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Old 12-06-2017, 10:04 AM   #1
Marcus
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Jerusalem

Admitting my ignorance, can someone summarize the discourse that is prevalent in the latest news and why so many other religious nations consider it so important? Bueller?


"Declaration Of War": Trump Jerusalem Decision Sparks Outrage, Warning Of "A Fire With No End In Sight"

“He is declaring war in the Middle East, he is declaring war against 1.5 billion Muslims, hundreds of millions of Christians that are not going to accept the holy shrines to be totally under the hegemony of Israel"

I just don't understand the fanaticism. I also don't understand why he's applying efforts in this direction...now. For what gain? There's an underlying agenda that I'm not grasping. IMO, it goes back to draining the swamp and what Q has written. Fascinating. Call me, intrigued.
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:22 PM   #2
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Re: Jerusalem

Northstar? Just an informed comment??

SO, I understand that the Muslim world is totally against this. Why does it matter so much? Seriously?? Why are their undies all twisted up in their crack about this?
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:52 AM   #3
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Re: Jerusalem

Jerusalem has always been the capital city of Israel from the time of King David forward - approximately 1000 BC. In fact, Jerusalem has always been known by the name "The City of David" ever since that time.

The Old Testament says that when Solomon, David's son, built a temple within it in about 950 BC, God inhabited that temple, and declared Jerusalem to be the City of God, the place where God would place His Name and His special presence.

Thus for the Jews, the city of Jerusalem and the temple it contained would be forever holy to them, and was the most sacred place on earth.

The Jews continuously occupied it from 1000 BC (other than a brief dislocation for 70 years in 586 BC to 538 BC) until 70 AD, when driven out by Titus and the Roman legions, who flattened the Temple, and scattered the Jews across the world.

But the Jews always longed to return to their homeland of Israel, and realized that dream in 1948. For them, the land the city are theirs by right of historical possession, and by right of it being given to them by God.

The Muslims came into existence in about 622 AD when Mohammed went to Medina, located in modern day Saudi Arabia. All of Mohammeds activity took place in the Arabian Peninsula, and he was never in the land of Israel or even close to it. Nevertheless, Mohammed is said to have taken a 500 mile journey in one night on a magic horse to a place later declared by his followers to be the temple mount in Jerusalem, (Mohammed himself never said it was Jerusalem, only that it was a distant mosque) where the famous golden domed mosque is now constructed. Muslims claim it is their third holiest site, the first being the Dome of the rock in Mecca in Saudi Arabia. First built about 700 AD, it was rebuilt several times and remodeled clear up into the 1900's.

The claim of the followers of Mohammed has no historical evidence to back it up (how do you document a magic horse ride of 500 miles in one night?) whereas there is a huge amount of archeological evidence to document to Jewish presence there for at least a thousand years.

Christians certainly revere Jerusalem, but not in the way the Jews and Muslims do. Jesus was crucified there, but Christianity is not tied to a piece of real estate as necessary to its beliefs, existence, or worship.

So, both Jews and Muslims believe the piece of real estate is central to their belief system, and that is why they fight over it.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:40 AM   #4
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Re: Jerusalem

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Star View Post
Jerusalem has always been the capital city of Israel from the time of King David forward - approximately 1000 BC. In fact, Jerusalem has always been known by the name "The City of David" ever since that time.

The Old Testament says that when Solomon, David's son, built a temple within it in about 950 BC, God inhabited that temple, and declared Jerusalem to be the City of God, the place where God would place His Name and His special presence.

Thus for the Jews, the city of Jerusalem and the temple it contained would be forever holy to them, and was the most sacred place on earth.

The Jews continuously occupied it from 1000 BC (other than a brief dislocation for 70 years in 586 BC to 538 BC) until 70 AD, when driven out by Titus and the Roman legions, who flattened the Temple, and scattered the Jews across the world.

But the Jews always longed to return to their homeland of Israel, and realized that dream in 1948. For them, the land the city are theirs by right of historical possession, and by right of it being given to them by God.

