and am happy with many guns like RA / Aimright and others EXCEPT that they ARE NOT enclosed track.
I don't want to reinvent a gun, just have a RA or Aimrite style gun WITH an enclosed track
Soooooo, I got this idea and wrote to Tin Man.

hau quote --
"Another way to skin the cat"
Jeff--If you ever get tired of answering my questions please just say so as I will fully understand.
As you know I want an enclosed track rear grip pipe gun, which doesn't exist YET.
Soooooo:
1. Why not take an existing CF barreled gun like RA, putting a shaft in the gun, then wrapping the barrel/shaft with a CF sleeve or two, after the epoxy sets, remove the shaft/dummy shaft and cut a groove into the top for the shark fins?
Thank you --end quote

Originally Posted by Tin Man
You might have something there! On the plus side, it would be easy to do, and guaranteed to be compatible with existing handles and muzzles from RA, or whoever.

The only potential downside, is that the carbon fiber sticking up might be a little more fragile than with my design, where the track is supported from the sides. But CF is pretty strong, so as long as two or more layers were applied, it might hold up. It might have to be vacuum bagged to get the CF to match the contours at the top of the barrel though.

I just bought an el-cheapo vacuum pump that I have been meaning to try. As soon as I get my current gun finished, I'll play around with some scraps and see what I can do.

You might have something there. ---end of quote


hau quote--
Thank you.
1.Agreed to all you say.
2. I'm sure it would be more fragile when the shaft is OUT of the gun.
3. This approach to getting an enclosed track gun could even be used on almost any existing wood gun like a Riffe Standard, Comp, etc and the CF or kevlar sleeve would act to bullet proof any existing gun.
4. Do you have a good sourse for CF or kevlar sleeves that you would be willing to share with me?
Thank you for your consultation

Tin Man quote--
I get most of my CF stuff from www.sollercomposites.com, and they have colored kevlar blends as well. If you need fabric in larger pieces, I have gotten it from www.jamestowndistributors.com. I have also found that www.aircraftspruce.com has a lot of good stuff.--end quote

I'm asking for any constructive suggestions or opinions from anyone about this idea of an easy way to make an enclosed track gun.
What do you guys think of this idea?
Thanks in advance

_____
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:43 PM   #2
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Re: Enclosed Track Gun

Like you I love rear-handle enclosed euro type guns. I searched far and wide and have found my dream all around gun.

Its the seasniper 130 reefpro. Its a fully enclosed teak euro gun. You can power this baby up with three bands and bluewater with it.

All this being said if Chris made a cabon fiber 150 Reefpro I would be all over it.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:09 PM   #3
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Re: Enclosed Track Gun

I have been trying to keep this under the table as it is being designed and decided on whether or not to start it, but a gun that is being spoken about will very soon exist.

The kind of work that I do has given me very good contacts with companies that can make handles, muzzles, and extrude aluminum. Having said that, the enclosed barrel is designed, the handle is designed, but the muzzle needs work. The handle is designed to accept the Neptonics trigger.

On a side note, if there turns out to be a substantial demand for it, the barrel can have a wood pattern baked into the powdercoat. So you can have an aluminum gun, that looks like dark walnut, oak, or many other possibilities.

Examples: And yes, this is aluminum. I did this for about a year to aluminum every day.
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:15 PM   #4
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Re: Enclosed Track Gun

I've seen guys just mount a premade enclosed track onto a barrel and set a gun up that way. If you're looking a cheap and simple solution. This one was an interesting hybrid build with a fully water ballasted gun, but the concept is pretty clear. Would probably work on a standard aluminum barrel (nonrailgun). Just adjust the height of the track to match up with the muzzle and trigger.
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Old 12-10-2009, 09:42 PM   #5
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Re: Enclosed Track Gun

man as i said on another post that has alwaus been my dream an enclosed track cf euro gun
i hope manufacturers see this kind of threads and launch a new gun for 2010
that would be awesom

alex
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Old 12-10-2009, 11:28 PM   #6
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Re: Enclosed Track Gun

You just got to call the right person.
www.bigdaddycustomspearguns.com
If you can dream it i can build it.
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Old 12-11-2009, 12:21 AM   #7
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Re: Enclosed Track Gun

hau,

you can take my SeaSniper Pro 130 for a test run when ever you want.

I know you like the pipe guns but the SS130 can give you a feel for what the enclosed track will be like.

Also, pike I said before I think using a pipe with no rail then adding an enclosed track with a semi circle contour cut out on the bottom to sit nicely on top of the barrel would be the cheapest way. And then wrap that set up in carbon for the badass factor.
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:29 AM   #8
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Re: Enclosed Track Gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexrom1207 View Post
I've seen guys just mount a premade enclosed track onto a barrel and set a gun up that way. If you're looking a cheap and simple solution. This one was an interesting hybrid build with a fully water ballasted gun, but the concept is pretty clear. Would probably work on a standard aluminum barrel (nonrailgun). Just adjust the height of the track to match up with the muzzle and trigger.
I hear you as I built that gun and I enjoy shooting the hell out of it. Enclosed track hybrids are the future of spearfishing. If only we could make economically that which we prototype so easily.........
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:08 AM   #9
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Re: Enclosed Track Gun

Richard - Last night it occured to me that your G10 material might be perfect. The G10 is incredibly tough, and epoxies very well.

Take a stick of G10 epoxy laminate like I used on my hybrid, and cut a track through it. Then concave the bottom to the right radius, and stick it to your CF barrel of choice after grinding off the molded in rail. Round the top edges to suit your taste. Done.

Hmm?



