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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 10-17-2012, 12:53 AM   #1
mishu1984
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Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

while browsing youtube i came accros this video.

the guy stated that:
  • roller guns achieve greater power with a significantly smaller barrel - specifically a roller 100 is the equivalent of a conventional 130
  • roller spearguns are more accurate and have less recoil than convetional spearguns

although the fist claim sounds plausible due to the increased band stretch, it kinda seems far fetched that a single 18mm rubber on a 100 will give the same range and power than a conventional twin 16mm on a 130.

the second claim, to me, sounds more far fetched than anything else.

can a few gun manufacturers chime in? anybody have any experience comparing these two setups?
Roller Gun Interview with Emanual from Spearfishing Downunder - YouTube
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:02 AM   #2
phil herranen
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mishu1984 View Post
while browsing youtube i came accros this video.

the guy stated that:
  • roller guns achieve greater power with a significantly smaller barrel - specifically a roller 100 is the equivalent of a conventional 130
  • roller spearguns are more accurate and have less recoil than convetional spearguns

although the fist claim sounds plausible due to the increased band stretch, it kinda seems far fetched that a single 18mm rubber on a 100 will give the same range and power than a conventional twin 16mm on a 130.

the second claim, to me, sounds more far fetched than anything else.

can a few gun manufacturers chime in? anybody have any experience comparing these two setups?
Roller Gun Interview with Emanual from Spearfishing Downunder - YouTube
they are both true .
#1
a roller has linger band stretch , but the part you are missing is it has a longer power stroke combined with a shorter shaft compared to band stretch . a normal gun only has power for 2/3 of the length of the gun a roller has power for 100% of the gun .

#2
rollers have little or no recoil ,and they tend to be heavy so they are a very stable shooting platform . even thought the shaft gets more power from the band it is still only one band and just wont move the gun .
phil
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:58 AM   #3
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

Plus, the last time I was at Neptonics, Josh had what looked like an awesome roller system for a single band gun. If I were into building roller guns, which I intend to try sooner or later, a system similar to his is what I had in mind.

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Old 10-17-2012, 02:27 AM   #4
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

Roller guns have a lot of power with very little recoil. Basically there are 2 types, single action and multiple action. With a single action it is basically a normal gun with a roller that allows the band to have a much longer stretch around the end and to the bottom of the gun where the end is tied. With a multiple action roller, the same applies but the end is not tied, and you can flip the gun over and stretch the band further to notches made in the stock. I don't believe that the power equates a 100 roller gun to a 130 2x band gun, but there certainly is much more power per given size as you have more band stretch and more importantly much more "working" band stretch.

To be honest, I believe there is still some development where roller guns can become mainstream. But they certainly are a viable design that can revolutionize spearguns once all the kinks are worked out. At the moment Beuchat has a production roller gun and Abellan has one in the works. I expect to see a bunch of production roller guns come online soon.
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Old 10-17-2012, 04:22 PM   #5
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

i've seen phils roller gun at mori's shop. very impressive. much smoother shaft release with the long stretch single band.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:42 PM   #6
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

The old style roller guns used a lever on the bottom, and a short band, basicly what you would normally use on a regular gun, and the band was attached to the lever right about where the rollers are, then you pull the lever back back and the band stretches much farther than you could pull it back. It hooks back by the handle. Those have some power. The reason it has very little back kick and no up kick is, the bands are aligned with the spear, so no up kick, very accurate, and the bottom and top band stretch equals out the force so there is very little kick back. Problem with rollers is they are complicated, and have more parts.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:35 PM   #7
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

When do you guys think we will see a two or three band bluewater roller gun? Some of the larger 4, 5 or even 6 band and 65-70" bluewater guns look more like tree trunks than sleek fish killing machines.

Ultimately the question when it comes to rollerguns is why go to the trouble to make them, what makes them better than a regular gun?

