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Old 03-29-2014, 12:04 AM   #46
Gronchula
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

I'd actually call it atrocious behavior - especially as a representative of a competing business.
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Old 03-29-2014, 03:45 AM   #47
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

I think it should be pointed out that not all shafts mentioned are the same.

High Carbon steel shafts: These are hardened steel shafts that are very stiff and hard due to the high carbon content, but they need a coating to resist corrosion. Personally I cannot use these shafts as in the high salinity water I hunt in and the high humidity makes these shafts not practical. Threads on these shafts are especially susceptible to corrosion as the threads have sharp edges that dramatically accelerate corrosion. But their low cost and super high strength and hardness at a very low cost makes them a good choice for many.

17-4PH Stainless Steel: This is more commonly known as spring stainless steel and it is the most commonly used stainless steel shaft for spearguns. It is heat treated and thus achieves extra hardness than your normal SS shaft. It has excellent corrosion characteristics but it needs specialized equipment to weld fins on and the welding uses very high heat that if not controlled properly can cause shafts to warp and lose their absolute straightness.

52HRC Sandvik and other sandvik SS: This is a stainless steel that is usually milder than the 17-4PH and is not as stiff and is not hardened. Many european shafts are made of this material or other similar material, but really I personally don't like it too much as it is not stiff and can whip at a much lower threshold than other shafts. The older Abellan shafts were made from this material (now moved to 17-4).

UHT stainless steel: I don't know of many people manufacturing these shafts but Vector Marine was making them for a while. Have never tried them but from what I read they are really good in terms of hardness and corrosion resistance as well as durability. I am not sure of their technical specs but they could be similar to the Trygons heat treated high chromium concentrated stainless steel alloy. They cost about double what a normal shaft does and is probably why they are not seen much.

I have tried shafts from Mori and other custom shops. The shafts are usually meticulously made and reach almost jewellery status in finishing. But to be honest I was not too happy with my Mori shafts as they were way too soft and again would need an ET or reduced power load to shoot accurately. Metal and metal alloys are a science onto themselves, and I really think it is best to leave that part to people that are specialists in metallurgy with regards to precipitation hardening or heat treatment. You really need a specialized oven with a properly designed heat treatment program that is dependent on the exact metallurgical makeup of your metal ... something I would think would not be possible with the smaller shops. A couple of years ago I really went all out trying to find the best performing floppered shaft and by far the best was the Sporasub America One shaft. Nothing even comes close to it in terms of accuracy or flight characteristics. It uses a 17-4ph SS shaft that uses metal injection molding for the fins. It also has a thinner flopper that allows for less resistance in water but is still strong as the flopper is made of hardened SS. Only problem is that this shaft comes at a maximum of 7mm and thus limits use for a lot of people. But I wish more people will look into that design and learn from it and make that shaft even better. Omer recently bought out Sporasub and started micro laser welding the MIM fins (which was great), but unfortunately they went cheap with the floppers and slapped on their normal cheap Omer floppers and totally destroyed what would have been an incredible shaft. So best bet would still be the Sporasub America One shaft if you can still find them and if you can live with the 7mm limitation. The good news is that these shafts are also not so expensive.
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Old 03-29-2014, 04:02 AM   #48
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

Great Write up spearq8! Thanks for taking the time to write up such a detailed report.
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Old 03-29-2014, 09:26 AM   #49
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

x2 metallurgy is a bit beyond me but interests me.
Thank you,
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Old 03-29-2014, 01:50 PM   #50
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

Good write up Spearq8.

"It's not what you say it's what you do." Stop the mud slinging, it just makes you look bad, let your products speak for themselves.

What has been stated previously by several, is that post production processes to improve the straightness, surface profile, machining, quality, etc. are important and what sets a higher bar.

However all that gets thrown out the window if you choose to source your raw material from a certain country that is universally known for their complete and utter disregard for strict adherence to guide and performance specifications in terms of metallurgy and production tolerances. It borders on downright sabotage. Sourcing material is one thing, but if you decide to decrease production costs by having your product manufactured there, you should not be the least bit surprised when a copy hits the market a little while later.

I'll go out of my way to avoid products and materials from that country at all costs. If citizens of the world continue to demand/buy cheap over quality, then quality manufactures will not be able to compete. Their choice is capitulate or die. If you can imagine a world where all tangible objects and materials are not held to specifications and regulations, planned obsolesce and catastrophic failures become the norm. It doesn't take a war to show that if you are a country that does not have a robust manufacturing sector, or GDP….you are a sitting duck.

Demand quality, and you will get it!
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Old 03-29-2014, 06:36 PM   #51
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

I have always had good luck with Mako and Neptonics.
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Old 03-30-2014, 12:09 AM   #52
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by splitfish View Post
Great Service Mako! Your service matches your products.

1> I posted pictures of faulty shaft I received from mako.

2> Instead of addressing the faulty shaft DANO/ MAKO tells me.. this behavior of yours is rather unusual. Don’t recall shipping a shaft to you. I’m taking the high road.

3> Then DANO tells me its suspicious that my wife ordered the shaft.
DANO SAYS Da**** M**** apparently bought a shaft from us, seems to be“misleading”.

IN CONCLUSION... GREAT WAY TO DEAL WITH A PROBLEM DANO!! IMMEDIATELY ACCUSE ME OF "UNUSUAL BEHAVIOR" because I posted a picture of the shaft you sent me on a thread about the Amazing quality of mako shafts.

