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Old 03-03-2015, 07:50 PM   #1
Seeco
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Exclamation My Friend's Responses to the Abalone Survey

Thought this was an interesting take:
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Old 03-03-2015, 10:30 PM   #2
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Re: My Friend's Responses to the Abalone Survey

+1. good work.
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Old 03-04-2015, 02:33 AM   #3
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Re: My Friend's Responses to the Abalone Survey

Thanks, not as good as your avatar picture.
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Old 03-04-2015, 11:59 AM   #4
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Re: My Friend's Responses to the Abalone Survey

Classic.
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Old 03-04-2015, 12:17 PM   #5
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Re: My Friend's Responses to the Abalone Survey

Yeah pretty cut and dry. You could see him get madder as it went on.
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Old 03-04-2015, 01:28 PM   #6
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Re: My Friend's Responses to the Abalone Survey

I have a friend in this field and I know some of her friends. Mostly all their mindsets are backwards, there is always some bogus study to support or some ridiculous story they heard through the grapevine about one time this or one time that.

I think it's mostly all from their teachers. Basically like studying women's studies at Berkeley, you all start beating the same drum, or drop/flunk out.
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Old 03-04-2015, 02:04 PM   #7
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Re: My Friend's Responses to the Abalone Survey

Most of his choices were conflicting with themselves , he wants it both ways . For example he wants a limit every time but he also wants higher limits and everywhere open . Abs are the only fishery I know of where you can get a limit no mater what . If you can dive to 10' and hold your breath for 20 sec you can get a limit .

You ether get higher limits and they get fished out and it gets harder like hunting bugs , or lower limits and it's ez to get a limit every time ( like it is now)
You don't get both
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Old 03-04-2015, 02:47 PM   #8
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Re: My Friend's Responses to the Abalone Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by phil herranen View Post
Most of his choices were conflicting with themselves , he wants it both ways . For example he wants a limit every time but he also wants higher limits and everywhere open . Abs are the only fishery I know of where you can get a limit no mater what . If you can dive to 10' and hold your breath for 20 sec you can get a limit .

You ether get higher limits and they get fished out and it gets harder like hunting bugs , or lower limits and it's ez to get a limit every time ( like it is now)
You don't get both
Phil, I think his point of answering questions like that was looking ahead to how the data gathered from a Likert Scale would potentially [read: most likely] be used to further bolster a position of increasing restrictions and regulations to limit all take (rec. & comm.). It appeared to me as though every potential 'scaler' on the surveys rating scale that could be fashioned to answer a research question like "How many participants stated that they'd be open to tighter restrictions?" was purposely thwarted to give the overall weighting of his survey (as a whole) toward "Less Restriction". It seems like an interesting attempt from an individual who hopes to skew the data towards a finding pointing toward lesser regulation and no tolerance for increased restrictions. Knowing the way these surveys work... one can fully understand why his answers are not internally consistent with each other.
My $0.02
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Old 03-04-2015, 03:08 PM   #9
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Re: My Friend's Responses to the Abalone Survey

Up everything,

Up the day take (to 4 or 5), the annual take (back to 24) and the minimum size (to something like 8').

Then limiting for lots of divers will be more difficult and respected.
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Old 03-04-2015, 06:52 PM   #10
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Re: My Friend's Responses to the Abalone Survey

How do they collect data on the abalone fishery? Is it only by interviewing divers/pickers after they come in after their session? I've seen them out at Van Damme conducting their surveys. Seems biased to only assess data compiled at the most popular locations.

I usually dive the Sonoma coast, but the last dive I did was in Bragg at a VERY popular spot. I didn't even venture out of the cove due to swell and I was absolutely floored by how many abalone I saw in 15-20'.
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Old 03-05-2015, 11:13 PM   #11
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Re: My Friend's Responses to the Abalone Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by J(dot) View Post
Phil, I think his point of answering questions like that was looking ahead to how the data gathered from a Likert Scale would potentially [read: most likely] be used to further bolster a position of increasing restrictions and regulations to limit all take (rec. & comm.). It appeared to me as though every potential 'scaler' on the surveys rating scale that could be fashioned to answer a research question like "How many participants stated that they'd be open to tighter restrictions?" was purposely thwarted to give the overall weighting of his survey (as a whole) toward "Less Restriction". It seems like an interesting attempt from an individual who hopes to skew the data towards a finding pointing toward lesser regulation and no tolerance for increased restrictions. Knowing the way these surveys work... one can fully understand why his answers are not internally consistent with each other.
My $0.02
Exactly. He took some survey design course in grad school. The idea was to avoid any and all changes in abalone regs. I personally agree that there's plenty of abs and the rules are fine and we just need more wardens. I we posted this hoping others would copy it but I really don't know anything about ab populations now. I haven't lived up there for about 6 years so...
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Old 03-06-2015, 10:12 AM   #12
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Re: My Friend's Responses to the Abalone Survey

