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Old 04-17-2018, 04:39 AM   #76
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Re: Our friend has passed. Kostadin SEAL

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Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
This clip from Perrin James shows the kind of currents. The longer film shows some of the spearfishing in these kind of areas.

https://vimeo.com/146308558

https://vimeo.com/144812121
RIP Kosta. I am very sad to read this. Thoughts to his family and close ones. I did not know him in any closer way than by his contributions to the community with his awesome guns, and his participation on the forums.


On a side note, those currents look extremely dangerous! Even for a local with tons of knowledge and experience of that particular environment the risk that things turn to shit is immediate.
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Old 04-17-2018, 09:51 AM   #77
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Re: Our friend has passed. Kostadin SEAL

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I keep coming back to the idea of an Intro Vest.. Self Actuated. Simple Neoprene Overvest attached to weight belt or crotch strap. Drive the cost down by 75%. Get people used to wearing vests. A diver in trouble can self trigger. A buddy could also trigger. I know it doesn't cover everything.. The one time I blacked out I Knew I was in trouble. There was no doubt in my mind.. I can't help but think that Kosta knew he was in trouble. I'm not as well travelled as many of you. I don't have so many friends and less dive buddies. I know a few of my friends have and use FRV, but to date I have been in the water with one once. To me it makes sense to develop an Intro Vest to get more people wearing something.
This is a super idea! I'd get one in an instance!

For someone like me that live in a location not allowing me to freedive or spearfish to the extent I wish I could. All the action I see is during the time I'm spending in Greece 2 months/yr and to splash out 1000$ for that short period of usage, on top of all other costs involved in travelling and the long stay abroad.. well it's a bit off-putting. Even though I know this is the piece of gear I probably need most as I am always diving alone, and I don't have regular training of deep diving.

If there was a simplified, scaled down alternative to the FRV costing in the region of 250-300$, well that would be awesome for someone like me!

Maybe even a combo of weight vest / FRV?
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Old 04-20-2018, 07:17 AM   #78
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Re: Our friend has passed. Kostadin SEAL

You can get a camo safety vest with cord-triggered CO2 cartridge on Aliexpress for about 30 US$
With all due respect to my childhood hero Dr. Terry Maas, the reason for so few people to use the FRV is its price. The price and the encapsulated production and support. It is as simple as that. If the vest was widely manufactured, I am sure all development costs would have been recovered years ago. Because let's face it - neither the computer or the materials used in the FRV are that expensive, of if they are it is to a large extent due to exactly the small scale of production.
And I will give you an example, I am sure Dr. Maas will recall - the SOS Decompression Measuring Device was initially developed in a garage somewhere in the mid 60s. And it remained one of the most widely used SCUBA device for 20 years, until it was replaced by digital devices. Because the invention was available for big SCUBA equipment manufacturers at the time to manufacture it. With SCUBAPRO being the largest. As a result - everyone had one!

Yes, I have heard the arguments regarding the quality control and the fear of lawsuits. I heard the argument that the vest is personally tailored to you. I do not accept these, both as a common sense person and a lawyer. I am sorry. I have no idea why the FRV is not widely manufactured - there is a long list of people in the FRV patent who can probably answer this question as well, besides Dr. Maas.

But people buy expensive gear and they overlook the safety and it will always be like that because that's how people are. And you cannot rely on changing the human nature with a snap of the fingers. Unless you are ready to accept that people will continue to die in the process.

Kostadin called me few days before leaving on this goddamn trip. He wanted the cheapest possible 150$ 5mm wetsuit. He didn't buy it because he didn't like the new camo pattern - he liked too much the old one he had of the same brand. He wanted to go out to a once in a lifetime dream destination and spearfish. Do you expect him to get the FRV at $1000, which turns to ~$1500 at least if you export it to EU? I don't.

This is the absolute bitter truth. Until a time comes, when freediving safety devices become a standard affordable part of our equipment like the fins and wetsuits, people will continue to die.