The Muslims came into existence in about 622 AD when Mohammed went to Medina, located in modern day Saudi Arabia. All of Mohammeds activity took place in the Arabian Peninsula, and he was never in the land of Israel or even close to it. Nevertheless, Mohammed is said to have taken a 500 mile journey in one night on a magic horse to a place later declared by his followers to be the temple mount in Jerusalem, (Mohammed himself never said it was Jerusalem, only that it was a distant mosque) where the famous golden domed mosque is now constructed. Muslims claim it is their third holiest site, the first being the Dome of the rock in Mecca in Saudi Arabia. First built about 700 AD, it was rebuilt several times and remodeled clear up into the 1900's.

The claim of the followers of Mohammed has no historical evidence to back it up (how do you document a magic horse ride of 500 miles in one night?) whereas there is a huge amount of archeological evidence to document to Jewish presence there for at least a thousand years.

Christians certainly revere Jerusalem, but not in the way the Jews and Muslims do. Jesus was crucified there, but Christianity is not tied to a piece of real estate as necessary to its beliefs, existence, or worship.

So, both Jews and Muslims believe the piece of real estate is central to their belief system, and that is why they fight over it.
Thanks for the abbreviated version for dummies, I appreciate it since I am not familiar with nor study any of this stuff. I do have a Jewish brother in law, not an overly practicing Jew, but pretty well versed. I will see him in a few weeks to get the take on it from his perspective.

As for the political importance of this event, who knows, maybe Trump thinks it will give him more South Fl and New York votes????
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:53 AM   #5
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Re: Jerusalem

Thanks very much for the info, NS. I'm still confused as to why just now calling it the capital angers so many. Nothing has really changed.

Edit: This helps to make some sense of it. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...eclaration-war
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:21 PM   #6
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Re: Jerusalem

Understand that Islamic doctrine demands the destruction of the Jews - and of you too, because you are not a muslim. Islamic supremacy is at the core of their theology, and defines it. Alluah Akbar = God is greater = means that Islam and its god is greater than all other gods, and all peoples, religions, and beliefs must be brought into conformity to Islam, or else be destroyed.

Trump is right - keeping the embassy out of Jerusalem has never brought peace to Israel, and it never will, because Islam will not and cannot ever recognize the legitimacy of Israel - or America for that matter - because they are not Islamic, and are not in submission to sharia (Islamic) law.

Understand: you have to take sides in this matter. There is no reconciliation with Islam. Islam allows no live and let live philosophy. In their theology, you are either subjugated to it, to you must be destroyed by it.

You either stand with Islam or you stand against it.

That is why peace with Islam is a delusion. It is only a delaying tactic until they are strong enough to crush you. Islam will NEVER accommodate western civilization. It will NEVER assimilate. It will NEVER make peace with Israel. Not ever, no matter what happens - or doesn't happen. The embassy in Jerusalem makes no difference, other than to communicate to Islam that the West does not buy into nor does it bow before Islamic supremacy.

So, that is why they are furious. By moving the embassy, Trump just said: we do not recognize Islamic supremacy. That is an intolerable message to Islam. Thus, the outrage across the Islamic world.

We are in a religious war here. The sooner that is recognized the better. You crush the snake, or the snake kills you. It is time for Islam to be crushed. All it will ever do is strike with its venom toward its neighbors.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:00 PM   #7
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Re: Jerusalem

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Star View Post
Understand that Islamic doctrine demands the destruction of the Jews - and of you too, because you are not a muslim. Islamic supremacy is at the core of their theology, and defines it. Alluah Akbar = God is greater = means that Islam and its god is greater than all other gods, and all peoples, religions, and beliefs must be brought into conformity to Islam, or else be destroyed.

Trump is right - keeping the embassy out of Jerusalem has never brought peace to Israel, and it never will, because Islam will not and cannot ever recognize the legitimacy of Israel - or America for that matter - because they are not Islamic, and are not in submission to sharia (Islamic) law.

Understand: you have to take sides in this matter. There is no reconciliation with Islam. Islam allows no live and let live philosophy. In their theology, you are either subjugated to it, to you must be destroyed by it.

You either stand with Islam or you stand against it.

That is why peace with Islam is a delusion. It is only a delaying tactic until they are strong enough to crush you. Islam will NEVER accommodate western civilization. It will NEVER assimilate. It will NEVER make peace with Israel. Not ever, no matter what happens - or doesn't happen. The embassy in Jerusalem makes no difference, other than to communicate to Islam that the West does not buy into nor does it bow before Islamic supremacy.

So, that is why they are furious. By moving the embassy, Trump just said: we do not recognize Islamic supremacy. That is an intolerable message to Islam. Thus, the outrage across the Islamic world.

