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Old 05-15-2019, 12:42 PM   #136
Behslayer
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Hi Kodama, Yeah I had a few of these mechs here from a while back. Though I think it worked out because you can sink the back screw deep into the handle. Really that back screw is the strength and the front end buttresses up to the square.
Gecko, you are right. My mistake. I use Micro Balloons as a Fairing compound for non structural shaping. What I used here was actually Microfibers.
I'll get around to ordering some CF tape etc and making the whole thing nice and reinforced with Long Fiber.
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:18 PM   #137
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

So, my friend tried out a few shots and said it was very smooth. Now I'll reinforce.

Does anyone out there have an opinion on whether regular Fiberglass cloth in a G-Flex Resin would be a suitable reinforcement? I have some on hand and would need to order CF.
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Old 08-24-2020, 03:22 PM   #138
JJohansen
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Hey everyone,

I just picked up a pathos 130 with the D1 handle and ermes DR mech. I’m concerned about how much the shaft rises up out of the track under load. My best guess is that the shaft is ridding up the rear roller until it contacts the top of the mechanism housing. Under load I have a healthy 3mm gap between the bottom of the shaft and the track. I’ve not tested the gun yet, but I wouldn’t be happy with this in any of my self made guns. Anyone else notice this?
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Old 08-25-2020, 01:58 AM   #139
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Can you post pictures of how you installed this trigger? There are two inner lips that need to be filed on the inside of the handle where the trigger sear is to allow for proper seating of the mech, otherwise the front metal spacer on the mech will be higher than the track. I have done a video of how to do this mod but really did not have any time to post it. Send me your email in private message and I will send you all the pics that will make sure you do the mod correctly.
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Old 08-25-2020, 12:37 PM   #140
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Thanks Majid. I bought the gun from the dealer with the modifications done, but seems like a simple fix. It's interesting how the mechanism is held in place by only the rear pin. I'm sure it is plenty strong, but still, I'm slightly uneasy with it. There also seems to be a good amount of flex between the handel and the barrel. Obviously this hasn't proved to be an issue, but still, not ideal.
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Old 08-25-2020, 01:56 PM   #141
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Quick note: Majid’s fix totally resolved issue.
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Old 08-26-2020, 12:05 AM   #142
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Originally Posted by JJohansen View Post
Thanks Majid. I bought the gun from the dealer with the modifications done, but seems like a simple fix. It's interesting how the mechanism is held in place by only the rear pin. I'm sure it is plenty strong, but still, I'm slightly uneasy with it. There also seems to be a good amount of flex between the handel and the barrel. Obviously this hasn't proved to be an issue, but still, not ideal.
What actually holds the trigger in the handle is the slanted front end which wedges the trigger. The back pin only has to hold the mech in place and the actually pressure is on the pivoting motion up ... so is no problem. You are absolutely correct about flex between the handle and pipe ... that is a problem with all pipe guns. There will always be some play as there is an O ring between the pipe and the handle which has a little tolerance. For a 130 gun I can see how this can be a problem and what I do is I remove the handle off and then file off the little dimples right after the O ring (keep O ring instact) then I replace the dimple thickness with two or 3 layers of CF tape and let it set. This stiffens up the area quite a bit as it reduces the tolerance between the handle and pipe. The handle front of the pipe is also hollow ... you can again make a wood dowl that can go in and put a sleeve on the wood dowel and that also stiffens things more. My real concern with the D1 handle is how incredibly poorly designed the loading butt is ... it really is very fragile and that is where I would be concerned. If you have a chest made out of the hard stuff the South African guys are made off, then you can simply remove it and do without it. But if you have a chest that can bruise like me ... I recommend you reinforce that loading pad with CF ... if that thing breaks ... your family jewels are in danger! I have seen several of those pads that have broken ... so I take no chances and always CF reinforce it.
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Old 08-26-2020, 12:59 AM   #143
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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What actually holds the trigger in the handle is the slanted front end which wedges the trigger. The back pin only has to hold the mech in place and the actually pressure is on the pivoting motion up ... so is no problem. You are absolutely correct about flex between the handle and pipe ... that is a problem with all pipe guns. There will always be some play as there is an O ring between the pipe and the handle which has a little tolerance. For a 130 gun I can see how this can be a problem and what I do is I remove the handle off and then file off the little dimples right after the O ring (keep O ring instact) then I replace the dimple thickness with two or 3 layers of CF tape and let it set. This stiffens up the area quite a bit as it reduces the tolerance between the handle and pipe. The handle front of the pipe is also hollow ... you can again make a wood dowl that can go in and put a sleeve on the wood dowel and that also stiffens things more. My real concern with the D1 handle is how incredibly poorly designed the loading butt is ... it really is very fragile and that is where I would be concerned. If you have a chest made out of the hard stuff the South African guys are made off, then you can simply remove it and do without it. But if you have a chest that can bruise like me ... I recommend you reinforce that loading pad with CF ... if that thing breaks ... your family jewels are in danger! I have seen several of those pads that have broken ... so I take no chances and always CF reinforce it.

