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Old 09-24-2008, 07:42 AM   #1
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Unhappy SAFMC Approves 4-month spawning season closure for grouper + more restrictions!

Council Approves Amendment 16 to End Overfishing

Interim rule will implement measures for gag, black grouper, and red grouper by early 2009

The South Atlantic Fishery Management Council gave final approval to Amendment 16 to the Snapper Grouper Fishery Management Plan during its meeting in Charleston, South Carolina this past week. The amendment includes measures to end overfishing of gag grouper and vermilion snapper, including a 4-month spawning season closure for gag and shallow water grouper, reductions in bag limits, commercial quotas, and other measures. Approval of the amendment was delayed during the Council’s June meeting when the Council agreed to consider additional management measures for analysis in the amendment. However, after considering the analysis of the additional options and receiving public comment as part of the week-long meeting, the Council moved forward to approve their original preferred management measures in Amendment 16. The amendment will go through review by the National Marine Fisheries Service and receive approval by the Secretary of Commerce before management measures are implemented. It is estimated the review process will take several months.

The Council’s actions are driven by mandates from the Magnuson-Stevens Reauthorization Act that require fisheries managers to implement measures to end overfishing within a one-year period after overfishing has been identified. Both gag grouper and vermilion snapper stocks were identified as undergoing overfishing through the Southeast Data, Assessment, and Review (SEDAR) stock assessment process in June 2007. An age-based SEDAR stock assessment for vermilion snapper is currently underway and the results of the recent Assessment Workshop, part of the three-step stock assessment process, is indicating the stock status might be better than originally reported. The Review Workshop is scheduled for October 20-24, 2008 in Savannah, Georgia and is open to the public. Amendment 16 contains a provision that would allow adjustments to the reduction of vermilion snapper if necessary, based on the updated assessment. The final stock assessment results will be reviewed by the Scientific and Statistical Committee and the Council during the November 30 – December 5, 2008 meeting in Wilmington, North Carolina.

Measures in Amendment 16 to end overfishing for gag include: a spawning season closure January through April for both commercial and recreational fishermen for gag and other shallow water groupers including black grouper, red grouper scamp, red hind rock hind, yellowmouth grouper, tiger grouper, yellowfin grouper, graysby, and coney; a commercial quota for gag of 352,940 pounds gutted weight. After the quota is met, all purchase and sale of shallow water grouper would also be prohibited; reducing the 5-grouper aggregate bag limit to a 3-grouper aggregate bag limit and the existing bag limit from 2 gag or black grouper to 1 gag or black grouper; and excluding the captain and crew on for-hire vessels from possessing a bag limit for groupers. Additional measures for vermilion snapper, including commercial quotas, bag limits and a recreational closed season are likely to be modified following the stock assessment. The amendment also establishes interim allocations for both gag and vermilion snapper.

“These measures should end overfishing for gag and vermilion snapper,” said Council member Mac Currin, Chairman of the Snapper Grouper Committee. “Everyone is hopeful that the ongoing age-based assessment of vermilion snapper will allow the Council to reduce the measures impacting fishermen.”


Interim Rule

In order to end overfishing for gag grouper, black grouper, and red grouper as required by the Magnuson Act, the Council approved an interim rule to implement reductions in fishing mortality as specified in Amendment 16. This includes the 4-month spawning season closure for gag, black grouper, and red grouper; the commercial quota for gag, with the harvest of black grouper and red grouper prohibited once the quota is met; and reductions in the recreational bag limit. Black grouper and red grouper are included in the interim rule because they are also experiencing overfishing and there is a bycatch of gag when black and red grouper are targeted. Earlier provisions to address overfishing for vermilion snapper and red snapper through the interim rule were removed and red snapper will be addressed by the Council during its November 30-December 5 meeting. An interim rule can only be used to address species undergoing overfishing and would be in effect for 180 days. The rule can be extended for an additional 186 days if necessary. Provisions of the interim rule with respect to federally permitted vessels for South Atlantic snapper grouper would apply regardless of where the fish are harvested (i.e., in state or federal waters). The Council’s intent is to have the interim rule effective by January 1, 2009.

Elections

During its meeting, the Council elected Council member Duane Harris as its new chairman and David Cupka to serve as vice-chair. Mr. Harris, an obligatory member of the Council from St. Simons Island, Georgia, replaces George Geiger of Sebastian, Florida as Council Chair. Formally serving as vice-chair, Chairman Harris has a long history of service to the Council, initially serving as a representative of the Georgia Department of Natural Resources’ Coastal Resources Division and continuing his service after retiring as director of the division in 2003. Vice-Chairman Cupka also has a long history with the Council, serving as the South Carolina representative for the Department of Natural Resources’ Marine Resources Division before his retirement and currently serving in an at-large position.

The next meeting of the Council is scheduled for November 30-December 5, 2008 in Wilmington, North Carolina. For additional information regarding Council meetings, including briefing book materials, committee reports, and summary motions from the September 2008 meeting, visit www.safmc.net or contact the Council office.

