Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > Spearfishing Gear > All About Guns

All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-01-2019, 01:47 PM   #1
deanmc
FII Professional
 
deanmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Rocky Point, NY
Posts: 315
Fusion Roller Build

Some shots of a build I just did for the guys running the Top Dawg Freshwater Spearfishing Challenge here in the States. Whoever shoots the biggest carp wins the gun! Mahogany stock (finished with Phils Epoxy from Neptonics) a mortised in carbon reinforced handle. Has an Ermes double roller mechanism custom shaft from Addiction and various bits and pieces of hardware from Ermes and me. MVD reel. I have not tested this one out yet but will have some time in couple of weeks.















deanmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2019, 04:17 PM   #2
popgun pete
Registered User
 
popgun pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,266
Re: Fusion Roller Build

Probably able to skewer two Carp at once with that gun! Carp tend to swim in murky water, so he will need a clear spot to blast them when he can line them up. Here Carp swim in complete safety as it is illegal to spear in freshwater, much to our displeasure as they breed unhampered.
popgun pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2019, 07:47 PM   #3
musubi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Big Island
Posts: 93
Re: Fusion Roller Build

That's a beautiful gun you made, and what a prize!

Question, is the top band cored with dyneema or spectra to limit stretching?
Sorry, I'm not too familiar with fusion type guns.
musubi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2019, 01:38 PM   #4
deanmc
FII Professional
 
deanmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Rocky Point, NY
Posts: 315
Re: Fusion Roller Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by musubi View Post
That's a beautiful gun you made, and what a prize!

Question, is the top band cored with dyneema or spectra to limit stretching?
Sorry, I'm not too familiar with fusion type guns.
Thank you. No the top band does not have line running through it. It is connected to the bands on the bottom via the line running over the rollers you see in the images.

This video gives a good explanation of the design and how it works
https://youtu.be/T67CML6qLVo?t=25
deanmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 05:51 AM   #5
Mikel_24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Bilbao (Spain)
Posts: 294
Re: Fusion Roller Build

Holy cow! Beautiful!

Just to critizise it a bit... did you consider mounting a vertical reel on the trigger guard so the band attachment points in the underside can me moved even further back getting even more stretch?

Also, could you please elaborate a bit more about that carbon fiber reinforced handle and the paint job? Did you reinforce, give it a coat of epoxy to even things out, airbruss paint over it and finally coat it again?

I am asking because usually CF reinforcements kind of print through the epoxy unless is veeeeeeeeeery thick... and I don't see any of that in your gun.

Great job as always!

Mikel
Mikel_24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 10:33 AM   #6
deanmc
FII Professional
 
deanmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Rocky Point, NY
Posts: 315
Re: Fusion Roller Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel_24 View Post
Holy cow! Beautiful!

Just to critizise it a bit... did you consider mounting a vertical reel on the trigger guard so the band attachment points in the underside can me moved even further back getting even more stretch?

Also, could you please elaborate a bit more about that carbon fiber reinforced handle and the paint job? Did you reinforce, give it a coat of epoxy to even things out, airbruss paint over it and finally coat it again?

I am asking because usually CF reinforcements kind of print through the epoxy unless is veeeeeeeeeery thick... and I don't see any of that in your gun.

Great job as always!

Mikel
The first thing I noticed after looking at the assembled gun was the wasted real estate that could have been used to get some more band stretch I didn't have any vertical reels on hand when I was building and just grabbed that one because it fit the space nicely. Sometimes during a build I get fixated on one or two details and then space on an important one like that. These are the lessons that you sometimes learn the hard way.

The handle was skinned with carbon fiber. I used pigment rather than paint but it totally covered any evidence of the carbon hiding under it (there is a spot or two on the underside of the trigger guard where you can see some black coming through). As far as thick goes you are right. I probably have ten coats on the gun I usually only do six. I was done at seven but then the organizers of the contest sent a sticker to put on the gun so I had to do another three to cover it up

I actually made a time-lapse of the carbon work on this build
https://www.instagram.com/p/B1_RRkDjr-I/

The pigments I use are from Black Diamond https://www.blackdiamondpigments.com
So far I've only tried them on mahogany but they create a really cool finish with flecks of sparkle you don't see in the photos. In sunlight these finishes look like something you would see on a vintage muscle car.
deanmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 11:18 AM   #7
Mikel_24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Bilbao (Spain)
Posts: 294
Re: Fusion Roller Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanmc View Post
The first thing I noticed after looking at the assembled gun was the wasted real estate that could have been used to get some more band stretch I didn't have any vertical reels on hand when I was building and just grabbed that one because it fit the space nicely. Sometimes during a build I get fixated on one or two details and then space on an important one like that. These are the lessons that you sometimes learn the hard way./[/url]
I am pretty sure that with such a band battery there it won't lack power, next one will come out even better!

