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Old 09-27-2009, 03:49 PM   #46
Summerland Key
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Re: Permit Public Workshops are coming soon to a location near you!

diverlen:
Yes, it is entertaining, but after all is said and done, what was accomplished? Not much. We are still back to where we started, with no management decisions being influenced.
Just for more laughs, should we have a poll to see who (Rich or Bill) won the last pissing contest? Don
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:37 PM   #47
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Re: Permit Public Workshops are coming soon to a location near you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Summerland Key View Post
diverlen:
Yes, it is entertaining, but after all is said and done, what was accomplished? Not much. We are still back to where we started, with no management decisions being influenced.
Just for more laughs, should we have a poll to see who (Rich or Bill) won the last pissing contest? Don

Don, despite all the silliness on this thread, we both know it's about the resource and the best use of that pulic resource. bill perks is merely an entertaining freak show.
Whenever Ive mentioned his name to someone in science or management (who know of him), they ALWAYS roll their eyes and let out a groan, and that is a fact I will swear to under oath. Like you said, he is an a-hole and proud of it. Fortunately, everyone in cyberspace knows it to.
It's really to bad he is so full of hate and venom. Things like that truly poison your sole.
Its clearly obvious from his response to my posts that he has me confused with someone else although I suppose I should be flattered that he thinks I somehow have so much power and influence over so many people.

Finally, even though I often disagree with people Like diverlen, I know in my heart that we both seek the exact same thing which is healthy, sustainable resources for ourselves and our childrens children.

Last edited by RichT; 09-27-2009 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:45 PM   #48
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Re: Permit Public Workshops are coming soon to a location near you!

So Don, back to the real subject-PERMIT
Now that you are on here maybe you can answer some questions.
Were you one of the people who requested the FWC take a closer look at Permit rules?
I don't ask this in an accusatory way as there certainly could be some clarification of rules regarding Federal waters as well as some things that could be done to help keep the population sustainable.
It may also help clear your name to this board if you didnt.

And, everyone else has conveniently avoided this question so
maybe you could answer it?
What science, stastics or ouija board has suddenly come to light since the last stock assesment that shows Permit are in need of protection from spearfisherman??
Surely it cant be a handfull of pictures, from various people around the State, showing family level fishing on some internet chat boards?

Last edited by RichT; 09-27-2009 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:51 PM   #49
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Re: Permit Public Workshops are coming soon to a location near you!

Rich, This is the best you can do? Oh, yeah...of course it is.




Quote:
Originally Posted by RichT View Post
Don, despite all the silliness on this thread, we both know it's about the resource and the best use of that pulic resource. bill perks is merely an entertaining freak show.
Whenever Ive mentioned his name to someone in science or management (who know of him), they ALWAYS roll their eyes and let out a groan, and that is a fact I will swear to under oath. Like you said, he is an a-hole and proud of it. Fortunately, everyone in cyberspace knows it to.
It's really to bad he is so full of hate and venom. Things like that truly poison your sole.
Its clearly obvious from his response to my posts that he has me confused with someone else although I suppose I should be flattered that he thinks I somehow have so much power and influence over so many people.

Finally, even though I often disagree with people Like diverlen, I know in my heart that we both seek the exact same thing which is healthy, sustainable resources for ourselves and our childrens children.
Eye rolls, on the part of managers? I have no doubt. We both share that honor, Rich. One difference, though.......I generally get what I want out of well respected managers, including trust, cooperation, good regs and funny jokes about you guys. You just get eyerolls. What else could I ever want out of this process? Freak show? In your opinion? I can live with that.


I really like your nice philosophical language about the resource here at the end of this, as usual, after you've had the living shit beat out of you. It's all B.S. coming from you, as always, as your track record shows, but it sounds nice.
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:08 PM   #50
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Re: Permit Public Workshops are coming soon to a location near you!

Rich:

Yes, myself, and many others became concerned about the permit issue, but only after learning Florida's rules on permit did not extend into Federal waters and there were basically no rules that applied to permit in Federal waters.

It is my understanding, from talking with FWC staff, that even the two fish per boat does not apply. I can take my boat out to a spawning aggregation of permit and net, spear, hook and line, etc. 20,000-100,000 or what ever my boat will hold. As long as I do not stop in state waters on the return trip, it is legal, just like the powerhead rule. I think you would agree this is cause for concern?

