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Old 09-17-2015, 07:47 AM   #16
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Re: US Marines tested all-male squads against mixed-gender ones, and results were ble

You're going pick out my description of "really good" in an analogy but not the article's "notable difference"? What is a "notable difference", 72% accuracy instead of 71%?

The Men squad's performance had a "notable difference" in 69% of evaluated tasks. This implies the Mixed squad's performance was similar or better in 31% of tasks. And then there is an issue of uneven experience between the men and women in the tests... Where did you get "women got their tails handed to them in every measurable way versus the all male squads"?


I don't have much of an opinion on women vs. men blah blah I'm just picking the article apart since its full of the typical click-bait skewed statistics and assumptions.


I will rephrase my original question without numbers so its not confusing: Did they lower the standards/requirements to join for women? If the requirements are the same who cares or what difference does it make?
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Old 09-17-2015, 08:42 AM   #17
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Re: US Marines tested all-male squads against mixed-gender ones, and results were ble

What part about underperforming the all male squads in most of the ways measured or "slower", "less accurate", and more "prone to injury" seems appealing to you?

And to answer your question; http://www.military.com/military-fit...smc-pft-charts

Obviously they do not have the same physical standards for women and men. otherwise they would have almost no women.

But I appreciate the kindness in rephrasing your soft-headed question so as to make it less confusing without all thum thur high fallootin' numbers an' all.

Women don't compete against men in any sport involving physical contact. But I don't know..... Maybe Political Correctness has revolutionized the battlefield and more points will be awarded for inclusiveness and gender parity.
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:21 AM   #18
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Re: US Marines tested all-male squads against mixed-gender ones, and results were ble

None of that seems appealing! But you can't just use percentiles from a standardized test to determine if a person is capable - especially one where the subjects being compared have varying levels of experience. I'm not trying to make any point other than this article sucks at science and should be considered an opinion piece rather than a study.


Perhaps we agree on this - If there is a surplus of recruits, and there is a method of determining what is required for a specific role, and said requirement is met, then gender is irrelevant.

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Old 09-17-2015, 10:58 AM   #19
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Re: US Marines tested all-male squads against mixed-gender ones, and results were ble

[QUOTE=ApneaAndrew;2070308]None of that seems appealing! But you can't just use percentiles from a standardized test to determine if a person is capable - especially one where the subjects being compared have varying levels of experience. I'm not trying to make any point other than this article sucks at science and should be considered an opinion piece rather than a study.

Every Member of a Marine rifle company has varying levels of experience. That little snippet was thrown in as a mitigating factor but holds no water. The article does suck though.

[I]Perhaps we agree on this - If there is a surplus of recruits, and there is a method of determining what is required for a specific role, and said requirement is met, than gender is irrelevant.[/quote][/i]

The Marine Corps definitely have a method and are well aware that gender does matter. In case it slipped by you their business is not a game.
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Old 09-17-2015, 11:01 AM   #20
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Re: US Marines tested all-male squads against mixed-gender ones, and results were ble

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None of that seems appealing! But you can't just use percentiles from a standardized test to determine if a person is capable - especially one where the subjects being compared have varying levels of experience. I'm not trying to make any point other than this article sucks at science and should be considered an opinion piece rather than a study.


Perhaps we agree on this - If there is a surplus of recruits, and there is a method of determining what is required for a specific role, and said requirement is met, than gender is irrelevant.
The article is definitely not a science piece. It does contain simplifications and opinion.

But I honestly don't agree with you that gender is irrelevant, even within performance to a specific standard for a number of reasons;

#1 Gender is an objective standard in itself. Men and women are not interchangeable. No doubt some women are stronger than some men. No doubt some men have a stronger instinct for nurture than some women. None of that changes the fact that men and women have specific, biologically defined roles. There is some overlap in some areas. While you or I can't nurse babies, we can provide nurture. While any woman can be trained to defend or attack with physical force, the top 90% of women would be scarcely able to overcome the bottom 10% of men in physical combat. This difference is, if anything, magnified at elite levels of fitness.

#2 Even among women who are able and willing to perform at elite physical levels alongside male warriors and athletes, injury will be much more prevalent. Testosterone is not unimportant. Neither is body structure.

#3 Pregnancy matters. Ask anyone in a military branch with significant percentage of enlisted women if pregnancy is affecting combat readiness.

#4 Men don't perform in the same ways when women are present. At least a quarter of the men will be thinking of chasing tail when a woman is present in a small cadre. The fact that this perhaps ought not to be does not change what it is.

The present fascination with asserting the equivalence of men and women is a silly fad. It's not objectively true in any measurable way. Everyone understands this at some level, despite whole generations of PC brainwashing in schools, guvermunt, and popular culture.

Nobody gets to have it all. Angelina Jolie certainly looks marvelous in skin-tight clothes while she womps butt on bad guys. But the objective fact is that Lara Croft would be broken like a pretty teacup in any contest with even a moderately trained male adversary.

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Old 09-17-2015, 12:08 PM   #21
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Re: US Marines tested all-male squads against mixed-gender ones, and results were ble

The tests arent the same.Fire dept and Sherrifs dept have different physical requirements.Equal rights should be with equal abilities when it comes to war fighters,LEOs and Fire fighters.Actually should be for anything but the PC crowd screwed everything up.
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Old 09-18-2015, 08:05 AM   #22
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Re: US Marines tested all-male squads against mixed-gender ones, and results were ble

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ap-...FbU?li=AAa0dzB


"Risking the lives of a military unit in combat to provide career opportunities or accommodate the personal desires or interests of an individual, or group of individuals, is more than bad military judgment. It is morally wrong."
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Old 09-18-2015, 11:49 AM   #23
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Re: US Marines tested all-male squads against mixed-gender ones, and results were ble

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Originally Posted by mepps1 View Post
The article is definitely not a science piece. It does contain simplifications and opinion.