We are in a religious war here. The sooner that is recognized the better. You crush the snake, or the snake kills you. It is time for Islam to be crushed. All it will ever do is strike with its venom toward its neighbors.
NS, Thank you VERY much for your enlightened view. It has helped out tremendously.


Quote:
Understand that Islamic doctrine demands the destruction of the Jews - and of you too, because you are not a muslim. Islamic supremacy is at the core of their theology, and defines it. Alluah Akbar = God is greater = means that Islam and its god is greater than all other gods, and all peoples, religions, and beliefs must be brought into conformity to Islam, or else be destroyed.

Trump is right - keeping the embassy out of Jerusalem has never brought peace to Israel, and it never will, because Islam will not and cannot ever recognize the legitimacy of Israel - or America for that matter - because they are not Islamic, and are not in submission to sharia (Islamic) law.

Understand: you have to take sides in this matter. There is no reconciliation with Islam. Islam allows no live and let live philosophy. In their theology, you are either subjugated to it, to you must be destroyed by it.

You either stand with Islam or you stand against it.

That is why peace with Islam is a delusion. It is only a delaying tactic until they are strong enough to crush you. Islam will NEVER accommodate western civilization. It will NEVER assimilate. It will NEVER make peace with Israel. Not ever, no matter what happens - or doesn't happen. The embassy in Jerusalem makes no difference, other than to communicate to Islam that the West does not buy into nor does it bow before Islamic supremacy.
What's up w/ the fanaticism? You love your christian brother in the hopes of xforming them. They do the same? Where's the disconnect?
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:26 PM   #8
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Re: Jerusalem

Understand that Islam is nothing like Christianity, especially in the way they treat others. There is nothing about loving your non-muslim brother in Islam. Non muslims are to be enslaved, not loved.

This presentation of Islam 101 will help you to understand: https://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:35 PM   #9
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Re: Jerusalem

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Star View Post
Understand that Islam is nothing like Christianity, especially in the way they treat others. There is nothing about loving your non-muslim brother in Islam. Non muslims are to be enslaved, not loved.

This presentation of Islam 101 will help you to understand: https://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101
I lived in the UK now, my next door neighbors are devout Muslims. When my wife was pregnant and when our daughter was born they insisted on dropping by food or inviting us into their home at least once a week. They work hard, contribute to society and are all around good people. This goes for most of the Muslim people that I meet- just normal people going about their lives despite the nuttiness of the doctrine that they were born into. Have you even met a Muslim person?
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:58 PM   #10
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Re: Jerusalem

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Originally Posted by JJohansen View Post
I lived in the UK now, my next door neighbors are devout Muslims. When my wife was pregnant and when our daughter was born they insisted on dropping by food or inviting us into their home at least once a week. They work hard, contribute to society and are all around good people. This goes for most of the Muslim people that I meet- just normal people going about their lives despite the nuttiness of the doctrine that they were born into. Have you even met a Muslim person?
I have met many Muslins, both in Europe and here in the US.

I will say that I've taken to all other religions as far as being comfortable with a hand-out-in cheer or some good conversations, yet I must say the Muslins I've met are deceptive and will cheat you if you let them. They seem to consider the "host" countrymen as fools and the Jew equivalent as Goyim. That's why I agree with NS mostly - they will destroy our country if given the chance, so I wont and all westerners shouldn't.

I have a younger friend who fishes with a family - he's treated as a complete outsider although without him, they would never had a remote chance of being successful in the marine hunt... Pisses me off.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:15 PM   #11
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Re: Jerusalem

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Star View Post
Understand that Islam is nothing like Christianity, especially in the way they treat others. There is nothing about loving your non-muslim brother in Islam. Non muslims are to be enslaved, not loved.

This presentation of Islam 101 will help you to understand: https://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101
Jews have about the same attitude as muslims if they are extremists.Some of the Baptist hillbillies up here get a little goofy with their version of gods word.There are reasons for stereotypes and there are the exceptions.
I have a friend that is Palestinean that would give his life for me and another friend that is muslim but from Cambodia.Two different cultures and almost two different religions from their telling of Islam.Both are not what you would call radicals.They are pretty clear about their views and what extremists would do to their families given the opportunity.
There is a reason they left their mother countries to Canada and the USA.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:25 PM   #12
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Re: Jerusalem

Wow...I didn't mean to start a fire. NS, thanks for your knowledge dump. I'm sorry for goading you to respond. Religious beliefs are certainly personal and passionate. The ability to mitigate those feelings and speak to others that harbor the same passionate feelings is what has stopped many wars.
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:41 PM   #13
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Re: Jerusalem

If Islam is violent, why are so many Muslims peaceful?