I have requested that the FWC not only look at this permit state/federal loophole, but also at all spearfishing rules with the assistance of an ad hoc type working group of spearfishermen. I fail to understand why, for example, it is prohibited to spear tripletail, and I don't understand the rational behind a prohibition on the spearing of sharks. It would seem that since so many sharks are protected that a more selective method of harvest, like spearfishing, would be preferred.

So, Rich, it is not that I am some sort of anti spearfishing fanatic, as many have been led to believe. I just think we need to use our heads when dealing with these issues and recoginize the wishes of other user groups, no matter how absurd some demands may seem. Historically, spearfishermen (myself included) have not done such a good job of representing ourselves in a process that is highly political and discriminatory.

Don
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Old 09-27-2009, 07:18 PM   #51
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Re: Permit Public Workshops are coming soon to a location near you!

we spearfishing man should fight back , maybe have a size limit , a certain amount you can catch , and maybe make spearfishing with scuba illegal , , spearfishing on apnea is a sport that should be a right for everyone i dont see it fair that fat guys drinking beer from a boat are allowed to fish from their boat , and we that we select our fish , shoot only what were going to eat , every spearo should fight back
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Old 09-30-2009, 02:22 PM   #52
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Re: Permit Public Workshops are coming soon to a location near you!

From the state's report:

FWRI Status and Trends Report
classified permit as stable

Commercial landings have been stable since 1999

In 2007, the recreational fishery accounted for 76%
of total statewide landings

In 2007, 86% of statewide landings were on the Gulf
coast
And a fallicy:
permit are not more diver friendly when aggregating
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Old 09-30-2009, 02:23 PM   #53
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Re: Permit Public Workshops are coming soon to a location near you!

http://myfwc.com/NEWSROOM/09/statewi...rmitWkshps.htm

Hey all- Denny here.

The FWC would like to hear from YOU about the future of permit fishing in Florida’s State and federal waters.
The issue of permit is going to bring spearfishing into the limelight. Time for us to shine.

It would be nice to see a strong turnout Monday and Tuesday night.
After you read this email, check out the 14 slide general presentation at http://myfwc.com/docs/CommissionMeet...ion_update.pdf

If you can make it, you should show up at one of the following meetings. I was just made aware that the FWC is doing a survey of all attendees. The Commissioners like these survey results. We should make a strong showing.
The FRA will record Monday Evening’s meeting for those who were unable to attend the workshop. You will be able to submit comments through Thanksgiving via email or letter.

Points to consider and express:
First and foremost, we are good stewards of our fisheries.
Permit are not in trouble, or are they even close to being in trouble.

Spawning permit are no less skittish than non-spawning permit. If one gets disturbed, they all swim away, fast.

Locations of spawning aggregations are not appearing to be an issue, as the entire state of Florida had commercial landings of permit in 2008 of less than 18,000 pounds. Hardly a problem worth closing fishing down over.

There exists a currently unexploited ‘loophole’ in fisheries regulations for permit in federal waters. To prevent any unintended exploitation, we support a commercial trip limit implementation guided by sound judgment. Further, we suggest that the recreational bag limit of 6 pompano or permit per angler per day, with one over 20” allowed, two max over 20 per vessel, with a minimum FL of 11” be considered off of the state of Florida in Federal Waters.
We oppose any prohibition of spearfishing gear use whatsoever.

We request that the current prohibition of spearfishing gear being used in the state waters permit fishery be lifted, as there is no validation of the logic used to prohibit the gear in the first place.

Since there is no problem with the stock, we feel that there is no need for any actions that may reduce recreational fishing activity, given that current levels of catch appear to be quite sustainable. Any closure is unnecessary, economically destructive and unacceptable.

We support the FWC’s attempts to understand and manage our fisheries. We hope, in this case, that the FWC will realize the need to spend its limited resources on more pressing concerns.

ALL MEETINGS ARE FROM 6 - 8 PM

Wednesday, Sept. 30
City of Key Colony Beach
City Hall Building - Auditorium
Mile Marker 53.5
600 W. Ocean Drive
Key Colony Beach

Monday, Oct. 5
FWC Fish and Wildlife Research Institute
3rd Floor Conference Room
100 Eighth Avenue S.E.
St. Petersburg

Tuesday, Oct. 6
Joseph P. D'Alessandro Office Complex
2295 Victoria Ave.
Fort Myers
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Last edited by Denny; 10-02-2009 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:30 PM   #54
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Re: Permit Public Workshops are coming soon to a location near you!

links don't work for me.
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Old 09-30-2009, 08:43 PM   #55
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Re: Permit Public Workshops are coming soon to a location near you!