Accuracy and recoil advantages discussed above aside I see one major advantage.
They can pack a lot of power in a smaller size gun. If someone is spearing large fish in low vis, inside caves or wrecks then a roller certainly offers advantages here. On the opposite end of the spectrum a large multi-band bluewater gun for spearing large tuna or something gets cumbersome and loading it is a chore. Again a roller gun could pack an equal or greater amount of power into a smaller more maneuverable speargun.
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Old 10-18-2012, 05:58 AM   #8
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

Two banded (light) bluewater guns have been here for a while. http://alemanni-sub.it/en/.

I am in the testing phase of a 115cm single roller build. It has a 3/4" band, so loading is a bitch. It should have the power of at least 140-160 cm double banded rail gun (I'm not done with the calculations). I may end up with a smaller band or a loading assist that I've been discussing with another builder.

I've said it before, but I think rollers are the only real way the band gun can significantly progress.
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:40 AM   #9
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

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I think rollers are the only real way the band gun can significantly progress.
This or..........hoist spearguns!

http://forums.deeperblue.com/spearo-...spearguns.html
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Old 10-18-2012, 04:56 PM   #10
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

A few other minor things that I like about roller guns:

They get their extra energy from longer band pull, instead of more bands. So the load on the trigger is less than it would be by just adding extra bands, which might sometimes result in a smoother trigger pull.

Requiring fewer bands to get the same power can leave the sight picture along the top of the gun cleaner, without the pile up you sometimes get using more bands.

Like Phil said, they use a shorter shaft (compared to an equally powered standard gun), which may mean you can use a thinner shaft and still not suffer from shaft whip.
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:22 PM   #11
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

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Originally Posted by JimCuda View Post
Two banded (light) bluewater guns have been here for a while. http://alemanni-sub.it/en/.

I am in the testing phase of a 115cm single roller build. It has a 3/4" band, so loading is a bitch. It should have the power of at least 140-160 cm double banded rail gun (I'm not done with the calculations). I may end up with a smaller band or a loading assist that I've been discussing with another builder.

I've said it before, but I think rollers are the only real way the band gun can significantly progress.
That is a nice bluewater gun. I absolutely agree that rollerguns are the wave of the future when it comes to band power and with more individual builders looking to build them the designs will improve and I think we will see a new wave of spearguns.
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:34 PM   #12
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

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Funny you should bring this up! I've been thinking about this sort of design, but I've been treating these as a variation of the roller gun.

At some point, the losses around each roller (4-8% based on minutes of research) start to counteract the benefits. I will look at this design pretty intently, as it's really out of the ordinary.

**edit** I just spent hours looking through your hoist and minor indie speargun thread on DB.
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Last edited by JimCuda; 10-18-2012 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 05-29-2017, 09:41 AM   #13
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

What has not been mentioned is that these guns are more complicated, require user to be very familiar with loading the gun, and require special loading equipment and super technique
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Old 05-29-2017, 12:29 PM   #14
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

I was in the pool yesterday with my good friend Andrea from Italy. He does some of the most amazing spearfishing safaris all over the world and he was nice enough to bring in several C4's and his Alemmani double roller 130 to my home pool. Let's just say that he was absolutely shocked by how poorly the Alemmani he brought compared to the Abellan Albacore and Abellan Denton's ... and even the Pathos Sniper 125 I had modified. I was also quite surprised at how well the C4 Mr. Dark (or something like that) 119cm shot ... very very accurate ... but lacked power IMHO. We will do another test tomorrow ... maybe he won't mind if I can do a full test with the Alemmani (accuracy and flat shooting at different distances). And want to push the C4 Mr. Dark to see if the accuracy will hold at a higher power load. I need to upload the video of Andrea shooting an Albacore 130 from 8 meters and passing the tuna test and seeing his reaction as the shaft pulled his arm after the shaft ran out of line
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Old 05-29-2017, 02:46 PM   #15
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Re: Roller Spearguns - whats the fuss about?

A test with Alemanni vela and C4 would be absolutely cool!

Roller guns are more and more popular in the EU. I find roller guns also easy to handle, once you are familliar with the concept of the gun, it is easy to handle it and load it. (even with the loader). For me, the main reason to use roller gun is the manouverability. The 95 mono roller with kicker band equals 110 2x16mm gun. And when ambushing and stalking, a smaller gun is a big advantage. I dont know how the situation is in blue water fishing.
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