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Old 11-28-2010, 06:03 PM   #1
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Permit/spearing/Weston meeting

Below is a letter I sent out today to all Commissioners on the FWC. Before anyone fires off any nasty PM's to me please read the entire lette, not just the first paragraph, and think about this issue.

I believe there were mistakes made by some--suggesting that the ban on spearing permit in state waters be lifted was a mistake. Often, fisheries decisions are more about conflict resolution and based on politics more than the biology of the fish. Just the thought of a spearfisherman on the flats pursuing a permit set some folks off the deep end.

Considering that, to my knowledge, there has never been a represtative from the spearfishing community on either of the Councils or the FWC, it is not too difficult to see how some of the nonsense rules pertaining to spearfishing came about.

Don






------------------------------------------------------

Mr. Rodney Barreto
Chairman, Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission

November 28, 2010


Mr. Barreto:

The permit issue has drawn a lot of attention from the spearfishing sector. Some are calling for the prohibition on spearing permit in state waters to be lifted--others are asking that spearfishing and hook and line fishing be regulated "equally." Both of these requests are unreasonable.

Although spearing a permit, by a diver, on the shallow back country flats would be difficult due to limited visibility and the permit's skittish nature, gigging, bowfishing and harpooning a permit might not be as difficult. Since these three activities are all lumped in to the definition of spearing, under present rules, I suspect the FWC would have to allow permit to also be taken by these methods. This would be unacceptable for obvious reasons. At some point the commission should consider redefining spearfishing to an activity that more accurately reflects its true nature, and placing gigging, bowfishing and harpooning in a completely separate category. Presently, there are two different definitions for spearing and spearfishing, but the same regulations appear to apply to both.

Spearfishing is much more selective than hook and line fishing and therefore should not be regulated equally. This was the rationale used by the South Atlantic Council and NMFS when both agreed to allow spearfishing, but prohibit all hook and line fishing, in a proposed area closure off North Florida and Georgia (Amendment 17A). There were not any spearfishermen who voiced concern about not being treated equally with hook and line fishermen in this instance. None demanded to be excluded from the closed area, as hook and line fishermen were.

Although spearfishing is more selective than hook and line gear, spearfishing can not, by any stretch of the imagination be considered a catch and release type fishery. There is a difference between being treated equally and fairly. It is unreasonable to treat both gear types equally for reasons stated above. However, it is not unreasonable to treat both fairly. One only has to look at present spearfishing regulations to see that when ever a perceived conflict occurs between spearfishermen, and any other user group, it is the spearfishermen that makes the concession. The permit issue, once again, brings up the need for the FWC to review all spearfishing/spearing rules and regulations. This would best be approached by forming a spearfishing working group to work with staff, as was successfully accomplished with the marine life industry.

The outcome of the permit issue depends on where the Commission wishes to see this fishery in the future. Does the commission wish to see the permit as more of a catch and release type fish, or continue to allow a limited "meat fishery" to occur? If the decision is catch and release, then obviously spearfishing should be excluded as an allowable gear type. However, if the commission decides to allow some retention, then it seems fair and reasonable to allow spearfishing for permit offshore, in Federal waters.

Whatever the Commission decides there should at least be a no retention clause in the rule to protect permit either when they aggregate to spawn or at specific spawning locations. This would be fair and reasonable to all user groups and permit as well.

Sincerely,


Don DeMaria
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Old 11-28-2010, 06:09 PM   #2
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Re: Permit/spearing/Weston meeting



Couldn't have said it better.
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Old 11-28-2010, 09:11 PM   #3
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Re: Permit/spearing/Weston meeting

I like it!!
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:16 PM   #4
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Re: Permit/spearing/Weston meeting

Good letter. I disagree about the spawning season but agree otherwise. Closures when the stock is not overfished, undergoing overfishing, and has a very strict bag limit are not something I support. 1 fish limit yes, closure no. If we start closing things "just in case" everything will be closed in short order.
We often dive obscure wrecks over 80 miles from shore off Boca Grande in the summer and see swarms of permit that rarely encounter humans, let alone permit catchers. There are many, many, many wrecks out there that hold permit in the summer the vast majority of which are never caught or speared. Me taking one isnt hurting anything and I see little difference to the stock if I take the one in April or May.
My opinion
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Old 11-29-2010, 05:47 AM   #5
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Re: Permit/spearing/Weston meeting

Ed:

I strongly believe that fish should be left alone when they spawn, especially if they form large aggregations at known sites. Presently, there are no rules what-so-ever on permit in federal waters. It is open season--year round--no bag limit--no gear restrictions. Permit can be netted by the thousands and it is legal in federal waters. Clearly, that is an unacceptable mistake in the wording of the rule that needs to be changed.