The South Atlantic Fishery Management Council, one of eight regional councils, conserves and manages fish stocks from three to 200 miles offshore of North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and east Florida.
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Old 09-24-2008, 09:28 AM   #2
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Re: SAFMC Approves 4-month spawning season closure for grouper + more restrictions!

Tony,
I have a question that you or hopefully somebody can answer.
"The South Atlantic Fishery Management Council, one of eight regional councils, conserves and manages fish stocks from three to 200 miles offshore of North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and east Florida."
How do these rules apply inside of 3 miles? Does the state typically inherit these rules? If the state waters are unchanged I would imagine Palm Beach County reefs will get hammered by people who want to hunt for closed season grouper inside 3 miles.
As much as I like to hunt grouper I definitely don't want to see additional pressure in an already stressed area. (in my opinion)
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Old 09-24-2008, 09:36 AM   #3
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Re: SAFMC Approves 4-month spawning season closure for grouper + more restrictions!

Jeff, I was wondering the same thing. In the article KeysKiller posted in the Keys section it says:

Quote:
The council wants Florida, South Carolina, Georgia and North Carolina make the same grouper closure apply within state waters.

But Florida, for one, has opposed the four-month closure in the Atlantic.

“We just feel like in this economy and with the information we have, that’s just too onerous on Florida fishermen at this time,” said Lee Schlesinger, spokesman for Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.

State waters in Florida extend three nautical miles out (about 3 1/2 statute miles) in the Atlantic and nine nautical miles (10.4 statute miles) in the Gulf of Mexico. Federal waters stretch from those borders out to 200 nautical miles (about 230 statute miles).
So if the state doesn't adopt those plans, that would put make PB one of the only places in the state where we have a realistic shot of shooting a grouper in those months. Nice for us, but I agree we would see a ridiculous amount of fishing and diving pressure here.
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Old 09-24-2008, 09:42 AM   #4
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Lightbulb Re: SAFMC Approves 4-month spawning season closure for grouper + more restrictions!

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Originally Posted by Twin-or-Lose View Post
Tony,
I have a question that you or hopefully somebody can answer.
"The South Atlantic Fishery Management Council, one of eight regional councils, conserves and manages fish stocks from three to 200 miles offshore of North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and east Florida."
How do these rules apply inside of 3 miles? Does the state typically inherit these rules? If the state waters are unchanged I would imagine Palm Beach County reefs will get hammered by people who want to hunt for closed season grouper inside 3 miles.
As much as I like to hunt grouper I definitely don't want to see additional pressure in an already stressed area. (in my opinion)
Typically, the state(s) will follow the Feds on this sort of regulation and if they don't I believe the Feds will clamp down even more in Federal waters. We will have to see how this plays out. Standing by, Tony
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Old 09-24-2008, 10:24 AM   #5
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Re: SAFMC Approves 4-month spawning season closure for grouper + more restrictions!

Quote:
The council wants Florida, South Carolina, Georgia and North Carolina make the same grouper closure apply within state waters.

But Florida, for one, has opposed the four-month closure in the Atlantic.

“We just feel like in this economy and with the information we have, that’s just too onerous on Florida fishermen at this time,” said Lee Schlesinger, spokesman for Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.

State waters in Florida extend three nautical miles out (about 3 1/2 statute miles) in the Atlantic and nine nautical miles (10.4 statute miles) in the Gulf of Mexico. Federal waters stretch from those borders out to 200 nautical miles (about 230 statute miles).
I just had a long phone call with Lee Schlesinger, spokesman for Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. Lee has been a fount of information in the past and explained it well today. I also called Greg Waugh at the SAFMC and ran this by him too. Here is my understanding of the situation:

1.) South Atlantic Fisheries Management Council (SAFMC) had to adopt this "interim rule" in order to comply with the Federal law under the Magnuson-Stevens Reauthorization Act (MSRA). Otherwise, the Secretary of Commerce could step in and take over in essence.

2.) The FWC has gone on record as being OPPOSED to the 4 month closure in the Atlantic Ocean.

3.) The interim rule is effective for this coming January-April 2009 period and effectively stops the grouper fishing in Federal waters beyond three miles off shore. It also stops commercial guys holding federal grouper permits from shifting their fishing effort into state waters because there is a rule already in place for them that if Federal rules are more restrictive than state rules, they MUST apply Fereral rules in state waters. This commercial operator restriction applies to anyone with any Federal permit such as "for hire" vessels like dive charter boats, head boats, or commercial boats.

4.) Therefore, the only people who can fish for grouper in state Atlantic waters between January and April of 2009 are RECREATIONAL fisher men and women.

5.) Commercial fishermen who do NOT have any Federal permits may also be allowed to take grouper (up to recreational limits only and NOT for sale), but they need to check that out further. Here is the link to their specific rules: https://www.flrules.org/Gateway/View...asp?id=5358103

6.) The FWC will likely consider whether to implement consistent state waters regulations once the federal grouper regs are in place next year.

