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Old 09-19-2018, 03:14 PM   #1
Rosstnfound
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Ermesub Double Roller in mid handle?

I am a bit concerned about the light trigger pull of the Ermesub DR for use with a push rod in a mid handle. Any issues? Suggestion? Should I add a spring?

Thanks!
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:04 PM   #2
SEATUX
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Re: Ermesub Double Roller in mid handle?

You should be concerned if it was a hard to pull trigger, cause adding another trigger and push rod would make it even harder.
Go for it, I don't think it is an issue.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:47 PM   #3
Rosstnfound
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Re: Ermesub Double Roller in mid handle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEATUX View Post
You should be concerned if it was a hard to pull trigger, cause adding another trigger and push rod would make it even harder.
Go for it, I don't think it is an issue.
Thanks Seatux. My concern is hitting the butt of the gun while loaded and having the momentum of the push rod, push the trigger back and release.
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Old 09-20-2018, 02:27 PM   #4
Behslayer
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Re: Ermesub Double Roller in mid handle?

carbon fiber pushrod?
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Old 09-20-2018, 03:05 PM   #5
Rosstnfound
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Re: Ermesub Double Roller in mid handle?

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carbon fiber pushrod?
That would work. I like it.
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Old 09-20-2018, 05:28 PM   #6
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Re: Ermesub Double Roller in mid handle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosstnfound View Post
Thanks Seatux. My concern is hitting the butt of the gun while loaded and having the momentum of the push rod, push the trigger back and release.
use 1/8" diameter rod instead of 3/16" which is what most use. Less likely to accidentally fire the gun if it's bumped
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Old 09-20-2018, 06:11 PM   #7
popgun pete
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Re: Ermesub Double Roller in mid handle?

You could try using a Jack Prodanovich “Active Safety” on your remote trigger. The trigger A cannot move back as it is blocked by active safety cam B which is biased by a torsion spring shown in blue. However if jiggle pin C is pushed in by your finger on the trigger it raises the nose end of the safety cam B so that the rear edge of trigger A can then push the active safety cam B up in the direction of the green arrow thereby allowing the trigger to fire the gun.
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:35 PM   #8
Behslayer
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Re: Ermesub Double Roller in mid handle?

Actually thinking about it again, a Fiberglass Push Rodd would be better as it would not have the Galvanic Corrosion..or you could end dip the Carbon Fiber in Epoxy. Not that it matters as it's your own gun and you can clean it off from time to time.
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:53 AM   #9
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Re: Ermesub Double Roller in mid handle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
You could try using a Jack Prodanovich “Active Safety” on your remote trigger.
Great implementation of a safety. However it doesn't solve the issue of having the inertia of the push rod activating the mechanism.

Could you use a rubber/latex bushing to prevent the rod to jiggle arround by itself? It will add some drag to the trigger assembly (dictated by the length and tightness of the bushing) and may need to be reset manually but it will take care of the issue of bump firing.

Mikel
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:30 AM   #10
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Re: Ermesub Double Roller in mid handle?

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Originally Posted by Mikel_24 View Post
Great implementation of a safety. However it doesn't solve the issue of having the inertia of the push rod activating the mechanism.

Could you use a rubber/latex bushing to prevent the rod to jiggle arround by itself? It will add some drag to the trigger assembly (dictated by the length and tightness of the bushing) and may need to be reset manually but it will take care of the issue of bump firing.

Mikel
Link the pushrod to the trigger by a pin and bifurcated end on the rod to make the mounting for the pin.
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:36 AM   #11
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Re: Ermesub Double Roller in mid handle?

Thanks guys!

Quote:
Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
You could try using a Jack Prodanovich “Active Safety” on your remote trigger.
I have always liked that safety. It seems like the only safety that requires only proper shooting finger placement to "unset"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
Actually thinking about it again, a Fiberglass Push Rodd would be better as it would not have the Galvanic Corrosion..or you could end dip the Carbon Fiber in Epoxy. Not that it matters as it's your own gun and you can clean it off from time to time.
I had not thought about galvanic corrosion. I will go with epoxy on Carbon fiber but I am wondering how I can possible do a dogleg bend in it like with metal pushrods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel_24 View Post
Could you use a rubber/latex bushing to prevent the rod to jiggle arround by itself? It will add some drag to the trigger assembly (dictated by the length and tightness of the bushing) and may need to be reset manually but it will take care of the issue of bump firing
Mikel
Interesting. That would work but I do like the return spring on the trigger mechanism to be able to return the remote trigger to its ready position. I don't want to do that manually. Wondering if the bushing could gunk up too?


Quote:
Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
Link the pushrod to the trigger by a pin and bifurcated end on the rod to make the mounting for the pin.
So use the Prodonovich trigger safety with the attached pushrod. That would keep the pushrod from sliding unless remote trigger was purposely pulled. I will be using an AR handle frame so that might be tough to build into the handle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanmc View Post
use 1/8" diameter rod instead of 3/16" which is what most use. Less likely to accidentally fire the gun if it's bumped
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing and planning on using 3mm carbon fiber rod (Slightly less than 1/8").

Last edited by Rosstnfound; 09-21-2018 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:13 PM   #12
popgun pete
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Re: Ermesub Double Roller in mid handle?

A source of ideas if not the actual execution in terms of connecting a pushrod to the remote trigger.
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:00 PM   #13
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Re: Ermesub Double Roller in mid handle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
Link the pushrod to the trigger by a pin and bifurcated end on the rod to make the mounting for the pin.
POPGUN...Please Explain...
WTF is "bifurcated"?
A Picture would help!
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:11 PM   #14
popgun pete
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Re: Ermesub Double Roller in mid handle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEATUX View Post
POPGUN...Please Explain...
WTF is "bifurcated"?
A Picture would help!
A forked end, i.e. split into two pieces that are still connected at the base, in other words like a "Y" but with straight sides not at an angle as they are at the top of capital letter Y.
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:06 AM   #15
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Re: Ermesub Double Roller in mid handle?

The DR trigger works like a normal trigger so I think installing it on a mid handle with a push rod would be pretty much the same process as you do with other triggers. As for the safety, the DR does have a safety that you can buy for around 15 euros and if you can manage to navigate through the Italian google translation you will see it here https://www.ermes-sub.net/double-roll-wings.html

I have never tried this safety as I believe that safeties on spearguns give a false sense of security. With a firearm the energy is stored in powder that has yet to ignite ... so you only need to prevent the firing pin from getting hit and igniting the powder to release the energy ... not so difficult to do. With a speargun things are different ... all the energy is already loaded and ready to go ... and the spear is on a track rather than a fully enclosed chamber. A safety will block the trigger from moving back, but with a well placed bump the sears will still be able to disengage. There is also the possibility of dirt or even small corrosion that can lock the shaft sear up ... and give you a false sense that the gun is locked ... but really the sear has dropped and the shaft might come off at any time. That is why I don't believe in safeties on spearguns. The best safety is to consider a speargun as a perpetual deadly laser that vaporises everything that moves in its path ... except for fish you want to shoot ... for that you have to pull the trigger.
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