Last edited by Tin Man; 12-11-2009 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:43 AM   #10
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Re: Enclosed Track Gun

"You just got to call the right person.
www.bigdaddycustomspearguns.com
If you can dream it i can build it."


Well let's see. SHE would have......
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:00 AM   #11
metelin
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Re: Enclosed Track Gun

get your wallets ready, it's not cheap and i'm not sure it's totally worth it. http://www.trygons.com/index.php?opt...mid=13&lang=en
it has won several shooting comps in greece and shots very well but the water ballast thing doesn't work as the gun sinks when full of water (with the shaft out, at least mine did), the trigger mech seems flimsy and the whole gun looks and feels less like the high end gun it's suppose to be. the other carbon gun in the pic is a bleutec and it's a whole lot sturdier, no enclosed tract but it shoots a 8mm shaft with 3 16mm bands very well.

imo enclosed tracks work great if you want to shoots more than 2 bands but at that point it would be nice to have a gun with enough mass to control the recoil. less than 3 bands it's just not worth the expense, i think it's best to figure out the bands/shaft combination you want to shoot first and then try to figure out is there are any enclosed track guns that will do that effectively. if you just want an enclosed track euro style gun you already have several options. just my opinion.

steve
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:34 AM   #12
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Re: Enclosed Track Gun

The point of going enclosed track it to be able to shoot multiple short bands without shaft whip. The problem with hybrids and CF euro style guns is you still have to have enough weight [ballast] to keep the gun from recoiling when fired yet still be buoyant without the shaft. You CAN however accomplish this with a wood euro style gun.

IMHO if you want more range from a hybrid or CF euro gun,,, buy a longer gun. If you want big power and long range from a shorter gun, buy a enclosed track mid-handle gun.

Last edited by Gamble; 12-16-2009 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:34 PM   #13
hau
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Re: Enclosed Track Gun

brothers----
1. First, thank you all for taking so much time to help me get an enclosed track pipe gun.
I really appreciate everyones time and effort.
2. There have been some very good, positive and constructive ideas presented by everyone on this thread.
Thank you

3. As I mentioned before, I have no shop or thousands of dollars worth of machines to fabricate anything. All I have is an idea of an "enclosed track pipe gun" barrel. (if I did have a shop I'd be busy producing 20f lengths of CF enclosed track barrel tubing in reef, ocean blue, and other colors) to fit onto RA, Aimrite, Mako and others existing handles )
The dream is to go to FF, buy an enclosed track CF RA barrel from Mike, come home, remove my existing CF rail barrel and install the new CF enclosed track barrel.
That is the dream.
Only detail is that an" enclosed track pipe gun" barrel does not exist ( yet )
But with all your help and ideas maybe it will not be long before an "enclosed track pipe gun" will exist
Thank you all for helping me out
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Old 12-11-2009, 06:03 PM   #14
hau
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Re: Enclosed Track Gun

brothers--
I prefer a pipe gun for lots of reasons and would prefer an enclosed track pipe gun for many more reasons. But it is just my humble preference.
For me, an enclosed track pipe gun would:
1. Faster to reload. Many times I have to load my spear shaft fast without taking my eyes off a fish or spot below. It is easier to just start the shaft into the end of the enclosed track barrel, slide it into the mech, pull a band back and drop down to the fish again.
2. There is no reason that a shaft coming out of an enclosed track is LESS accurate than a shaft off of a rail and probably there is more evidence of an enclosed track shot shaft being MORE accurate.
3. Protect my spear shaft from injury while the shaft is in the gun. Less scratches and dings to the spear shaft "enclosed" in the CF
4. I pretty much grew up spearin with enclosed track homemade 6f wood guns in the GOM and got used to an enclosed track gun
5. An enclosed track pipe gun would be very fast and easy to freeshaft with.
This is just SOME of the reasons I personally prefer an "enclosed track pipe gun"
Again, just my humble preference.

1. Does anyone know the inside diam ( ID ) of RA Vecta handle barrels?-----------Ans.= 1.05 inch. OD is 1.16inch
2. Does anyone know the inside diam ( ID ) of Aimrite Venom handle barrels?------Ans.= 1.00 inch. (Thanks for the personal service Rick )
3. Does anyone know the inside diam ( ID ) of Mako's Iconic barrel?---------Ans.= 1.05 inch ( 26.65mm) ( Thanks sdeisen )
4. Does anyone know the inside diam ( ID ) of Mako's Predator barrel?-------Ans.= 1.00 inch (25.40mm) ( Thanks sdeisen)
5. Does anyone know the inside diam (ID) of Mako's new Oceanic Pro barrel????______________________
6. Does anybody know the outside diam (OD) of Mako's new Oceanic Pro barrel?_____________________
Thanks again for all your help
___
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SPEARFISHING and RECREATIONAL FISHING NEEDS THE NRA

Last edited by hau; 12-22-2009 at 04:56 PM. Reason: added dia. for RA
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Old 12-11-2009, 06:33 PM   #15
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Re: Enclosed Track Gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamble View Post
The point of going enclosed track it to be able to shoot multiple short bands without shaft whip. The problem with hybrids and CF euro style guns is you still have to have enough weight [ballast] to keep the gun from recoiling when fired yet still be buoyant without the shaft. You CAN however accomplish theirs with a wood euro style gun.

IMHO if you want more range from a hybrid or CF euro gun,,, buy a longer gun. If you want big power and long range from a shorter gun, buy a enclosed track mid-handle gun.
I think you nailed it. The concept sounds cool and I dreamed about it too, but I agree that if you make it heavy enough to handle the increased power, it wont float. A enclosed wood gun or a really long euro seem to be the only answer.
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