7.) Whether this does cause more "fishing pressure" on the various state waters along the Atlantic coast remains to be seen. It may not do so as some may think. I am working on developing a private sector recreational fishing reporting system for this coming January-April season so we can present intelligent and reliable data to FWC for their upcoming deliberations about grouper regulations next year after April 2009.

8.) Spearboard.com, FRA, CCA, RFA, SIA and various other interested parties will be monitoring the developments on this subject. These times on the regulatory fronts are interesting for sure!

Standing by, Tony
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Last edited by SpearMax; 09-24-2008 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 09-24-2008, 10:51 AM   #6
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Re: SAFMC Approves 4-month spawning season closure for grouper + more restrictions!

Thanks Tony.
I guess it would be similar to people from Palm Beach traveling to areas to hunt in Federal waters where they might be able to shoot fish that are "protected" in State waters. ie. African Pompano.
Should be interesting. I personally would rather see smaller bag limits and less or no closures. (I never get my limit anyway. )
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Old 09-25-2008, 11:43 AM   #7
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Re: SAFMC Approves 4-month spawning season closure for grouper + more restrictions!

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Originally Posted by SpearMax View Post

8.) Spearboard.com, FRA, CCA, RFA, SIA and various other interested parties will be monitoring the developments on this subject. These times on the regulatory fronts are interesting for sure!
CCA approves of the grouper closure, the last I heard. They can suck my fat one for all I care. Geiger is an old CCA politician.

CFOA association is a small group that has done quite a bit that is following these issues and supporting fisherman's rights.
SFP, like spearboard, is on top of this issue, and has been represented in public comments during the last two Canaveral meetings.
And finally, John B of www.deep-blue-sea.org is another advocate who has made a tremendous impact by rallying people from miscellaneous fishing forums and spreading the awareness.

Just want to make sure that people here understand that there are people with day jobs like you and I behind the scenes that have sacrified quite a bit of time to this, and the talk on these forums is only a fraction of the frustration that is going on up and down the coast right now.
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Old 09-25-2008, 12:33 PM   #8
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Re: SAFMC Approves 4-month spawning season closure for grouper + more restrictions!

Awesome, the areas that most need the grouper "help" by a closure will now be everyones fishing hole for four months...

How about that one Muay Thai (Scott)...no fish in your area for the grandkids now!
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Old 09-26-2008, 02:35 PM   #9
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Re: SAFMC Approves 4-month spawning season closure for grouper + more restrictions!

I heard on the news that a similar situation was tried in the Gulf by the GFMC, and that a group of fisherman took the government to court. It was back in '05 I think, when the red grouper were in trouble. They wanted to close all grouper fishing, even though reds were only in trouble. Apparently they won the court case and the rule was changed so that is was only red grouper that were closed, instead of all grouper. Could that be a viable option in this case for the FRA to do, or some organized group of anglers?

It's even worse in the keys since we hardly see Gags.......
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Old 09-26-2008, 05:24 PM   #10
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Re: SAFMC Approves 4-month spawning season closure for grouper + more restrictions!

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It's even worse in the keys since we hardly see Gags.......

It's bad for us in Georgia too, since the aggregates don't help us out any....all we get are Gag's, you never see any Red's to add to your Gag limit.
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Old 09-27-2008, 01:51 PM   #11
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Re: SAFMC Approves 4-month spawning season closure for grouper + more restrictions!

J.B. , how long have you been fishing GA waters? There are loads of scamp grouper offshore of GA.
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Old 09-30-2008, 07:29 AM   #12
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Re: SAFMC Approves 4-month spawning season closure for grouper + more restrictions!

Gradyman,

It is sad but more than likely it'll only be for a year.

Scott
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Old 10-01-2008, 10:11 PM   #13
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Re: SAFMC Approves 4-month spawning season closure for grouper + more restrictions!

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Gradyman,
more than likely it'll only be for a year.

Scott
I highly doubt that this will only last a year. Nothing in fisheries management lasts for a year.....hell it takes them 2 years to collect faulty data...a year and a half to decide how to manipulate it to fit their vision of what should happen....another year and a half to have meetings where they tell the public they are getting F'ed in the A and then they publish new rules. You think after all that "work" they are going to let it last only a year.
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Old 10-02-2008, 10:06 AM   #14
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Re: SAFMC Approves 4-month spawning season closure for grouper + more restrictions!

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I highly doubt that this will only last a year. Nothing in fisheries management lasts for a year.....hell it takes them 2 years to collect faulty data...a year and a half to decide how to manipulate it to fit their vision of what should happen....another year and a half to have meetings where they tell the public they are getting F'ed in the A and then they publish new rules. You think after all that "work" they are going to let it last only a year.
I agree, Emil. "Emergency rules" are usually the foot-in-door for something more permanent. There is very little history of the NMFS reversing rules and limits to allow more daily take. If I am wrong on this, I would love to have some examples, b/c I can't remember any.
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Old 10-02-2008, 11:41 AM   #15
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Re: SAFMC Approves 4-month spawning season closure for grouper + more restrictions!

I think muay thai was trying to say that it will be only another year before they close it in state waters as well?
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