It may be that permit only form these large spawning aggregations in the southern part of their range. If that is the case, then a rule stating no retention below a certain line, say 26 degrees, might be acceptable to the commission.

I agree. there is no reason to impact those that are not part of the problem, like yourself. A reasonable bag or boat limit may work in your area. However, the unlimited harvest, in the southern area, where permit are known to aggregate and spawn, has to be addressed. Leaving them alone by all user groups, or a no retention clause, during those peark spawning months will not bankrupt any of us down here and provide fish for all of us in the future. Don

I am leaving for a 4 day hunting trip in about an hour and will be out of e-mail contact until Thursday afternoon. Hope you all attend the FWC meeting in Weston.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:59 AM   #6
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Re: Permit/spearing/Weston meeting

Its pretty well a done deal that the one fish bag limit is coming to federal waters so that alone will protect the spawning stock. I think everyone one is in support of that and its is certainly needed. Nothing should be left completely unregulated. That will eliminate any large offshore harvest which Ive never honestly heard of anyway. Its illegal to sell the fish over 20 inches with ALL are where on the wrecks I live so the persistent rumors of large scale commercial removals going on out on the wrecks are not true. Either way the one fish bag limit is a huge protection feature and all that is needed IMO.
I am not onboard with closing any healthy stock of fish simply because its a time when they are schooling together.
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:25 PM   #7
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Re: Permit/spearing/Weston meeting

Who is going to the meeting? It looks like the permit/pompano issue won't get going until at least 10:30 am. It could be after lunch, if one of the earlier presentations is lengthy.

I can post up when I think we are an hour and a half out if anyone here would find that helpful.

Last time, they did not start the permit issue until 4 and finished at 5:30
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:17 PM   #8
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Re: Permit/spearing/Weston meeting

Denny thatd be awesome if you could let us know when the permit session will start! I was going to try and head to the meeting but if its all day I cant miss work. But knowing an approximate time to be there will allow me to take a long lunch and make this important meeting. Thanx!!
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Old 11-30-2010, 05:26 PM   #9
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Re: Permit/spearing/Weston meeting

Done deal.

Also, the FWC is broadcasting the meeting on the internet so the FRA does not have to.
I will put the broadcast on an FRA page with links to the referenced documents below the broadcast screen. Link to be posted here,
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Old 11-30-2010, 09:43 PM   #10
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Re: Permit/spearing/Weston meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
Who is going to the meeting? It looks like the permit/pompano issue won't get going until at least 10:30 am. It could be after lunch, if one of the earlier presentations is lengthy.

I can post up when I think we are an hour and a half out if anyone here would find that helpful.

Last time, they did not start the permit issue until 4 and finished at 5:30
I plan on coming with a few people on Thursday. If you could post when we are needed to come, that would be very helpful. I am going to be leaving work for a bit to come to this.
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:02 PM   #11
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Re: Permit/spearing/Weston meeting

Thats great. We'll be glad to see as many of out spearfishing brothers as possible at this one. It really could make a difference this time.
Simply standing up and saying your name, locale, and asking them to remove the proposed rule to ban spearing APs in federal waters would be helpful. You dont need to be JFK in your speaking. A fish in the cooler is a fish in the cooler and theres less discard mortality with hook and line gear.
That rule in particular has no justification whatsoever and was added because "the commission indicated that they did not like spearfishing". That is a direct quote my friends.
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:57 AM   #12
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Re: Permit/spearing/Weston meeting

Watch the meeting live. Go to www.thefra.org/FLpermit.htm
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:14 AM   #13
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Re: Permit/spearing/Weston meeting

I just spoke to Denny. He is driving there now.

I also contacted FWC staff directly and there were some carryover items from yesterday, but staff are not sure when the Permit Pompano agenda item will be discussed this morning.

So here is what I recommend:

If you can get there by say 10:30am, I believe that is the earliest they will get to it.

If you can get there only later, please still come because they easily might not get to it before noon.
I hope for all of our sakes that they do take it up BEFORE lunch break.

Watch the meeting live. Go to www.thefra.org/FLpermit.htm

See you there! Thanks, Tony
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:27 AM   #14
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Re: Permit/spearing/Weston meeting

Permit thing will probably start at 11;15
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Old 12-02-2010, 01:04 PM   #15
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Re: Permit/spearing/Weston meeting

Thanks everyone for showing up and giving your thoughts!!!!!!!!!!!!

It looks like the commission unanimously agreed to move forward with allowing spearfishing in FED waters for AP and Permit.

Last edited by Gamble; 12-02-2010 at 02:52 PM.
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