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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 11-26-2018, 11:44 PM   #1
popgun pete
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Tailliez Speargun (Elastic Band Powered) 1938

A French patent by Philippe Tailliez shows a design that he applied for in December 1938, but it was not published until 1940, which of course would have been in wartime France. It is one of the earliest that I have found for rubber powered guns and is contemporaneous with the Le Prieur speargun of the same year. Tailliez was a member of the famous "Bandol Trio" with Jacques Cousteau and Frederic Dumas. Before they got into developing and testing their Aqualung demand regulator they were all keen spearfishermen. The patent is in French, but here is the gist of it.

The hook 29, axle 30 and trigger bar 28 all form one piece which can be lifted out of the metal supports 4 (two parallel plates) through the opening shown to the upper rear. The gun uses "motor elastics" for rubbers 6 which appear to be of square section. They are trapped at the front by a muzzle plate 7 secured by the wing nut 19 which screws onto an embedded thread piece 17. The front of the barrel is slightly curved where the rubbers run to allow them to wrap around without being cut. The "wishbone" is a leather part 23 riveted around the two rubber bands by formed loops 24. The leather band in turn passes through a rectangular hole 26 in metal plate (figure eight shaped) piece 25 with a round hole for the hook at 27. The gun is loaded by detaching the trigger bar and hook assembly and engaging it in the "figure eight" plate while the other hand holds the gun at rear handle 2. When pulling the rubber bands up a foot is placed behind the front handle 3 to brace the gun. The rubber are drawn up so that plate 25 passes below the right angled tips of metal fingers 13 located on either side of the barrel, and then the trigger hook assembly is reseated in its rear mounted supports. The spear is loaded with the spear tail being trapped in the fold of the leather band due to the tension provided by the two rubber bands, in fact that is why he uses two bands. The spear, a plain metal shaft with a simple point, is held at the front by the lyre shaped clip 22 to prevent it dropping out of the open muzzle slot 21. Squeezing trigger bar 28 down rotates hook 29 up until the fingers 13 catch the metal plate 25 and drag it off the hook, which then allows the rubber bands to pull both it and the spear rapidly forwards. The gun is basically similar to a slingshot in its operation. Tailliez says a spearline can be attached, but does not show one in his drawings. Similarly the text mentions another lyre shaped clip to retain trigger bar 28 to handle 2 after firing, otherwise the assembly could fall out, but it is not shown. An interesting early design and probably actually used by Tailliez, unlike some other early patents which look to be designed by land lubbers as they often would not work and would be impractical to manufacture anyway.

I imagine that there are one or two of Tailliez's guns in a museum somewhere. Modern readers need to remember that spearguns for underwater fishing had only existed since 1937 and back in those days spearguns were an exotic concept given that divers hunting underwater with mechanical weapons had previously been confined to the pages of science fiction, namely the gun toting submariners of the 'Nautilus" and the 1933 "Nautilus" gun of Commander Le Prieur, which being somewhat too powerful, blew most fish apart!
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Old 11-27-2018, 11:40 AM   #2
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Re: Tailliez Speargun (Elastic Band Powered) 1938

I have a home-made speargun from Palau that has a primitive release mechanism similar to that only the single band and lever that acts a trigger both hook on to the shaft. That Tailliez reminds me of a slingshot a little bit.
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Old 11-27-2018, 10:03 PM   #3
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Re: Tailliez Speargun (Elastic Band Powered) 1938

The most intriguing aspect is the detachable trigger hook assembly is wielded rather like a stevedore's hook for moving bales/hessian sack bundles and is used to drag the twin band system back to cock the gun, only then do you actually insert the spear. As there is no specially formulated band rubber available in those very early years then other stretchy and not so stretchy rubber products for other purposes had to be pressed into service. From Taillez’s description it is clear that he recognized that loading the gun was important as well as the shooting of it if you wanted some power out of the gun.
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:40 AM   #4
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Re: Tailliez Speargun (Elastic Band Powered) 1938

A must see, almost compulsory viewing, is this film by Jacques Cousteau. It is the earliest ever spearfishing film. I had heard of it previously, but until I found it today I had never seen it. The spearfisherman is “Didi” or Frederic Dumas whom the museum is named after that I referred to as having an “Ojard Chillet” pneumatic speargun, probably the very first pneumatic gun anywhere. The film was an absolute sensation in its time and in my view it still is today.

Jacques-Yves Cousteau – “By 18 meters of Depth” (1942) or “Par 18 mètres de Fond”.
https://vimeo.com/72055098
or on “YouTube”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlTyUagouCM

Dumas is shown swimming around shooting lots of fish with a timber band gun that has the spear placed in it after cocking the bands, same idea as Tailliez's 1938 band gun, but more modern looking as this is four years further on. You see him arming the gun early in the film before he slips into the water and sets off on the hunt.