Sorry about that. The links are fixed now.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:25 AM   #56
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Re: Permit Public Workshops are coming soon to a location near you!

The FRA will record tonight's meeting and post it on the FRA website, along with links for submitting comments to the FWC Commissioners.
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:21 AM   #57
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Re: Permit Public Workshops are coming soon to a location near you!

Wow, I gotta move Rich up a few notches after reading all the BS within this thread. I have often disagreed with Rich in the past, but he's gained alot of credibilty here today.
I'd also have to say this Permit discussion has shown some true colors of Bimini, nothing but a loud mouth and no cred trying to pat him self on the back.
I don't mind hearing Summerlands opinions. He seems to be able to present his point with credibility, but usually leans a tad conservative for me. It seems he stands beside Bimini to close and does not fight it, but his real opinions are actually not the same as Biminis.
It appears to me closing the permit loophole is really of no concern for anyone except for one thing. Spearfisherman should not have been part of State water species banned, and we don't want that to follow into Fed waters. It should be no big deal as Permit harvest by spearfisherman, as it is with no regs what-so-ever in fed waters, is a extremely small amount.
The concern is really more of a finger pointing issue toward, if spearfisherman are banned from harvest it makes a statment that spearfiherman are somehow a problem in the save the Permit thing. A few here are up in arms there is a shortage of Permit and they need saved (Bimini and follower types like Len) A few just want the zero reg in fed waters loophole closed so comercials don't wipe them out (virtually everyone else). Then there us few spearfisherman who also want the loophole closed but simply want to throw a little change in the copying the State regs to Fed regs to allow spearing, since we never deserved to be banned from harvest of the species from the beggining (in State waters).
I have no intentions of spearing Permit, but as a spearfisherman I don't like people thinking spearfisherman need to be banned from spearing them.
I do like the idea of the option to spear a Permit someday should I choose to harvest one.
Reality is: Permit are probably the easiest species to hook and line over spearing. Step 1. go to wreck, step 2. drop crab on hook overboard, step 3 reel in Permit. If they are on that wreck they will be in the boat alot faster rod and reel, than screwing dive gear. If there ever was a species that needed protection from rod and reel over the spear, it is the Permit. But until the Permit species gets beaten down, this entire conversation is a mute point. Somehow here we are fighting with some moron pointing at Spearfisherman as them being a problem with a species that noone else agrees is a problem. A good conversation to loose alot of credibilty in. Or, as with Rich, a good conversation to gain alot of credibility. Rich! It must be nice to have such a easy fight, to fight, for a change. This topic is so rediculous all it does is show who wants to ban everything, as much as they can, that comes up.
Cheers to you too Denny!
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:24 AM   #58
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Re: Permit Public Workshops are coming soon to a location near you!

