Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > United States Geographical Locations > California Spearfishing

California Spearfishing Talk here about spearfishing on California's Pacific Coast, and post those reports and photos!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-18-2018, 03:22 PM   #1
spearomurray
Registered User
 
spearomurray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 43
Float Stackup

Hey Guys,
I just finished building and ballasting my new 165. I'm now looking at various blue water floats and wanted to do a spec stackup. I grabbed data from manufacturers of some of the more reputable floats and crunched some numbers to figure out what the buoyancy at depth for each float would be. The curves in the figure below show buoyancy while the buoy is being dragged to the crush depth, then buoyancy during crush.

I did NOT take into account drag, durability, ease of repair, or performance on the surface. I did work this into other models, but i need to play with them a bit before I'm confident enough to put my name on those results.

With that said, if you're looking for pure stopping power with one float, the Gannett 100 is the way to go. It's massive at 47.1L and will the best choice for keeping fish off the reef in shallow water. It's also the most expensive float at almost $400 retail.

The riffe 3 atm has been a flagship float for the blue water community for a long time now and has demonstrated its reliability and durability. However, it offers comparable performance to the Rob Allen Remora 35 during crush and exerts slightly less buoyant force at the surface. The internal bladder also makes it a pain to repair and it's expensive at $360 retail. For another $40 you can get a gannett 100.

The Rob Allen Remora 35 has about the same stopping power as the Riffe 3 atm, and most notably comes at a reasonable $220. Additionally, PVC construction makes this float very easy to repair anywhere in the world. An additional note, you can buy two Remora 35's for $40 more than the price of a single Gannett 100. I projected the buoyant force of two Remoras connected by a 30m bungee in dashed green (doesn't take into account effect of bungee on modulating force of second buoy). Two Remora 35's offer significantly greater stopping power vs. a Gannett 100 for fish in deep blue water. You're less likely to lose your gear if you hit something big. For those of you willing to go with a more complicated buoy system this is likely the way to go.


Lastly I looked at the Ocean Hunter 3 atm. This is the highest pressure float on the market at 45 psi and it's built like a tank. Despite it being the smallest float of the bunch, it performs on par with the Gannett 100 when they're both at depth. This occurs because a float's buoyant force at depth is a function of its initial pressure*volume. That is the lower pressure but larger Gannett exerts the same buoyant force as the higher pressure but lower volume Ocean Hunter float when experiencing crush. Another way of looking at this is the Gannett 100 starts crushing at a shallower depth and is the same volume as the Ocean Hunter float when both are past their crush point and are at the same depth. Having said that, the Gannett 100 will exert more drag force than the ocean hunter. The Ocean hunter comes in at reasonable $290 retail and is much lighter than the Gannett 100 (4.5 lbs vs. 6.25 lbs). If you're already running a multi-float system, travel to spear often, and expect to see your fish regularly heading for the bottom of the Marianas trench, the Ocean hunter might be a good option.

Cheers guys, I hope this is useful with BFT season coming in hot and heavy. I look forward to your feedback.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Float_comparison_imperial.jpg
Views:	756
Size:	32.9 KB
ID:	238469  

Last edited by spearomurray; 06-18-2018 at 04:45 PM. Reason: image upload
spearomurray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 04:09 PM   #2
jfjf
.
 
jfjf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Palm Bch County
Posts: 10,414
Re: Float Stackup

I looked at a website and it says the riffes 3 atm float has a maximum pressure of 25 psi.

So that means at a depth of around 56 feet it will be soft and will begin to compress and loose lift. Is that consistent with your data/plot??

They also mention 95 Lbs of lift at 66 feet so the float must start out with over 95 lbs of lift at the surface- assuming the specifications are correct.
jfjf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 04:38 PM   #3
spearomurray
Registered User
 
spearomurray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 43
Re: Float Stackup

Hey jfjf,
The 56 ft crush initiation depth is consistent with my plots. I can be a little hard to tell with the x-data scale. I can post a plot with more detail on the x-scale.