Then accuse me of being misleading because my wife bought the shaft. Way to GO MAKO.
It seems instead you used this to take additional shots at Dano and didn't really answer anything I asked. You just repeated what you said previously. I can read you know...and I'll assume since I was the last to ask anything and had an A, B, C format your 1, 2, 3 responses were directed at my questions. Dano mentioned you work at Neptonics? How about some professional courtesy? You and a few other posters here say he's in the wrong but all I see is him trying to defend himself from your own accusations. I only see one person in this who is in the wrong and it's you.

As for the shafts, alot of them are made in South Africa, I don't care for the process I care about the results and I've shot Mako shafts into rocks, wrecks, fish, all without any issue besides occasional sharpening which is expected with that kindof abuse from any shaft.

Now I suggest taking Dano's advice and bringing this to him directly instead of bashing him on here, as you appear to have dodged my question about WHY your bashing him.

For the record, all this threads shown me is certain companies have a pretty low standard for courtesy and I would hope that doesn't carry over to their customers or you can be damned sure I won't be buying from them regardless of how "superior" their product is.
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:14 AM   #53
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

I have an actual question...

On your guys' custom shafts page, I see no option for 3 loading tabs... Are they made with 3 once the shafts hit a certain size?
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Old 10-08-2017, 03:33 PM   #54
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

Another question: are the threaded shafts 6mm or 5/16?
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Old 10-08-2017, 06:00 PM   #55
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

Hey guys,

All 5/16 shafts have 3 tabs and all 9/32 shafts. Have 2 tabs.

Any other questions feel free to call us at our Tampa, Long Beach or Ventura locations!

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Old 11-14-2017, 10:12 PM   #56
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
I think it should be pointed out that not all shafts mentioned are the same.

High Carbon steel shafts: These are hardened steel shafts that are very stiff and hard due to the high carbon content, but they need a coating to resist corrosion. Personally I cannot use these shafts as in the high salinity water I hunt in and the high humidity makes these shafts not practical. Threads on these shafts are especially susceptible to corrosion as the threads have sharp edges that dramatically accelerate corrosion. But their low cost and super high strength and hardness at a very low cost makes them a good choice for many.

17-4PH Stainless Steel: This is more commonly known as spring stainless steel and it is the most commonly used stainless steel shaft for spearguns. It is heat treated and thus achieves extra hardness than your normal SS shaft. It has excellent corrosion characteristics but it needs specialized equipment to weld fins on and the welding uses very high heat that if not controlled properly can cause shafts to warp and lose their absolute straightness.

52HRC Sandvik and other sandvik SS: This is a stainless steel that is usually milder than the 17-4PH and is not as stiff and is not hardened. Many european shafts are made of this material or other similar material, but really I personally don't like it too much as it is not stiff and can whip at a much lower threshold than other shafts. The older Abellan shafts were made from this material (now moved to 17-4).

UHT stainless steel: I don't know of many people manufacturing these shafts but Vector Marine was making them for a while. Have never tried them but from what I read they are really good in terms of hardness and corrosion resistance as well as durability. I am not sure of their technical specs but they could be similar to the Trygons heat treated high chromium concentrated stainless steel alloy. They cost about double what a normal shaft does and is probably why they are not seen much.

I have tried shafts from Mori and other custom shops. The shafts are usually meticulously made and reach almost jewellery status in finishing. But to be honest I was not too happy with my Mori shafts as they were way too soft and again would need an ET or reduced power load to shoot accurately. Metal and metal alloys are a science onto themselves, and I really think it is best to leave that part to people that are specialists in metallurgy with regards to precipitation hardening or heat treatment. You really need a specialized oven with a properly designed heat treatment program that is dependent on the exact metallurgical makeup of your metal ... something I would think would not be possible with the smaller shops. A couple of years ago I really went all out trying to find the best performing floppered shaft and by far the best was the Sporasub America One shaft. Nothing even comes close to it in terms of accuracy or flight characteristics. It uses a 17-4ph SS shaft that uses metal injection molding for the fins. It also has a thinner flopper that allows for less resistance in water but is still strong as the flopper is made of hardened SS. Only problem is that this shaft comes at a maximum of 7mm and thus limits use for a lot of people. But I wish more people will look into that design and learn from it and make that shaft even better. Omer recently bought out Sporasub and started micro laser welding the MIM fins (which was great), but unfortunately they went cheap with the floppers and slapped on their normal cheap Omer floppers and totally destroyed what would have been an incredible shaft. So best bet would still be the Sporasub America One shaft if you can still find them and if you can live with the 7mm limitation. The good news is that these shafts are also not so expensive.
Well said! I will add that all steel and especially all 17-4 stainless is not the same. Not even close!
Cheap or foreign made steels (particularly Stainless) can be full of contaminants and it often has twists and bends that can't be removed by any process.
Straitening machines remove bends, not twists and that goes for all steels...
Cheap and foreign steels will often become less accurate with every shot.

Poor heat treating of stainless will cause problems as well. Spears can be too soft (bend easily) or too hard (brittle).
Springs steel shafts are typically much cheaper but they have a relatively short lifespan (rust) and often have twists, which IMHO is nearly as bad as a bend.

Poor welding can cause huge distortions in the metal, misalignment of the fins and cooking off the properties that make stainless steel, stainless in the first place.

There really is a ton of science and factors that go into spearshafts that the average diver will never know.
It always amazes me how someone will spend a wheelbarrow full of money on a super sweet custom speargun and then put the cheapest, piece of junk shaft they can find in it.
Then they wonder why they cant stone anything or even hit anything consistently...

There is a wide disparity in cost with regards to shafts for many reasons but it typically boils down to quality...
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