BTW I know you have been using MVD vertical reels in the past (Soft Touch model I recall). Some spearos complain about the freespool feature leading to tangles... and preffer reels with a permanent (adjustable) drag. Well, MVD has just released a new model with this particular feature. I though it was worth mentioning just in case you need to buy new ones!


Quote:
Originally Posted by deanmc View Post
The handle was skinned with carbon fiber.

[.......]

I actually made a time-lapse of the carbon work on this build
https://www.instagram.com/p/B1_RRkDjr-I/
Time lapse is awesome. I see that the during the initial layout the cloth seems to stick fairly well to the stock. Did you just put some epoxy on the wood and waited for it to gel a little for the cloth to stick? Or do you have a different trick you could share with us?

I am in the process of building another gun with one of my own own cast PU resin handles. I first molded/carved one in clay, then clear coated and used it to make a mold with special silicone. I was worried about the gun being too heavy for the intended shaft (it happened to me before) so I used Smooth On Featherlite PU resin. It floats in the water... at the expense of not being so tough. The least thing I want is finishing the gun, bumping the handle and breaking it. It is already attached to the wood stock (epoxy + 2 long stainless screws)

Soooo... I will be reinforcing it with carbon fiber, even if it means loosing some details in the molding of the handle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deanmc View Post
I used pigment rather than paint but it totally covered any evidence of the carbon hiding under it (there is a spot or two on the underside of the trigger guard where you can see some black coming through). As far as thick goes you are right. I probably have ten coats on the gun I usually only do six. I was done at seven but then the organizers of the contest sent a sticker to put on the gun so I had to do another three to cover it up

I actually made a time-lapse of the carbon work on this build
https://www.instagram.com/p/B1_RRkDjr-I/

The pigments I use are from Black Diamond https://www.blackdiamondpigments.com
So far I've only tried them on mahogany but they create a really cool finish with flecks of sparkle you don't see in the photos. In sunlight these finishes look like something you would see on a vintage muscle car.
I know that arround here everyone who builds guns and their mothers use Phil's epoxy. I am 100% sure it is a great product but there are products out there with specific formulations that might work better.

For instance, during my first build I used the same resin to laminate the wood and to clear coat it. The problem I faced (even though I used a rottisiere system) is that this particular epoxy had a too long time to gel/set. And during this long time, it had time to run away from the vinils (surface tension bla bla bla). It took me several coats to get the finish I wanted.

I used all the remaining reesing to glue together some more blanks and bought new products for the next gun. But this time I bought one product to laminate (haven't used it yet) and a different one for the clear coat. This second product was specially formulated as a top coat. It goes on thick, doesn't run away as easy, gels faster and only requires one coat (or two at most).

It also takes the pigments well (used to give a solid orange color to the handle).

https://www.castrocompositesshop.com...peso-1_0_38_kg

You can browse through it with Google Translator if needed. You can also download the datasheets.

Maybe even Phil could provide you with a similar product.

But again, the gun is absolutely stunning! Not critizicing!

Mikel
Mikel_24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 12:46 PM   #8
deanmc
FII Professional
 
deanmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Rocky Point, NY
Posts: 315
Re: Fusion Roller Build

Quote:
BTW I know you have been using MVD vertical reels in the past (Soft Touch model I recall). Some spearos complain about the freespool feature leading to tangles... and preffer reels with a permanent (adjustable) drag. Well, MVD has just released a new model with this particular feature. I though it was worth mentioning just in case you need to buy new ones!
Good to know. Put me on the list of those not crazy about how the drag works on this version of the MVD reel. I'll have to check out the newer version.

