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Old 04-21-2014, 08:23 PM   #1
Ron S
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Savage rifle frustration!

I just purchased a new Savage model 111 FCNS. It's got their accutrigger and accustock, and is chambered in 30-06.
Not a bad rifle overall but...
I was cleaning up the rifle and checking it's function. I loaded 4 rounds into the detachable magazine and with the safety in the proper position, I tried cycling the rounds. First three fed and ejected fine, but the last round in the mag jammed. This happened each time I tried, with both factory ammo and reloads.

Second issue is that the distance from the front scope mounting holes to the back measures 6". It's a really long action. As a result, I won't be able to use two piece bases to mount my chosen scope. I found a steel rail made by Warne online that'll work, but it's pricey.

So...I e-mailed Savage last week and explained in detail the jamming problem. Hadn't gotten a reply yet, but got online this morning and added a question regarding the compatibility of the Warne base to my original question.

I just got an online reply from Savage. They addressed my question regarding the scope base by basically saying they can't give me an answer and to contact the base manufacurer. The did not address the real problem, which is the fact that my brand new rifle jams, and called my question "solved"!!!

I re-opened my question and basically said the scope mounting issue is secondary to the fact that I can't use the rifle because it jams. Hopefully they just didn't read the main part of my question the first time.

Anybody else have jamming issues with Savage centerfire bolt guns with detachable mags?

I'm starting to think I made a purchasing mistake here...

Thanks,
Ron.
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:28 PM   #2
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Re: Savage rifle frustration!

Don't blame you for your frustration. Seems illogical that a popular gun should have such problems. Also....6 inches between sights?? Seemingly a much better use could come from a rifle.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:08 PM   #3
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Re: Savage rifle frustration!

Shoulda boughta Kimber instead of the Ugly Stick of rifles.

But I know a lot of shooters swear by their Savage rifles. It's too bad the customer service was so awful. Everybody makes mistakes, but it goes a long ways toward making things right when service helps. Sounds to me a like a simple issue with the mag. Lips may just need bent or filed with the right touch, but Savage should be happy to replace it for you. I don't really know anything about that rifle.

But seriously. A Savage?

Last edited by mepps1; 04-21-2014 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:24 PM   #4
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Re: Savage rifle frustration!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron S View Post
I just purchased a new Savage model 111 FCNS. It's got their accutrigger and accustock, and is chambered in 30-06.
Not a bad rifle overall but...
I was cleaning up the rifle and checking it's function. I loaded 4 rounds into the detachable magazine and with the safety in the proper position, I tried cycling the rounds. First three fed and ejected fine, but the last round in the mag jammed. This happened each time I tried, with both factory ammo and reloads.

Second issue is that the distance from the front scope mounting holes to the back measures 6". It's a really long action. As a result, I won't be able to use two piece bases to mount my chosen scope. I found a steel rail made by Warne online that'll work, but it's pricey.

So...I e-mailed Savage last week and explained in detail the jamming problem. Hadn't gotten a reply yet, but got online this morning and added a question regarding the compatibility of the Warne base to my original question.

I just got an online reply from Savage. They addressed my question regarding the scope base by basically saying they can't give me an answer and to contact the base manufacurer. The did not address the real problem, which is the fact that my brand new rifle jams, and called my question "solved"!!!

I re-opened my question and basically said the scope mounting issue is secondary to the fact that I can't use the rifle because it jams. Hopefully they just didn't read the main part of my question the first time.

Anybody else have jamming issues with Savage centerfire bolt guns with detachable mags?

I'm starting to think I made a purchasing mistake here...

Thanks,
Ron.
check the feed lips on the mag and make sure they aren't too open or closed , is the cartridge jamming low or high . the cartridge should present at a sightly up angled position .

if you are in the market for a riffle again ,tikka
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:57 PM   #5
Ron S
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Re: Savage rifle frustration!