My personal opinion and I do not expect you to agree with it.

Ivan
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Old 04-20-2018, 10:49 AM   #79
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Re: Our friend has passed. Kostadin SEAL

Yeah, I think the whole concept should be marketed (as it is basically unheard of, other than in these unfortunate threads) and the price should be dumped to near break even as to get the sales going.

Do some campaigns and get some influencers to promote it. Once this product gets a more achievable price level, and you manage to open up a market / get people used to the product this has all the chances to be a standard equipment among freedivers and spearfishermen. As is, the price level is above what most would concider.
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:53 AM   #80
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Re: Our friend has passed. Kostadin SEAL

Maybe just a simple version of the vest in the link meant for freediving would be great.
https://www.amazon.com/Eyson-Inflata...MVHKC8XMY&th=1
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:08 PM   #81
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Re: Our friend has passed. Kostadin SEAL

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Kostadin called me few days before leaving on this goddamn trip. He wanted the cheapest possible 150$ 5mm wetsuit. He didn't buy it because he didn't like the new camo pattern - he liked too much the old one he had of the same brand. He wanted to go out to a once in a lifetime dream destination and spearfish. Do you expect him to get the FRV at $1000, which turns to ~$1500 at least if you export it to EU? I don't.
I bet he spent more than $1500 on the trip. Skip one trip, get the FRV, and live through all the trips thereafter. I do not accept the idea that the FRV is too expensive. The problem is that people value life too cheap.
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Old 04-21-2018, 04:51 AM   #82
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Re: Our friend has passed. Kostadin SEAL

I can't figure out if the FRV is cheap or expensive, though as a freelancer with very varying income I sometimes think the latter. Furthermore, what is expensive to one man, is cheap to another so I think it is futile that a group tries to definitively decide whether it is expensive or not.
What I do agree with is that if it is even cheaper than it is now, it should help sell more of them. Would it sell more than double of what it does now by halving the price? I have zero idea about that and perhaps Terry and his partners don't either. If they aren't selling that many of them, perhaps doubling sales wouldn't be that hard but it's all speculation.

As for the cheap inflatable options on Aliexpress I had a quick look; I think they are all lacking an over-pressure valve which I reckon is a very important feature of the FRV. I think the cheap, non-computerized, ones are meant to only keep a person on the surface, not bringing one up from depth. They seem to have a volume that corresponds directly to the volume of a 33g CO2 cylinder and if that is true, I am speculating that a 15l vest powered by a 33g cylinder may be compressed at depth. If it really just fills up the vest fully at the surface it would only fill it up 1/3 at 20m and 1/4 at 30m giving about 5kg and 3.75kg of lift. With the FRV, if you are diving deep, you use bigger cylinders, so that the vest doesn't suffer (as much) compression at depth. Once you ascent the over-pressure valve releases the expanding air keeping the vest at its max volume while not bursting.

That said, the Chinese vests are definitely cheap as chips and as others have talked about, it shouldn't be that hard to take off-the-shelf parts and improve on the product. Mainly by adding a release valve and bigger cylinders. I don't know the coverage of the FRV patents and if there would be any issues.
If there is, perhaps Terry can consider a Tesla move and give up all the patents;-). I don't think Elon Musk did it to save the world, rather he probably did it to let the competition get into the market faster thinking that once other big name car brands produce proper electrical cars, the idea is vouched for and Tesla will sell even more cars as a result.

Personally, I am getting closer and closer to an FRV for myself. Just need to work more and give up on some other things I would like to buy, too. I would trust the quality of Terry's vest infinitely more and be happy to wear the original.

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 04-24-2018 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 04-21-2018, 01:42 PM   #83
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Re: Our friend has passed. Kostadin SEAL

I'm currently shorting the hell out of Tesla. It's a farce. The vest is a great product. One just has to make it cheaper. Utilizing the current China cheap labor market is an option. I may have some contacts, if interested.
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