Well, I'm glad that I'm not the only one that sees this as an issue! I had a look at my Rob Allen 140, there does not appear to be any flex between the handle and the barrel. The main difference being the RA handle has both a male insert and a female sleeve that seems to greatly strengthen the connection. I like your recommendation regarding the CF tape and wooden dowel, I'll give it a go.
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Old 10-20-2020, 03:19 AM   #144
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Hi Majid, I was following this thread with great interest as I plan to mod the Pathos D'Angelo 3 handle on my R-115. In your earlier post from 2019, you mentioned D2 DR is still "work in progress". Have you noticed any changes in the project recently or Covid put everything on hold? Browsing for Ermes D2, I noticed there are several variants of the trigger:
https://www.spearfishingproducts.com...thos-dangelo-2

http://ermessea.com/negozio/phatos-dangelo-2-3/

end even this one!
http://www.spearfishing.de/product_i...-Angelo-2.html

Which one do you recommend? or should I go for the http://ermessea.com/negozio/double-roll-wings-2/ as I will be carbon wrapping the handle and the barrel anyway?

Cheers and keep safe.
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Old 10-22-2020, 02:03 AM   #145
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Originally Posted by vamforce View Post
Hi Majid, I was following this thread with great interest as I plan to mod the Pathos D'Angelo 3 handle on my R-115. In your earlier post from 2019, you mentioned D2 DR is still "work in progress". Have you noticed any changes in the project recently or Covid put everything on hold? Browsing for Ermes D2, I noticed there are several variants of the trigger:
https://www.spearfishingproducts.com...thos-dangelo-2

http://ermessea.com/negozio/phatos-dangelo-2-3/

end even this one!
http://www.spearfishing.de/product_i...-Angelo-2.html

Which one do you recommend? or should I go for the http://ermessea.com/negozio/double-roll-wings-2/ as I will be carbon wrapping the handle and the barrel anyway?

Cheers and keep safe.
Oh ... the double roller trigger for D2 ... that was a nightmare working on that trigger. I gave up on it a while back ... just not worth the effort. I spent a ton of money trying to get it to work reliably, but it really is just not worth the effort. There was a batch of about 100 triggers that had CNC machined sears ... those had 4mm front rollers and would be the minimum I would accept. Problem was that they had to have a 6.7 mm shaft sear ... which left only about a .3mm tolerance for things to work well. Unfortunately the boxes never came with the tolerances required and it would take me hours to get one trigger to work well. Also the tolerances of the Pathos handle were horrible ... so big problems. I do have several perfectly working triggers on the D2 ... but again I doubt anyone will be able to get those to work without knowing what to fix and having a good super accurate milling machine and customized pins that can fix the tolerances. Mario did tell me he made a new batch that worked well using thinner 6mm sears rather than 6.7mm sears ... these would allow for the tolerances in the box and handle ... but at the cost of a much smaller roller. That is a non starter for me and totally not interested. If you do have a Pathos Dangelo 1 handle though ... the DR trigger for the D1 is absolutely perfect. It has a full 10mm sear and 6mm roller. The D1 has a much wider plastic trigger which allows a full 10mm sear mod.