Quote:
I see that the during the initial layout the cloth seems to stick fairly well to the stock. Did you just put some epoxy on the wood and waited for it to gel a little for the cloth to stick? Or do you have a different trick you could share with us?
I use spray adhesive on the part and on the cloth to tack it in place before saturating with a good coat of epoxy.

Quote:
I know that arround here everyone who builds guns and their mothers use Phil's epoxy. I am 100% sure it is a great product but there are products out there with specific formulations that might work better.

For instance, during my first build I used the same resin to laminate the wood and to clear coat it. The problem I faced (even though I used a rottisiere system) is that this particular epoxy had a too long time to gel/set. And during this long time, it had time to run away from the vinils (surface tension bla bla bla). It took me several coats to get the finish I wanted.

I used all the remaining reesing to glue together some more blanks and bought new products for the next gun. But this time I bought one product to laminate (haven't used it yet) and a different one for the clear coat. This second product was specially formulated as a top coat. It goes on thick, doesn't run away as easy, gels faster and only requires one coat (or two at most).

It also takes the pigments well (used to give a solid orange color to the handle).

https://www.castrocompositesshop.com...peso-1_0_38_kg

You can browse through it with Google Translator if needed. You can also download the datasheets.

Maybe even Phil could provide you with a similar product.

But again, the gun is absolutely stunning! Not critizicing!

Mikel
Phil's stuff is great, it took me a few builds but now I'm comfortable working with it and get consistent results. I don't have a rotisserie setup, I hang my guns vertically so multiple thin coats is what I do when building up a thick shell like on this gun.
deanmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 02:51 PM   #9
popgun pete
Registered User
 
popgun pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,266
Re: Fusion Roller Build

Plenty of bulk to float in freshwater after the shot which is less dense than saltwater.
popgun pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2019, 02:21 AM   #10
Mikel_24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Bilbao (Spain)
Posts: 294
Re: Fusion Roller Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanmc View Post
Good to know. Put me on the list of those not crazy about how the drag works on this version of the MVD reel. I'll have to check out the newer version.
There was a container that seemed to be a spray can of some sort on the table during the first stage of the video but I somehow thought that using a different adhesive in the begining might affect the way the epoxy behaves (not adhering properly to the wood, or not wetting the cloth well. Chemistry is tricky sometimes. That's why I didn't give it a second thought.

I will get a can of spray contact glue and try it out in another area (belly of the stock) where its only purpose will be for looks (strip of kevlar/carbon cloth).

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanmc View Post
Phil's stuff is great, it took me a few builds but now I'm comfortable working with it and get consistent results. I don't have a rotisserie setup, I hang my guns vertically so multiple thin coats is what I do when building up a thick shell like on this gun.
I built my first one using a battery powered BBQ thingy I found in a craiglist-like site here in Spain. I recently sold it to a friend of mine and purchased this 220v version instead (they also have it in 110v). Much more robust, full metal and I don't have to worry about running out of battery when I leave it on at night.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32828...274263c0wv9HUc

Maybe your local HW stores carry something similar, but mine doesn't so I had to buy it from China. Just in case!!!

Mikel
Mikel_24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2019, 03:14 AM   #11
Diving Gecko
Shooter & Shooter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 833
Re: Fusion Roller Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel_24 View Post
There was a container that seemed to be a spray can of some sort on the table during the first stage of the video but I somehow thought that using a different adhesive in the begining might affect the way the epoxy behaves (not adhering properly to the wood, or not wetting the cloth well. Chemistry is tricky sometimes. That's why I didn't give it a second thought.

I will get a can of spray contact glue and try it out in another area (belly of the stock) where its only purpose will be for looks (strip of kevlar/carbon cloth).



I built my first one using a battery powered BBQ thingy I found in a craiglist-like site here in Spain. I recently sold it to a friend of mine and purchased this 220v version instead (they also have it in 110v). Much more robust, full metal and I don't have to worry about running out of battery when I leave it on at night.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32828...274263c0wv9HUc

Maybe your local HW stores carry something similar, but mine doesn't so I had to buy it from China. Just in case!!!