"Didi" (Dumas) drags out some pretty big fish over the course of the film, I was amazed, but of course he is the first spearfisherman that they will have encountered in those pristine waters and big fish are swimming up to investigate this intruder in their domain. Then zip and they are skewered, great underwater filmography at the very dawn of the sport.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 11-30-2018 at 06:46 PM. Reason: Put "Didi" in quotes, posted still from film
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Old 11-30-2018, 07:03 PM   #5
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Re: Tailliez Speargun (Elastic Band Powered) 1938

The 1942 "Par 18 metres de Fond" film by Jacques-Yves Cousteau was mentioned in a number of diving related books of the fifties and sixties era, but to see it is something else as modern technology makes accessible what was once beyond most people's reach. This reminds us that early freedivers were all spearfishermen, something that some diving history buffs prefer to ignore, but in doing so they neglect a huge slice of the sport.

https://archive.org/details/62154Jac...au18MetersDeep

Made in 1942 during the German occupation of France, PAR 18 METRES DE FOND or 18 METERS DEEP is a pioneering film shot partially under water by Jacques-Yves Cousteau and Philippe Talliez. It was directed by Frederic Dumas who met the pair in 1937. The film was shot in 1941, and its production did not benefit from the SCUBA breathing system that Cousteau would develop and use later in his career. To shoot the underwater scenes a special depth-pressure-proof camera case developed by mechanical engineer Léon Vèche (engineer of Arts and Métiers and the Naval College) was utilized. The film shows underwater fishing in the Mediterranean Sea and was one of the films to first reveal to the public life underwater. At the time it was made, the four men involved in the production -- Cousteau, Veche, Dumas and Talliez, pooled their money together to make the film a reality. One can only imagine how difficult it was given wartime restrictions on movement and the scarcity of film stock, etc. during the Occupation. The film premiered on April 12, 1943 at the Palais de Chaillot , before the Vichy government officials and officers of the Kommandantur.


Might I suggest making a modest donation to the archive for keeping this info alive.
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Old 12-01-2018, 03:23 PM   #6
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Re: Tailliez Speargun (Elastic Band Powered) 1938

Here is where the "Par 18 Metres de Fond" film was shot.

https://museedumas.wordpress.com/vis...rs-les-plages/

More info on the film here: http://museedumas.fr/f/p18/
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Old 12-01-2018, 04:51 PM   #7
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Re: Tailliez Speargun (Elastic Band Powered) 1938

This is the three handle timber band gun used in the 1942 film "Par 18 metres de Fond" by Frederic Dumas. As with the Tailliez band gun the forward handle is to brace the gun with the leg while drawing the bands back to cock the gun in the water. The gun therefore has no cocking stock as you don’t hip or chest load it. Most of the front handle is now missing as only the remains of the handle bracing are still in place. The second timber gun shown here has more of its third "leg loading brace" handle frame and is also a vintage speargun most likely made by Dumas.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 12-01-2018 at 07:09 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 12-01-2018, 10:52 PM   #8
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Re: Tailliez Speargun (Elastic Band Powered) 1938

This photo shows Jacques Cousteau's own speargun when the "Bandol Trio" (Cousteau, Dumas and Tailliez) were spearfishing in that area of the Mediterranean coast. http://museedumas.fr/o/req_objets.php
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:38 PM   #9
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Re: Tailliez Speargun (Elastic Band Powered) 1938

The double band layout on this contemporary speargun suggests that it was influenced by Tailliez's band system as can be seen in the inset diagram. Given the rapid rate of evolution this may actually be one of his guns.
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Old 12-04-2018, 03:02 PM   #10
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Re: Tailliez Speargun (Elastic Band Powered) 1938

Most I think would agree that the sense of adventure in entering and hunting under the sea was propelled to a certain degree by the speculative fiction of Jules Verne where in the author’s imagination men bear arms in the submarine environment. This feat of imagination became reality when men were seen moving underwater and shooting rifles of the “latest pattern” in the depths of the ocean.
https://youtu.be/QsrXuyjci7U

The men who made the 1916 silent film of "Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Sea" were pushing the boundaries of technology in filming underwater and were also true pioneers of the underwater world. You can read of their heroic exploits here.
http://isdhf.com/eventsoffers/scubad...illiamson.aspx
http://www.therebreathersite.nl/12_A...Williamson.htm
https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9615/sea.html
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Old 12-12-2018, 04:49 AM   #11
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Re: Tailliez Speargun (Elastic Band Powered) 1938

At about the same time in the USA Jack Prodanovich, Wally Potts and Glen Orr were founding the "San Diego Bottom Scratchers" and devising their own spearguns, all guns being built from scratch. This where modern spearfishing began using rubber band powered guns. Previously the spring gun ruled with many variations on a theme, but all were sinkers both before and after the shot and in two decades were practically gone from the speargun arsenal.

The attached photo shows Jack Prodanovich's first ever gun, yet it contains all the features of a modern band gun without Jack knowing what such a gun would look like in 1941.
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Old 12-18-2018, 04:18 PM   #12
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Re: Tailliez Speargun (Elastic Band Powered) 1938

I just found out that Hans Hass had shot an even earlier film about underwater hunting, but may be with a pole spear rather than a speargun. The film is part of a compilation dvd of his work, in fact I have just ordered it from https://www.bookdepository.com…ass-K...-Edition-2-DVD
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Old 12-31-2018, 03:15 PM   #13
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Re: Tailliez Speargun (Elastic Band Powered) 1938

The Hans Hass film is earlier, but the hunter is using a polespear rather than a speargun. Some stills from the film "Underwater Stalking". Film shot in 1940, first released in 1942. On May 8, 1942, the premiere was in the Ufa Theater Tauentzienpalast in Berlin.
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