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Dive Training for Free Diving or Scuba Diving Discuss and learn about dive training for free diving or scuba diving in any geographical region.

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Old 08-06-2013, 11:52 AM   #31
Ryanfish
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Re: Trained Freedivers

Ahh Tom you have figured out the secret to my deep diving. I'm an Eagle Scout.
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:43 PM   #32
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Re: Trained Freedivers

In everything we do there is Risk. Freediving has significant risk and those who participate need to respect that risk. I think training helps with safety and that the buddy system is one of the best safeguards, although not foolproof. Divers engage in the sport to challenge themselves and for the thrill of the hunt. It is supposed to be Fun. I personally think that the FII safety protocols should be followed, but understand that they are not a 100% guarantee that you wont die, they only help mitigate the risk. I am OK with that risk.

I think Killian is trying to say that divers need to respect the sport and dive within their personal limitations and take responsibility for their own actions and making the safety protocols so stringent that it takes the Fun out of it.

Again, I am an advocate for following FII safety protocols but understand that they only mitigate the risk not eliminate it. There is a fine line between being "safe" and at the same challenge yourself to improve your diving performance.

Where is the line that you can mitigate the risk and still continue to challenge yourself while having fun??
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Old 08-06-2013, 02:12 PM   #33
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Re: Trained Freedivers

I know guys that can hunt at 100'. I can't.

I know guys that can hunt for 3+minutes on a breath. I can't.

But I still kill fish, and I still catch lobsters. I usually don't come in last place in tournaments either.

I accept my limitations, even when they are seeing the biggest fish. Even when they tell me to quit being a p*ssy. I want to improve. I want to go deeper. But I want to do them in a controlled environment first, under supervision. Not in the middle of a tournament with poor vis and a whipping current.

I hear a lot about the FRV. Mainly I hear things like "man, it would be nice to have one of those," and "It costs so much money!" Is the FRV the answer to prevent divers being lost forever? Who knows. It would be nice to see more of them being purchased and worn. Just owning it doesn't help. You actually have to wear it. It may not save your life, but it could prevent your body from being lost forever.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:41 PM   #34
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Re: Trained Freedivers

I have a vest on its way. I can't wait to try it out. Ill post a report when I start using it.
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:05 PM   #35
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Re: Trained Freedivers

Great discussion guys. my 2 pennies below;

No one goes to HALO school (Google it if you need to) in the military right out of boot camp even though the instructors are world class and you would be taught all the safety protocol in the world, because if you don't have the experience behind you to use that safety protocol it doesn't matter.

How is "training" someone to dive to depths that most SCUBA guys are fearful of on a single breath something that is so mainstream? I am not questioning the intentions of any instructor or program, I am just saying that not everyone has the background to react as their training dictates when the sh!t hits the fan and they must respond instinctively.

Freediving a line with a safety diver/s and hitting deeper and deeper depths is cool, not my thing, but cool. Hunting kelp, underwater forests, or the like is a completely different deal altogether and unfortunately when you give someone the keys to going beyond what they would without your input, you are partly liable when that knowledge is used to their own demise.

"Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad"...
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:54 PM   #36
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Re: Trained Freedivers

^. Wow. Well said above.

It seems like myself and others that have called into question the current status quo of the "class" crowd and the "push your limits! Safety class" has been labeled haters and short sighted in our opinions.

But you framed up the reality of the situation quite simply.
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Old 08-07-2013, 12:04 AM   #37
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Re: Trained Freedivers

Thanks, in the end we ALL want this as safe as possible.

I hardly knew Michael but his death hit me like a hammer, diving with him not long before his death and knowing that he believed beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was doing it the right way, and still dying hit me hard. He believed to his bone marrow that he wasn't taking extra risks because he followed "the book" just sucks.

Dive safe guys...
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:20 AM   #38
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Re: Trained Freedivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearclaw View Post
Thanks, in the end we ALL want this as safe as possible.

I hardly knew Michael but his death hit me like a hammer, diving with him not long before his death and knowing that he believed beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was doing it the right way, and still dying hit me hard. He believed to his bone marrow that he wasn't taking extra risks because he followed "the book" just sucks.

Dive safe guys...
Didn't his dive buddy report that he continued to dive solo after his buddy went to the boat?
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:46 AM   #39
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Re: Trained Freedivers

They were both "diving solo" the whole day if vis was zero.
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Old 08-07-2013, 12:59 PM   #40
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Re: Trained Freedivers

Not only does it sound like OC continued to dive solo after his partner left, but 14 lbs of lead, in freshwater, in August is absolutely incomprehensible to me. I'm one of those 'unsafe' trained freedivers. When I took the PFI class this Spring (for the 2nd time), they weighted me with zero lead in the pool to be properly weighted, and that's with a full 3mm hooded top on and 1.5 mm high-waist bottoms. In the ocean, I was only allowed to wear 3 lbs to be properly weighted by their standards. My class (15-20 divers) dropped over a hundred lbs of lead on the side of the pool once PFI was done checking everybody's buoyancy. There are plenty of aspects of the class concerning safety that are very important for newbies to learn, that have nothing to do with increasing bottom time or depth.

If you're gonna be a freediver you better get used to people dying. I've long lost count of all those who have passed during my 15 year participation in the sport. I've also been in 2 tournaments where people died. One was a friend and dive partner of mine and the other was a long time acquaintance. I can tell you one thing, if you die in a tournament, everybody's still going to weigh in their fish, even as they bring your body to shore for ID.

Scott
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:58 PM   #41
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Re: Trained Freedivers

14 pounds in fresh water sound definitely out of order..... even with a 7 mm suit...
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Old 08-07-2013, 04:30 PM   #42
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Re: Trained Freedivers

I just finished my FII L1 class - had on a 5mm suit and needed 12 lbs to be neutral at 30 feet. Some suits and people are more buoyant than others. My instructor scoffed when I said I needed more weight, until he checked it for himself.
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Old 08-07-2013, 04:42 PM   #43
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Re: Trained Freedivers

Hrmmm this thread has me wondering. I am 160 lbs 5'8" when diving Freshwater in a 5mm one piece I go between 10-12 lbs of lead depending on how fat I am that day. I am positive on the top down to about 12'-15' before I neutral out. Would this be considered over weight?
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Old 08-07-2013, 04:49 PM   #44
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Re: Trained Freedivers

The FII guidelines say you should be neutrally buoyant at 30 feet. The reasoning is that almost all blackouts occur in 30 feet or less, and if you are buoyant in that zone, well at least your body will be found even if you are not saved by a buddy.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:17 PM   #45
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Re: Trained Freedivers

Fii standard is between 20-33 feet for level 1 students. Most blackouts happen at the surface or shortly before reaching the surface. The problem with being neutral at 15 feet is that, when you black out, you exhale your air, losing your buoyancy and therefore sink.
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