This question is a bit like asking, “If Christianity teaches humility, tolerance, and forgiveness, why are so many Christians arrogant, intolerant, and vindictive?” The answer in both cases is obvious: in any religion or ideology there will be many who profess, but do not practice, its tenets. Just as it is often easier for a Christian to hit back, play holier-than-thou, or disdain others, so it is often easier for a Muslim to stay at home rather than embark on jihad. Hypocrites are everywhere.

Furthermore, there are also people who do not really understand their own faith and so act outside of its prescribed boundaries. In Islam, there are likely many Muslims who do not really understand their religion thanks to the importance of reciting the Quran in Arabic but not having to understand it. It is the words and sounds of the Quran that attract Allah’s merciful attention rather than Quranic knowledge on the part of the supplicant. Especially in the West, Muslims here are more likely to be attracted by Western ways (which explains why they are here) and less likely to act violently against the society to which they may have fled from an Islamic tyranny abroad.

However, in any given social context, as Islam takes greater root — increasing numbers of followers, the construction of more mosques and “cultural centers,” etc. — the greater the likelihood that some number of its adherents will take its violent precepts seriously. This is the problem that the West faces today.

Not so much in America yet - but Europe is inundated with Islamic violence. America has gotten a taste of it at Boston, Orlando, San Bernardino, Fort Hood, Dallas, etc., and it will increase as Islamic population increases.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:07 PM   #14
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Re: Jerusalem

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- but Europe is inundated with Islamic violence. America has gotten a taste of it

Crap. I didn't mean to start a holy war but this sentence is quite relevant. Blame the globalists like Soros for such...for he is directly implicated. He has donated millions to keep radical M.E. refugees flooding into Europe.
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:38 AM   #15
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Re: Jerusalem

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Originally Posted by JJohansen View Post
I lived in the UK now, my next door neighbors are devout Muslims. When my wife was pregnant and when our daughter was born they insisted on dropping by food or inviting us into their home at least once a week. They work hard, contribute to society and are all around good people. This goes for most of the Muslim people that I meet- just normal people going about their lives despite the nuttiness of the doctrine that they were born into. Have you even met a Muslim person?
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Star View Post
If Islam is violent, why are so many Muslims peaceful?

This question is a bit like asking, “If Christianity teaches humility, tolerance, and forgiveness, why are so many Christians arrogant, intolerant, and vindictive?” The answer in both cases is obvious: in any religion or ideology there will be many who profess, but do not practice, its tenets. Just as it is often easier for a Christian to hit back, play holier-than-thou, or disdain others, so it is often easier for a Muslim to stay at home rather than embark on jihad. Hypocrites are everywhere.

Furthermore, there are also people who do not really understand their own faith and so act outside of its prescribed boundaries. In Islam, there are likely many Muslims who do not really understand their religion thanks to the importance of reciting the Quran in Arabic but not having to understand it. It is the words and sounds of the Quran that attract Allah’s merciful attention rather than Quranic knowledge on the part of the supplicant. Especially in the West, Muslims here are more likely to be attracted by Western ways (which explains why they are here) and less likely to act violently against the society to which they may have fled from an Islamic tyranny abroad.

However, in any given social context, as Islam takes greater root — increasing numbers of followers, the construction of more mosques and “cultural centers,” etc. — the greater the likelihood that some number of its adherents will take its violent precepts seriously. This is the problem that the West faces today.

Not so much in America yet - but Europe is inundated with Islamic violence. America has gotten a taste of it at Boston, Orlando, San Bernardino, Fort Hood, Dallas, etc., and it will increase as Islamic population increases.

The misadventures of Europe are proving that a million Muslim immigrants is not at all the same a a thousand.

It really does not matter how nice, good, kind, and moral the Muslim family next door is when you have a horde of immigrants who insist that your culture must change to accommodate theirs.

It seems that peace is most unlikely beyond a certain critical mass of Islamic adherents.
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