The riffe float specifications state the float volume as 33L. This gives a buoyancy force of 72.5 lbf. Taking gravity into account brings this value down to 69.8 lbf maximum lift force. Not sure where they're getting their 100 lbf lift value. But I'm happy to hear from someone who has data that indicates otherwise.
spearomurray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 05:07 PM   #4
spearomurray
Registered User
 
spearomurray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 43
Re: Float Stackup

Another way to rationalize the Riffe 3 atm lift is to compare it to the Ocean Hunter 3 atm. If you've handled them before, you'll know they have very very similar volumes and shapes. The ocean hunter only claims to maintain a lift force of 54 lbf at 66 ft. Lift force is only a function of float volume and weight.

Sources for data on Ocean Hunter 3 atm:
http://bluetunaspearfishing.com/andr...oat-clone.html

https://www.freediveshop.com/shop/fl...er-3atm-float/
spearomurray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 05:57 PM   #5
jfjf
.
 
jfjf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Palm Bch County
Posts: 10,414
Re: Float Stackup

Thanks, you might want to replot it with a max depth of 200 feet or something seems reasonable and also include grid lines. And a 100 feet of negative depth can also be pulled to make it easier to read.

You also might want to include the MAKO high Pressure floats in the comparison. They are not so expensive.
jfjf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 06:33 PM   #6
2fishin2
Pacific Spearo
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 56
Posts: 3,172
Re: Float Stackup

A few points to ponder from a guy who has been through a lot of different floats:

First I have a question....have you ever seen or held a Gannet float? If so, how can you say the Ocean Hunter float is built like a tank and not mention the Gannet? Hands down of all the floats you mentioned and actually all I have seen and used the Gannet floats are the best. I haven't seen or used the Ocean Hunter and they might be better value for money. The Gannet floats are the true tanks of spearfishing floats now. Yes I am partial to them but that comes after many years of use of the others.

Have you looked at Sporasub or Evolve? Spearmaster/Mako for value?

What kind of inflation do you have on the Ocean Hunter? Is it oral or air station inflatable?

Of all the floats you mentioned, the Gannett is the best built float no questions asked.

There is much more to floats other than basic calculations and ratings etc. You are doing the right thing by coming here and asking questions but don't get so wrapped up in the left calculations you miss the most important features. Valves, type of fill mechanisms, durability all are as important as lift.

You mentioned float weight....something I would not worry about. A 2lb difference is so minimal I would never think about it. The bonus is that +2lb is made up in structural integrity of the float.

Whatever you decide good luck. Don't get so caught up in figures you miss other very important features of floats.
2fishin2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 06:46 PM   #7
kingfisherflesh
Happy Huntin'
 
kingfisherflesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wherever the fish take me
Posts: 714
Re: Float Stackup

Two pounds isnt minimal when one is traveling with 50lbs to pack...the sportube takes 14 of those...so you are left with 36 pounds to chase fish...saving four pounds on two floats isn't a small difference.

Also - no promotion of any float over another, but it seems that you are guilty of what you are accusing the OP of...saying gannett is the best when you dont know even basic facts on the Ocean Hunter.

Gannett floats look badass - and the numbers here suggest that they are. He names them as the top float, and they are priced as such.

I have ocean hunter floats and cant tell you that they have stopped any monsters - but the pressure they hold is impressive and you forget about them on the surface. Very easy to pull around.

Construction is heavy duty and can handle a lot of abuse which they get being owned by me and living in a third world.

Yes, you can easily orally inflate them or pressure inflate them even without any tools. I've taken them to full inflation just holding them to where any pressurized air is coming out. Easy.

Its a good float for sure - and a much more reasonable price tag.
__________________
Dude, put the controllers down and go dive!!!----David Deman

WISCONSIN SPEARGUN HUNTERS
kingfisherflesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 08:45 PM   #8
spearomurray
Registered User
 
spearomurray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 43
Re: Float Stackup

Thanks for all the feedback guys, much appreciated. As I mentioned before discussing the pros and cons of each float, I'm not making any claims regarding durability or built quality. Despite built quality usually being apparent, I definitely think it's one of those subjective calls that varies from diver to diver. The floats I selected seem to be what people are taking fish with. I wanted an objective standard by which to compare these floats.