The abalone are everywhere. Some areas are stacked 3 deep. The FMP process we're in is not so much about changing the regulations as it is changing the way the fishery managed. If we leave it up to the current management plan, the ARMP, abalone will be closed completely within a few years because it is an over precautionary protection plan put in place when there wasn't a whole lot of science to determine the best way to manage the species. I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying about the futility of government surveys but I sat on a conference call with the biologists and other NGO's for two hours discussing how to make this survey matter. Some of the suggestions they took, some they didn't. After the two hour phone conference there was a month of daily e-mails to argue over the wording of the first question in section 3. The only question that matters right now really, do divers want more opportunity or more restrictions from the next management plan.

I know it's disheartening and these surveys seem stupid but this is what they're going to use to determine what the public wants from the new FMP.
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Old 03-06-2015, 10:35 AM   #13
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Re: My Friend's Responses to the Abalone Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeco View Post
Exactly. He took some survey design course in grad school. The idea was to avoid any and all changes in abalone regs. I personally agree that there's plenty of abs and the rules are fine and we just need more wardens. I we posted this hoping others would copy it but I really don't know anything about ab populations now. I haven't lived up there for about 6 years so...
So he basically gave a bunch of bs answers that will get tossed out , he isn't as smart as he thinks is , and really didn't understand most of the questions . If the rules stay the way they are none of the present closed spots will ever get to a number where they can reopen and one by one other spots will reach the shut down trigger . The trigger number needs to be lower , and there needs to be aria sub limits if we ever get the islands/ SoCal reopened
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Old 03-06-2015, 01:31 PM   #14
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Re: My Friend's Responses to the Abalone Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by phil herranen View Post
Most of his choices were conflicting with themselves , he wants it both ways . For example he wants a limit every time but he also wants higher limits and everywhere open . Abs are the only fishery I know of where you can get a limit no mater what . If you can dive to 10' and hold your breath for 20 sec you can get a limit .

You ether get higher limits and they get fished out and it gets harder like hunting bugs , or lower limits and it's ez to get a limit every time ( like it is now)
You don't get both
I have only ab dove a few times and 90% at very popular noob places but limits weren't the rule for the "average diver" i spoke to. I never not limited when I try and consider myself average among real divers but a large segment of the hunters out there do have a decent challenge to get at em.
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Old 03-06-2015, 03:09 PM   #15
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Re: My Friend's Responses to the Abalone Survey

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I have only ab dove a few times and 90% at very popular noob places but limits weren't the rule for the "average diver" i spoke to. I never not limited when I try and consider myself average among real divers but a large segment of the hunters out there do have a decent challenge to get at em.
You are absolutely correct. A diver with any skill at all can easily pick a limit at the heaviest dove sites with very little effort. You are also correct that there are a large number of people that try to get in the ocean with no experience and no guidance at all and they are the ones that have a hard time getting a limit. It seems silly but as a licensed guide and someone that takes out countless newbies every year, there are guys that don't know how to use a pry bar. Most new divers get to ten feet and panic from the sensory overload and have zero bottom time. I took a guy out last year and on the way to the water he tells me he can't swim, he had a near drowning experience and he's deathly afraid of the water then ask if that's a problem. This was his way to conquer his fear. I got him in the water and spent an hour just showing him how to leave the surface. It took a few more hours but he got his limit and that was at one of the heaviest dove index sites.

Another challenge is that a lot of new divers up here are wearing rental gear or gear they got at a garage sale so they get cold almost instantly and most spend less than an hour in the water.

It's a different class of divers up here and it's a different environment but that doesn't mean there aren't enough abalone.
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