This is actually my second Savage rifle. The first is a .22 bolt gun that's the most accurate thing I've ever shot. I had an issue with that gun that I wasn't even sure was a gun problem and not an ammo problem. Long story short, I contacted Savage, they paid shipping both ways, and did an outstanding job of taking care of the problem. That's a big part of why I bought another Savage gun. That, and the problems I've had with Weatherby, but that's a whole 'nother story...
Anyway, what this '06 is doing, is the first three rounds in the mag feed fine. The last round in the mag angles up, and then just before the rim clears the feed lips, the case rim drops below the bolt face so that the bolt rides over the case, which is now at about a 30 degree upward angle, and the bolt jams the round at that angle.
I've tried a couple different types of ammo, removed and replaced the mag, cycled the bolt slowly and fast, and it still jams about 95% of the time. The only way I can reliably feed the last round is to slowly close the bolt until the round clears the magazine lips, back the bolt off around 1/4", and then close the bolt.
Oddly, the person that neglected to answer my question is the same person that provided such outstanding service on my .22. I'm hoping that somehow my main question got overlooked, or somehow their answer didn't make into their reply e-mail.
Just a might frustrating...
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:03 AM   #6
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Re: Savage rifle frustration!

Does your Savage have the staggered round feed, or the single round feed?

A single round feed type will center and isolate the top round between both feed lips, the staggered will have one feed lip contact the rounds (alternating).

The issue might just be a weak follower spring.



As to the mounting issue, this is not isolated to the Savage long action. Optics from 20+ years ago had long sections of tube fore/aft of the turret body (center section on the scope) and mounting to long action rifles was no problem with 2 piece mounts.

Modern optics typically have shorter sections fore/aft of the turret body, and this can create an issue.

Some 2 piece mounts like the Talley will have the rings spaced as close together as the action will allow, but even this won't work with "compact" scopes on the Savage long action. The Winchester M70 long action has the same issue.

Your best course of action is to install a one piece base such as the EGW etc. and run compatible rings. With even the lowest rings out there, you should clear up to a 56mm objective no problem.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:25 AM   #7
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Re: Savage rifle frustration!

[quote=Superfrog;1944232]Does your Savage have the staggered round feed, or the single round feed?

Thanks for the advice!
The magazine is the single round feed type. I'm hoping it's indeed just a magazine issue, but I want to hear from Savage as to what they want me to do.

As to the scope mounting issue, it's not a huge concern for me. Measuring the distance from the center of the front mounting holes to the center of the rear mounting holes, it's about 6". the max mounting space on my Redfield scope is 5.5". I could use the Warne extended front base and just barely make it, but then there'd be no room for adjustment.
I went to Cabelas and looked at the same rifle, (minus the accustock), in a package, complete with scope. The difference is that they use a different, longer scope, that just barely fits, again with no room for adjustment.
My plan, if I get this rifle fixed, is to use the Warne, steel picatinny rail, along with the Leupold PRW steel rings. Alot costlier than I'd planned, and more cluttered, but should be plenty solid with room for adjustment.
Ron.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:29 AM   #8
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Re: Savage rifle frustration!

Stretch out the spring in the magazine. It may not have enough pressure to push the last round up. I had this problem with my stiller predator action and it was because I had the wrong follower. I had the proper magazine box from Wyatt but the wrong follower. Call Wyatt mag boxes and they will make it right.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:43 AM   #9
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Re: Savage rifle frustration!

The single round feed is typically the easier setup to remedy.

The first quick check would be to load one round, then depress it slowly a quarter inch or so downward and let go. If it comes up slowly, or the rear doesn't come all the way up it could very well be a follower issue.

If the magazine utilizes a flat spring (Z shaped) the last bend should typically beneath the rear of the round with the "tail" facing the bullet end of the round.
Sometimes a backwards follower spring will cause what you describe.