But I honestly don't agree with you that gender is irrelevant, even within performance to a specific standard for a number of reasons;

#1 Gender is an objective standard in itself. Men and women are not interchangeable. No doubt some women are stronger than some men. No doubt some men have a stronger instinct for nurture than some women. None of that changes the fact that men and women have specific, biologically defined roles. There is some overlap in some areas. While you or I can't nurse babies, we can provide nurture. While any woman can be trained to defend or attack with physical force, the top 90% of women would be scarcely able to overcome the bottom 10% of men in physical combat. This difference is, if anything, magnified at elite levels of fitness.

#2 Even among women who are able and willing to perform at elite physical levels alongside male warriors and athletes, injury will be much more prevalent. Testosterone is not unimportant. Neither is body structure.

#3 Pregnancy matters. Ask anyone in a military branch with significant percentage of enlisted women if pregnancy is affecting combat readiness.

#4 Men don't perform in the same ways when women are present. At least a quarter of the men will be thinking of chasing tail when a woman is present in a small cadre. The fact that this perhaps ought not to be does not change what it is.

The present fascination with asserting the equivalence of men and women is a silly fad. It's not objectively true in any measurable way. Everyone understands this at some level, despite whole generations of PC brainwashing in schools, guvermunt, and popular culture.

Nobody gets to have it all. Angelina Jolie certainly looks marvelous in skin-tight clothes while she womps butt on bad guys. But the objective fact is that Lara Croft would be broken like a pretty teacup in any contest with even a moderately trained male adversary.

Absolutely love your writing style. Pretty teacup... priceless....
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Old 09-22-2015, 09:55 AM   #24
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Re: US Marines tested all-male squads against mixed-gender ones, and results were ble

I would seriously consider having Ronda Rousey on my team.......but there are not too many of those out there.
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Old 09-22-2015, 11:04 AM   #25
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Re: US Marines tested all-male squads against mixed-gender ones, and results were ble

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I would seriously consider having Ronda Rousey on my team.......but there are not too many of those out there.
She may have the heart/mentality for it but at 125lbs, not enough ass.
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Old 09-22-2015, 11:41 AM   #26
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Re: US Marines tested all-male squads against mixed-gender ones, and results were ble

Perhaps with more females involved over time, the goals of the military might change.

Perhaps over the course of several hundred years there might be less wars, or more wars because of the inclusion of women in the military. America might be relatively more secure and American's might have a relatively better standard of living in ways that aren't currently apparent.

It is possible that women in the battlefield might cause the enemy to behave differently. They might be more aggressive, they might try to capture the women. If they try to capture the women it would effect the timing of the fight, which can play a big role in the outcome. Perhaps they would delay and this would provide time for critical reinforcements to arrive to support American operations in some pivotal battle.

If they were aware that females were in opposite entrenchments, maybe the "enemy" would be emboldened and try to run over American troops; maybe this would result in the death of American troops, maybe it would get them all killed.

Some general might decide to walk past a table of ladies in the mess hall to have a look at them instead of heading directly back to his office. Maybe he would miss a phone call that would alter how things turn out. Maybe the person on the other end of the line wanted to talk about drone strikes, but the phone call is missed and their sick kid is diagnosed with cancer and he's out of the office for a week taking care of his family and the drone strikes either don't happen or are delayed.

Those are some things that could happen, and an infinite number of other outcomes are also possible.
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:36 PM   #27
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Re: US Marines tested all-male squads against mixed-gender ones, and results were ble

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I would seriously consider having Ronda Rousey on my team.......but there are not too many of those out there.
Ive never heard someone call it "team"She is cute but she isnt going to carry a 80# pack and weapons over Ranger Mountain and be useful for combat.Useful but not for combat
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:38 PM   #28
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Re: US Marines tested all-male squads against mixed-gender ones, and results were ble

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Perhaps with more females involved over time, the goals of the military might change.

Perhaps over the course of several hundred years there might be less wars, or more wars because of the inclusion of women in the military. America might be relatively more secure and American's might have a relatively better standard of living in ways that aren't currently apparent.

It is possible that women in the battlefield might cause the enemy to behave differently. They might be more aggressive, they might try to capture the women. If they try to capture the women it would effect the timing of the fight, which can play a big role in the outcome. Perhaps they would delay and this would provide time for critical reinforcements to arrive to support American operations in some pivotal battle.

If they were aware that females were in opposite entrenchments, maybe the "enemy" would be emboldened and try to run over American troops; maybe this would result in the death of American troops, maybe it would get them all killed.

Some general might decide to walk past a table of ladies in the mess hall to have a look at them instead of heading directly back to his office. Maybe he would miss a phone call that would alter how things turn out. Maybe the person on the other end of the line wanted to talk about drone strikes, but the phone call is missed and their sick kid is diagnosed with cancer and he's out of the office for a week taking care of his family and the drone strikes either don't happen or are delayed.

Those are some things that could happen, and an infinite number of other outcomes are also possible.
The Pussification of America!
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:51 PM   #29
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Re: US Marines tested all-male squads against mixed-gender ones, and results were ble

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The Pussification of America!
The whitewashing of complex phenomena thru propaganda
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Old 09-22-2015, 01:25 PM   #30
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Re: US Marines tested all-male squads against mixed-gender ones, and results were ble

In case nobody knows who Ronda Rousey is I found a few pics.I think she is cute but the fighting ability makes her HOT!She fights MMA but was a Olympian in Judo.Very pretty smile and a cool War face too.
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