Hey Grin Boy!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grin View Post
Wow, I gotta move Rich up a few notches after reading all the BS within this thread. I have often disagreed with Rich in the past, but he's gained alot of credibilty here today. With who? You? So what?
I'd also have to say this Permit discussion has shown some true colors of Bimini, nothing but a loud mouth and no cred trying to pat him self on the back. And your opinion counts? Only in your scout hut.
I don't mind hearing Summerlands opinions. He seems to be able to present his point with credibility, but usually leans a tad conservative for me. It seems he stands beside Bimini to close and does not fight it, but his real opinions are actually not the same as Biminis. You did always have a perception problem, didn't you?
It appears to me closing the permit loophole is really of no concern for anyone except for one thing. Spearfisherman should not have been part of State water species banned, and we don't want that to follow into Fed waters. Surprise, surprise! I agree with that...always did....the problem is politics even though all you do is bash me for pointing that out. I guess the concept is too complicated for you. Hopefully this isn't the case for the rest.It should be no big deal as Permit harvest by spearfisherman, as it is with no regs what-so-ever in fed waters, is a extremely small amount.Yes, but the potential to slam the hell out of them by any of a number of gear methods during the spawning aggregation season is too great to ignore.
The concern is really more of a finger pointing issue toward, if spearfisherman are banned from harvest it makes a statment that spearfiherman are somehow a problem in the save the Permit thing. I agree completely. If you had bothered to try to understand my points you'd know that but you enjoy the adrenalin rush of ranting and raving too much to accept that.A few here are up in arms there is a shortage of Permit and they need saved (Bimini and follower types like Len) A few just want the zero reg in fed waters loophole closed so comercials don't wipe them out (virtually everyone else). Then there us few spearfisherman who also want the loophole closed but simply want to throw a little change in the copying the State regs to Fed regs to allow spearing, since we never deserved to be banned from harvest of the species from the beggining (in State waters). I agree completely. Just have everyone leave them alone while they spawn.
I have no intentions of spearing Permit, but as a spearfisherman I don't like people thinking spearfisherman need to be banned from spearing them.
I do like the idea of the option to spear a Permit someday should I choose to harvest one.Me, too!
Reality is: Permit are probably the easiest species to hook and line over spearing. Step 1. go to wreck, step 2. drop crab on hook overboard, step 3 reel in Permit. If they are on that wreck they will be in the boat alot faster rod and reel, than screwing dive gear. If there ever was a species that needed protection from rod and reel over the spear, it is the Permit. Maybe, maybe not but don't make such a self-damaging remark since the hook and liners will then redouble their efforts to get rid of spearos. The battle would look like the Poles on horseback fighting German tanks September 1, 1939.But until the Permit species gets beaten down, this entire conversation is a mute point. Somehow here we are fighting with some moron pointing at Spearfisherman as them being a problem with a species that noone else agrees is a problem. A good conversation to loose alot of credibilty in. Or, as with Rich, a good conversation to gain alot of credibility. Rich! It must be nice to have such a easy fight, to fight, for a change. This topic is so rediculous all it does is show who wants to ban everything, as much as they can, that comes up.I have to admit that Denny's learned a lot in the last couple of years. You don't see him ranting like your hero Rich does. If you think the crap that comes out of Rich helps his or your credibility then you just don't understand the situation. Surprise Grin...ole Bill actually SUPPORTS spearing permit - in the right place at the right time.

Cheers to you too Denny!
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:38 AM   #59
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Re: Permit Public Workshops are coming soon to a location near you!

It's far from a done deal but its amazing what a bunch of "dumb shits" (as bimini bill likes to call us) can accomplish when working together!

Seems FWC staff did their part listening to the FRA and stakeholders opinions and taking EVERYTHING into account.

On Dec. 10th in Clewiston, FL they will make the following recommendations to the FWC Commissioners regarding permit (and African Pompano):

Extending State Regulations into Federal Water - Recreational Regulations

Recreational Size and Bag Limits --> Recommend same regulations in Federal waters

Recreational Gear Restrictions --> New regulations in Federal waters:

Hook and line only for slot limit (11-20 inches)
Allow spearing for fish greater than 20 inches (inside 2 max/vessel)


Extending State Regulations into Federal Water - Commercial Regulations

Staff to recommend the following:

Maintain 11-20 inch slot limit
Do not allow possession of any permit over 20 inches
Trip limit of 250 permit in both state and federal waters
Hook and line only in state and federal waters
Pompano Enforsement Zone


Spawning Closure

Recommended --> No spawning season closure at this time

Additional Recommendations:

Recommended --> No gamefish status or catch and release only at this time

Recommended --> No trophy tag at this time





The above is the good news and a large step forward but the commision is under no obligation to follow staff recomendations. It is likely going to take additional public testimony at the Dec. 10th meeting to convince the Commissioners. FWC Staff has told me that we need to encourage people we know to attend the meeting and speak on this issue. It will be first thing in the morning on Dec. 10th. We also need to encourage everyone we know to email the Commissioners at: Commissioners@MyFWC.com with our opinions. (Please accept the Staff's recommendations!!)


Also, thank you to EVERYONE who emailed, wrote letters, made phone calls, and attended the public workshops. Not only do I appreciate it but the FWC staff working on this issue appreicated it.
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Old 12-12-2009, 09:08 AM   #60
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Re: Permit Public Workshops are coming soon to a location near you!

http://spearboard.com/showthread.php...ghlight=permit

Looks like the good guys fighting fior fairness, common sense, and healthy resources won this one.
Better luck next time bimminibill.
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