Ideally, the bottom of the bolt body should go between the 2 magazine lips with minimal clearance, this maximizes the contact with the case head (rear of the round) and the bolt face. If the magazine sits too low, and the round doesn't come all the way up, the bolt face will "skip" over the round and you get that classic feed malfunction you describe.

Try it again, but this time pull the bolt smartly to the rear to full stop and see if this jars the last round to come all the way up. A well designed and functioning mag should not be dependent on any such action, but this could be another indication of a follower issue.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:14 AM   #10
Ron S
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Re: Savage rifle frustration!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfrog View Post
If the magazine sits too low, and the round doesn't come all the way up, the bolt face will "skip" over the round and you get that classic feed malfunction you describe.

Try it again, but this time pull the bolt smartly to the rear to full stop and see if this jars the last round to come all the way up. A well designed and functioning mag should not be dependent on any such action, but this could be another indication of a follower issue.
I've seen the type of feeding issue you're talking about and know what it would look like, but this isn't quite the same. I'll try and explain...
The last round in the magazine actually (appears) to sit just as high as the rest of the rounds, and when the bottom of the bolt face moves foreward, it does indeed catch the back of the round, just like it does the previous rounds. It also pushes the round foreward just like the others, but then just as the rim of the round is clearing the magazine lips, the bolt rides over the top of the casing. This causes the back of the round to be pushed downward and the bullet nose goes too high to enter the chamber, so the bolt face comes foreward and jams against the shell casing about 1/2" foreward of the case rim.
The other thing is that there seems to be plenty of spring tension on the follower, and yet the follower moves smoothly up and down within the magazine.
I though of stretching the magazine spring, but the magazine appears to be riveted together so that it can't be disassembled easily.
At $50 per magazine, I'm not inclined to mess with this one, especially since it's brand new and under warranty.
One thing I thought of; I removed the stock in order to clean up the packing lube and put a light coat of oil on the barrel and bottom of the action. When I put it back together I followed the directions, including the order in which the stock screws were to be tightened and to the proper torque, but I'm wondering if things didn't go back together exactly right. Maybe I didn't get the mag well seated completely in the bottom metal, causing the magazine to not seat all the way up?
Something to check during the morning coffee...
Ron.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:28 AM   #11
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Re: Savage rifle frustration!

Definitely double check the assembly.

By the description, this sounds like a classic mag issue though. But................sitting too low compounded with the last round/minimim spring pressure/follower design would also do this.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:33 AM   #12
Ron S
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Re: Savage rifle frustration!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfrog View Post
Definitely double check the assembly.

By the description, this sounds like a classic mag issue though. But................sitting too low compounded with the last round/minimim spring pressure/follower design would also do this.
Does indeed sound like a mag issue, but since I did pull the gun apart and put it back together, there's a strong possibility it's a faulty owner issue too!
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:45 AM   #13
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Re: Savage rifle frustration!

Many gun manufacturers don't build their own mags and end up using low bid suppliers. The mag normally doesn't get tested with the gun and you end up with what you have...... a very common problem caused by manufacturers who are saving a few pennies and exposing their business to problems like this put up for everyone to see.

Most all gunmakers are subject to such issues regardless of price or implied quality. I own both Savage and Kimber weapons and multitude of other manufactures. Some have been flawless while others, not so much. I will say one of my Kimbers has gone on quite a few vacations to New York for service. Good luck with your issue. I'm sure they will take care of you on the back end and get you a new mag that doen't need "tweaking".
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:37 AM   #14
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Re: Savage rifle frustration!

Well, Savage came through with the kind of service that caused me to buy a second Savage rifle. I got an e-mail this morning saying that it could be a magazine issue. They offered to send me another magazine to try, or if I wanted, they'd send me a UPS label and I could just send them the gun.
I asked them to send me a magazine to try first, as from what most folks say, that's the most likely culprit.
You just can't ask for better customer service than that! I have to assume that my initial question just got overlooked in the e-mail process.
Thanks for all the advice guys!
Ron.
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