For the D2 however, much better is just get a full DR long trigger and the mod to any Pathos gun is very simple and very quick. Just open up the mech box cavity on the handle to 15mm and little bit of epoxy putty molding ... then a Carbon Fiber cover and you are good to go. You now have the best trigger on earth with a full 10mm sear and a 6mm roller ... no compromises. Plus you have the ability to finely tune your mech height to whatever shaft you decide to use.

By the way the new DR trigger is a huge upgrade to the original DR trigger. There was a huge investment in tooling to get the trigger tolerances improved by a factor of more than 10x . It is much stronger and much smoother and everything from trigger pull to line release action to fit is better.
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Old 10-22-2020, 06:04 PM   #146
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post

For the D2 however, much better is just get a full DR long trigger and the mod to any Pathos gun is very simple and very quick. Just open up the mech box cavity on the handle to 15mm and little bit of epoxy putty molding ... then a Carbon Fiber cover and you are good to go. You now have the best trigger on earth with a full 10mm sear and a 6mm roller ... no compromises. Plus you have the ability to finely tune your mech height to whatever shaft you decide to use.

By the way the new DR trigger is a huge upgrade to the original DR trigger. There was a huge investment in tooling to get the trigger tolerances improved by a factor of more than 10x . It is much stronger and much smoother and everything from trigger pull to line release action to fit is better.
Great, Thanks, as usual, Is this one you recommend? http://ermessea.com/negozio/double-roll-wings-2/
Cheers
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Old 10-25-2020, 08:27 AM   #147
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Exclamation Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Yes that’s the one. With the short version I can’t get the same superb accuracy for some reason and since the long version gives a little more free band stretch anyhow I haven’t really gone into the trouble of finding out why the short version doesn’t give same results.
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Old 03-03-2021, 06:27 PM   #148
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

Just an update, I can safely say that the drop in DR trigger that I have in my D1 handle is a piece of crap. Extremely heavy trigger pull and unpredictable breaks. I'm going to try a full DR trigger modification now. I should have stayed with my rob allens.
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Old 03-03-2021, 11:59 PM   #149
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Just an update, I can safely say that the drop in DR trigger that I have in my D1 handle is a piece of crap. Extremely heavy trigger pull and unpredictable breaks. I'm going to try a full DR trigger modification now. I should have stayed with my rob allens.

Another update; the one I have in my D1 handle has a very smooth pull but it does sit a tiny bit proud. At some point I’ll pull it out and see if I didn’t take enough handle material off or whether it’s a manufacturing (tolerance) issue but since the gun shoots great as is, I’m not in a hurry.


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Old 03-04-2021, 01:08 AM   #150
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Re: Double Roller Trigger for Pathos handle, Ermes Sub

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Originally Posted by JJohansen View Post
Just an update, I can safely say that the drop in DR trigger that I have in my D1 handle is a piece of crap. Extremely heavy trigger pull and unpredictable breaks. I'm going to try a full DR trigger modification now. I should have stayed with my rob allens.
Don't give up on it, maybe it is some little thing. It is possible that it is just not put together properly as there have been some poorly assembled triggers a while back. Functionally the D1 trigger should work the same as a full DR trigger, except for a shorter line release. Of course I would much rather have a full DR trigger and the latest generation triggers coming out are a huge improvement over even the very good 2n generation triggers. But the mod to a full DR trigger on a D1 is quite a lot of work and really the D1 is 95% as good functionally. If you can take pictures and send me a detailed description of the problem I am pretty sure I can get it working as good as a full DR trigger. Worth a try before heading the full DR trigger mod route.

On another note, for anyone who got a D2 handle DR trigger, I have finally figured out the problems. That trigger I definitely don't recommend as the tolerances required are way too high for the manufacturing system used. During lockdown I figured out the problem ... one side of the box has a pin hole that is slightly lower than the second opposing side and with a milling machine it is possible to fix by just making a hole on the other side a little higher and a little larger. That way the pin sits horizontal and the shaft sear drops center instead of hitting the walls. Of course you would also need to make a slightly larger pin to accommodate the larger diameter. I know that some people did end up getting that trigger ... if you did and are having problems with it I can probably help you fix it.
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