2fishin2, I do think maybe it would be useful to get a chart going detailing other features like valves, fill mechanisms, weight, etc...and I agree with you that the Gannett is pretty much the pinnacle of the float world at this point, albeit with a price tag that reflects that. I haven't taken a look at the Mako, sporasub, or spearmaster floats yet. I might tackle those next time I get a long lunch break. One thing to note, some of the spearmaster floats were foam filled. The compression characteristics would likely be difficult to model unless done from empirical data. Having beaten up alot of floats, you have any favorites?

kingfisherflesh, packing my sportube for my NZ trip was exactly what I was thinking of when looking at float weight. I was right there at the 50 lb mark. Now that I've added a pound of lead to my 10 lb gun for ballast, it's going to be even more difficult to stay under 50 lb.

I think I'm going to go with two remora 35's, or one gannett and a small 7L hard/foam filled float. I've got to plan for air travel as I don't live in an area known for pelagics.
spearomurray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 11:17 PM   #9
jfjf
.
 
jfjf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Palm Bch County
Posts: 10,414
Re: Float Stackup

MAKO HP floats are pretty tough, I've yet to damage mine!
jfjf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 06:42 AM   #10
2fishin2
Pacific Spearo
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 56
Posts: 3,172
Re: Float Stackup

a wise man once said....

ya gotta pay to play

Pony up for a business class ticket and nobody will question your baggage allowance
2fishin2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 04:15 PM   #11
MAKO Spearguns
Sponsor
 
MAKO Spearguns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,164
Re: Float Stackup

Hey Spearomurry,

You mentioned some very high quality floats in your post.

If you get a chance, please take a look at my MAKO high pressure floats. I designed these floats with a rugged Zodiac nose cone for enhanced durability and to reduce drag. I also placed the inflate valve at the rear of the float so as to not get caught on your buddies floatline, and added a handle at the rear for added safety. I also included a heavy duty D ring on the front and an additional D ring on the back for connecting additional floats or gear. These are awesome floats and are available in 15L, 30L and 60L.

Check out this video where I take a MAKO Kona Kill Knife to the Zodiac nose cone.


https://youtu.be/j5JnfNuoScA

__________________


http://www.makospearguns.com/

http://www.facebook.com/makospearguns

Proud Supporter of the Fisher House and paws4vets

Same factories -Same high quality gear -Without the dive shop mark ups!
MAKO Spearguns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2018, 11:17 AM   #12
dctrjayyy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tustin, CA
Age: 40
Posts: 190
Re: Float Stackup

Gannett is the best built. Downside, tough to travel with and without a smaller float in front I've seen fish tear off from the shear stopping power once the bungee is stretched.

Ocean Hunter is built great, travels well and imo the best overall solution. Granted, it would be tough to repair on the fly unlike a pvc float. Luckily, I haven't had the need to do that yet.
dctrjayyy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2018, 09:47 PM   #13
Red Tide
Registered User
 
Red Tide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 1,260
Re: Float Stackup

I would buy the Spearmaster Floats from Neptonics. By far the best value and they get the job done. Get two of them with a 25 ft bungee go between and you can take down most fish up to 200 lbs. Add a third float and another bungee if you are targeting fish bigger than 200 lbs.
__________________
"It's not a problem... If you can fix it with money it's just an expense"
Red Tide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2018, 09:54 AM   #14
techspearo
Registered User
 
techspearo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10
Re: Float Stackup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Tide View Post
I would buy the Spearmaster Floats from Neptonics. By far the best value and they get the job done. Get two of them with a 25 ft bungee go between and you can take down most fish up to 200 lbs. Add a third float and another bungee if you are targeting fish bigger than 200 lbs.
Is there any difference between the Spearmaster Float by Neptonics and the Mako high pressure one Dano mentioned? They both look similar and mention the zodiac cone material.
__________________
Check out Cast & Spear, just because...
techspearo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2018, 10:53 AM   #15
dctrjayyy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tustin, CA
Age: 40
Posts: 190
Re: Float Stackup

Quote:
Originally Posted by techspearo View Post
Is there any difference between the Spearmaster Float by Neptonics and the Mako high pressure one Dano mentioned? They both look similar and mention the zodiac cone material.
I have the Mako and my buddy used to run the Spearmaster. They were very similar. The are both good value and will do the job. The Spearmaster had to be repaired several times but that is easy to do with that construction. Not in the league of the Ocean Hunter/Riffe/Gannet/etc. but get the job done if you want to spend less.
dctrjayyy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:46 AM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com