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Old 02-22-2012, 10:02 AM   #16
fishouttawatta
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Re: Greece

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By the way, you can stick RP into the presidency but he wont have control over the purse strings and I dont care if it was Jesus Christ himself in the Oval Office I dont think he would be able to change the power structure within Congress to do doodely squat.
I think RP can do allot to bring the problems to the lime light but agree that he won't be able to change as much as people think. I have no doubts that he will try but the way the system is set up he will get to much opposition.

Real government change will only occur when we get the money out of politics and impose term limits on congress.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:11 AM   #17
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Re: Greece

Great article that illuminates all that is going wrong lately. Also, explains why Greece just isn't Greece or the EU's problem and will soon be our problem.


When Risk Is Disconnected From Consequence, The System Itself Is At Risk

"When Risk Is Disconnected From Consequence, the System Itself Is at Risk

If we understand risk cannot be eliminated, it can only be transferred, then we will understand why the current financial trickery in Europe and elsewhere is doomed to fail.

The entire global economy's fundamental financial instability can be traced back to one simple rule of Nature: risk cannot be eliminated, it can only be transferred to others or masked. And when it is transferred to others or masked, then the causal feedback between risk and consequence is severed.

Once risk has been disconnected from consequence, then it is impossible to discover the price of capital and risk. Once capital and risk have been mispriced, then the inevitable result is misallocation of capital and a positive feedback loop of self-referential, self-reinforcing risk.

Once the causal negative feedback of the real world--consequence--is no longer available to those taking on risk, then only positive feedback remains. Positive feedback inevitably leads to runaway reactions that self-destruct..."
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:48 PM   #18
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Re: Greece

The Pillaging and Looting of Greece
...no, not by protestors...by the bankers!
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:54 PM   #19
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Re: Greece

Greece has 5.8 billion in gold reserves, not enough to help out Greece or the bankers. Fact of the matter is they will default, its just a matter of when. When they do then it will be interesting to see what happens. They also have an election coming up soon, enough austerity and they may elect a government that will say enough is enough, what ever happens Greece will be the poor man of Europe once again.
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:58 PM   #20
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Re: Greece

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The Pillaging and Looting of Greece
...no, not by protestors...by the bankers!
I find it ironic that the woman who was quoted in the NYT piece was a labor minister in one of the governments which was responsible for this mess in the first place and now as a member of the european parliament she votes against the bailout. Looks like she wants it both ways.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:01 PM   #21
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Re: Greece

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Greece has 5.8 billion in gold reserves, not enough to help out Greece or the bankers. Fact of the matter is they will default, its just a matter of when. When they do then it will be interesting to see what happens. They also have an election coming up soon, enough austerity and they may elect a government that will say enough is enough, what ever happens Greece will be the poor man of Europe once again.
Trick for the EU is to stretch the time to a point where it will not drag EU with it.
The language of the deal allows EU to permanently monitor Greek finances, and the ability to pull out at a moments notice.
Don't remember who, but I read a quote that said something like "allow the EU to pull out when other safeguards are in place" In context the safeguards were for the EU, not Greece.
The 130 billion euro bailout did not take into the account that the Greek economy is going downhill. I think the last figures were around 7%. Not tragic, but not looking very good for investments that are necessary to maintain the goal of 120.5% by 2020. Some models showed a debt of 160% by 2020 with the bailout. Back to square one.
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Old 02-23-2012, 12:13 AM   #22
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Re: Greece

The problem with islands; they usually lack enough natural resources, the amount of land is limited so usually expensive, the people that live there like to party too much and are usually stubborn, the plentiful land and resources people always dream of living there (and taking over). Which is exactly what happened to Greece, and Ireland, and Portugal and will keep happening. As long as rich guys in power dream of that jewel in the water, they will show up with the money and make promises and deals to take over. Greece is not having it.

The EU came in with boatloads of money, totally transformed the zoning and property rights laws (make UN Agenda 21 look like a plan for a 3 year olds birthday party) and promised the Islanders to live like the rich and famous and party all the time. Aka, a leveraged takeover. The future of Greece is the future of Freedom as men have known it for eons. "The world is a changin' "
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:29 AM   #23
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Re: Greece

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Spaghetti, are you out there? What's happening on the home front with Spearboard's token Greek?
Spaghetti....Greek? Really.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:07 AM   #24
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Re: Greece

Projected PIIGS Pillage: 3233.5 Tons Of Gold To Be Confiscated By Insolvent European Banks

"While hardly discussed broadly in the mainstream media, the top news of the past 24 hours without doubt is that in addition to losing its fiscal sovereignty, and numerous other things, the Greek population is about to lose its gold in a perfectly legitimate fashion, following amendments to the country's constitution by unelected banker technocrats, who will make it legal for Greek creditors - read insolvent European banks - to plunder the Greek gold which at last check amounts to 111.6 tonnes according to the WGC. And so we come full circle to what the ultimate goal of banker intervention in the European periphery is - nothing short of full gold confiscation..."