Mikel
Using spray glue to tack down the fiber is a well-used trick in the composites industry and for years, I have seen it debated on forums whether it has any adverse effects - seems for normal use, there isn't as long as you only do a thin mist coat. There's one brand which say their glue is epoxy proof (maybe the opposite, maybe it gets dissolved by the epoxy with no ill effects?) and that's Airtac 2. It's not cheap but some composites techs use that. But I think the vast majority uses 3M77 though and I would speculate that if it gave any easily measurable defects, it wouldn't be so popular.

Gotcha on the China parts. It's pretty much what I like the most about actually living there: Have a nerdy idea? Need a funky, cheap, sometimes hard to get part (in the West)? No problem, delivered to your door in two, max three days for cheaper than it is on aliexpress (which is already dirt cheap).

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 10-04-2019 at 03:57 AM.
Diving Gecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2019, 03:30 AM   #12
Mikel_24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Bilbao (Spain)
Posts: 294
Re: Fusion Roller Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
...the vast majority uses 3M77 ...
I just did some search and seems like this adhesive is quite different of the contact adhesives I was thinking about (spray/apply to both parts, wait untill it is not sticky to fingers, press together, bla bla bla). This is an instant adhesive that allows you to move the material arround to some extent.

Thanks for the pointing it out! Off I go to find the best online price....

QUICK UPDATE: There is a special adhesive from 3M for tacking composite materials for resin infusion processes and not interfere with the curing, preventing delamination. It is the S71. Specially formulated according to 3M. If someone needs to buy spray adhesive for this, it might be worth it. Roughly twice as expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
Gotcha on the China parts. It's pretty much what I like the most about actually living there: Have a nerdy idea? Need a funky, cheap, sometimes hard to get part (in the West)? No problem, delivered to your door in two, max three days for cheaper than it is on aliexpress (which is already dirt cheap).
Don't rub it so much... we all know that you can easily get those cuttlefish shaped carbon tubes for soooo cheap while we have to end up paying twice as much for the shipping...

There seem to be other sources aside from Aliexpress that are even cheaper, but they require you to know the language... or so I heard.

Mikel

Last edited by Mikel_24; 10-04-2019 at 04:10 AM.
Mikel_24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2019, 04:15 AM   #13
Diving Gecko
Shooter & Shooter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 833
Re: Fusion Roller Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel_24 View Post
I just did some search and seems like this adhesive is quite different of the contact adhesives I was thinking about (spray/apply to both parts, wait untill it is not sticky to fingers, press together, bla bla bla). This is an instant adhesive that allows you to move the material arround to some extent.

Thanks for the pointing it out! Off I go to find the best online price....


Don't rub it so much... we all know that you can easily get those cuttlefish shaped carbon tubes for soooo cheap while we have to end up paying twice as much for the shipping...

There seem to be other sources aside from Aliexpress that are even cheaper, but they require you to know the language... or so I heard.

Mikel
As for the cuttleshaped barrels, not really, not so. I think the dudes who for years have been trying to get samples or just pay sample price for 1-2 barrels with the promise of ordering a bunch later on has opened the manufacturer's eyes to the real market value of these barrels, haha. I actually tried to go through a Chinese friend of mine who runs the biggest local shop plus a spearo club and we weren't offered any special kinda deal. When I saw Makoa's recent bulk deal, I actually felt he must have done good on the pricing and/or really not made much on any barres he sold. Maybe just enough to cover the hassle and a nice burger meal

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 10-04-2019 at 04:29 AM.
Diving Gecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2019, 01:02 PM   #14
deanmc
FII Professional
 
deanmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Rocky Point, NY
Posts: 315
Re: Fusion Roller Build

Quote:
QUICK UPDATE: There is a special adhesive from 3M for tacking composite materials for resin infusion processes and not interfere with the curing, preventing delamination. It is the S71. Specially formulated according to 3M. If someone needs to buy spray adhesive for this, it might be worth it. Roughly twice as expensive
Nice, I'll be getting some of this. I've previously used the 3M77
deanmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 07:04 AM   #15
doyenofcastle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 392
Re: Fusion Roller Build

there is no question about the gun finishing and design with that small roller head ,just had one comments ,when the rope reach to the end (before the roller wheel )it is under pretension ,it will knock the gun tip down ,does the gun flip up after and hit spear tail ?

How you find the EVO back ??
doyenofcastle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:59 PM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com