So..when our traitorous politicians run our country into the ground, will they also let them come take our gold too? I suspect so, after all, that appears to be the end game anyhow.
Absurd isn't it? Bankrupt a country with worthless fiat paper then come in and take their gold?
How many countries have the Central bankers done this to now?
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:02 AM   #25
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Re: Greece

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Old 02-23-2012, 10:12 AM   #26
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Re: Greece

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Projected PIIGS Pillage: 3233.5 Tons Of Gold To Be Confiscated By Insolvent European Banks

"While hardly discussed broadly in the mainstream media, the top news of the past 24 hours without doubt is that in addition to losing its fiscal sovereignty, and numerous other things, the Greek population is about to lose its gold in a perfectly legitimate fashion, following amendments to the country's constitution by unelected banker technocrats, who will make it legal for Greek creditors - read insolvent European banks - to plunder the Greek gold which at last check amounts to 111.6 tonnes according to the WGC. And so we come full circle to what the ultimate goal of banker intervention in the European periphery is - nothing short of full gold confiscation..."


So..when our traitorous politicians run our country into the ground, will they also let them come take our gold too? I suspect so, after all, that appears to be the end game anyhow.
Absurd isn't it? Bankrupt a country with worthless fiat paper then come in and take their gold?
How many countries have the Central bankers done this to now?
You cannot make loans then claim you can't repay while sitting on a pile of gold. They made the loans now time for them to pay up. Sad....hell yes. If I did the same, took loans and defaulted, they would come and take my stuff too.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:47 AM   #27
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Re: Greece

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You cannot make loans then claim you can't repay while sitting on a pile of gold. They made the loans now time for them to pay up. Sad....hell yes. If I did the same, took loans and defaulted, they would come and take my stuff too.
But it was the corrupt politicians that took the loans out for all it's citizens. Now the citizens have to pay for these crooks' actions? The same thing is happening in this country. We have traitors in the WH, beholden to the bankers, trying to put us into the same situation. They're going to take our gold with worthless fiat paper printing as soon as they break us with these endless wars, shipping our jobs overseas, ever growing budget and size of gov't...all feeding off the trough of the people.
I can't fathom why people stick up for these crooks. I guess maybe reality will hit them in the head like a brick someday. It has for Greece.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:51 AM   #28
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Re: Greece

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But it was the corrupt politicians that took the loans out for all it's citizens. Now the citizens have to pay for their mistakes.
The same thing is happening in this country. We have traitors in the WH beholden to the bankers trying to put us into the same situation. They're going to take our gold with worthless fiat paper printing.
Those corrupt politicians in Greece were continuously re-elected by the people in free and fair elections. Unlike here most european nations have very strict rules regarding the influence of outside money on elections. The people were happy as long as the gravy train was running but now that the bill is due they are up in arms. I don't recall many Greeks upset when their country borrowed billions to pay for the Olympics in 2004, they were actually proud to bask in the spotlight for a while.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:55 AM   #29
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Re: Greece

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Those corrupt politicians in Greece were continuously re-elected by the people in free and fair elections. Unlike here most european nations have very strict rules regarding the influence of outside money on elections. The people were happy as long as the gravy train was running but now that the bill is due they are up in arms. I don't recall many Greeks upset when their country borrowed billions to pay for the Olympics in 2004, they were actually proud to bask in the spotlight for a while.
It takes a complicit controlled MSM for that to happen. When they keep the populace ignorant of what's really happening, the people don't care.
The same thing is happening here with the MSM. On top of that, we have them running our schools too...keeping the citizens ignorant in that respect too. Another reason to end the dept. of Education.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:59 AM   #30
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Re: Greece

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But it was the corrupt politicians that took the loans out for all it's citizens. Now the citizens have to pay for these crooks' actions? The same thing is happening in this country. We have traitors in the WH, beholden to the bankers, trying to put us into the same situation. They're going to take our gold with worthless fiat paper printing as soon as they break us with these endless wars, shipping our jobs overseas, ever growing budget and size of gov't...all feeding off the trough of the people.
I can't fathom why people stick up for these crooks. I guess maybe reality will hit them in the head like a brick someday. It has for Greece.
I hate FIAT currencies and fractional reserve banking as much as anyone and agree that they are crooks. But you have to agree to play the game. Greece agreed to play the game. They lost. We are losing.

Kind of of topic, Marcus have you ever read "the creature from jekyll island"? I am about have way through this book. Eye opening to say the least.
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