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Old 04-26-2012, 08:56 AM   #1
Ray Odor
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Goliath Jewfish Redux

I recently was asked for my take on the Goliath Jewfish by a UM graduate student for a thesis he was writing. I quite willingly gave him my thoughts. Today I received his “Final Product” in which he included all his findings. Of course, it included many assumptions that “they don’t eat fish”. Following is my reply.

Please don't make this the "Final Product"
Do yourself and the fishing public a favor. Search for and view the TV presentation of "Scuba Nation", filmed off the East coast of Florida. You will see at least 100 Goliath Grouper around the wrecks and rock structures, and, where Grouper and Snapper used to pack the areas, tell me if you spot even one Gag Grouper in the places where Goliath
Predators proliferate. Remember, Goliath have a round tail and Grouper have a straight one.
Any farmer is allowed to shoot predator animals to protect their crops, limited Gator hunting tags are given to protect human and animal life, why aren't we allowed to thin the crop of carnivorous Goliath Grouper to protect our crops. Of course not, we will just make longer closed seasons on our sports fish for the fishermen and tourists.
Maybe they are just protecting the Goliaths food chain. Duuuuh!
Let me know, Ray
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:23 AM   #2
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Well said, Ray.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:29 AM   #3
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Apparently he doesn't know rule #1 of how fish determine what to eat.

If they can fit it in their mouth, they can and will eat it.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:34 AM   #4
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Well said indeed.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:29 AM   #5
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megabeast View Post
Apparently he doesn't know rule #1 of how fish determine what to eat.

If they can fit it in their mouth, they can and will eat it.
Even when they can't quite get it in their mouth

Last edited by jfjf; 04-26-2012 at 04:47 PM. Reason: one nut removed from this thread
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:58 PM   #6
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

I really like you Ray, seriously, even though we often don't agree. In this case I agree with you wholeheartedly that we should thin the herd of the primary predators that target grouper and snapper. That would mean a strict limit on who's licensed to hook and line, trap or spear these animals. You do that and the grouper and snapper populations will rebound. You kill off the goliaths and the snapper and grouper will still be few and far between because the real culprits in the depletion of these stocks on the wrecks have two legs and, oh yeah, a GPS. Take that little cheater tool away and you'd be surprised how many grouper and snapper would re-appear on these target sites. It's no surprise that the grouper and snapper are absent when the primary predator now has the tools to shoot fish in a barrel. I notice that there seem to be lots of redfish, snook, tarpon and such. Why haven't the goliaths cleaned them out? I guess the real reason they're still here couldn't possibly be the near draconian regulations that were put in place to keep the two legged predators from depleting them. Quit pussyfooting around with marginal regs and instead make rules that are truly effective and your grouper and snapper will be there to greet you on every dive.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:11 PM   #7
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Last edited by jfjf; Today at 05:47 PM. Reason: one nut removed from this thread

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Old 04-26-2012, 06:35 PM   #8
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

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Last edited by jfjf; Today at 05:47 PM. Reason: one nut removed from this thread

sshhhhh.. they come in pairs.....
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Old 04-27-2012, 12:09 AM   #9
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

As a P.S., I noticed that when divers first found the airplane wreck off Jupiter they also found hogs and grouper there. Gee, why hadn't the goliaths cleaned them out? After the spearfishing videos were posted here of the first hunters shooting fish on the wreck I dived it and didn't see anything shootable. Hmmmm.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:35 AM   #10
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

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Originally Posted by Biminibill View Post
As a P.S., I noticed that when divers first found the airplane wreck off Jupiter they also found hogs and grouper there. Gee, why hadn't the goliaths cleaned them out? After the spearfishing videos were posted here of the first hunters shooting fish on the wreck I dived it and didn't see anything shootable. Hmmmm.
I don't think we've seen one jewfish on that plane wreck.
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:52 AM   #11
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biminibill View Post
I really like you Ray, seriously, even though we often don't agree. In this case I agree with you wholeheartedly that we should thin the herd of the primary predators that target grouper and snapper. That would mean a strict limit on who's licensed to hook and line, trap or spear these animals. You do that and the grouper and snapper populations will rebound. You kill off the goliaths and the snapper and grouper will still be few and far between because the real culprits in the depletion of these stocks on the wrecks have two legs and, oh yeah, a GPS. Take that little cheater tool away and you'd be surprised how many grouper and snapper would re-appear on these target sites. It's no surprise that the grouper and snapper are absent when the primary predator now has the tools to shoot fish in a barrel. I notice that there seem to be lots of redfish, snook, tarpon and such. Why haven't the goliaths cleaned them out? I guess the real reason they're still here couldn't possibly be the near draconian regulations that were put in place to keep the two legged predators from depleting them. Quit pussyfooting around with marginal regs and instead make rules that are truly effective and your grouper and snapper will be there to greet you on every dive.
Bill, while I agree with you on several points here, I feel that appropriate measures HAVE been put in place to end overfishing from the human end of things. While excessive in some cases I feel we are on the right track to provide a sustainable fishery to all user groups. Where do Jewfish come into play in this..... They don't, and it is political suicide for spearfishermen to even get on that bandwaggon regardless of if the population could withstand a limited harvest.... Which to some small extent I think they could. In either case we need to stay out of the jewfish arena and let the H&L boys work that out.
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Old 04-27-2012, 10:25 AM   #12
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biminibill View Post
As a P.S., I noticed that when divers first found the airplane wreck off Jupiter they also found hogs and grouper there. Gee, why hadn't the goliaths cleaned them out? After the spearfishing videos were posted here of the first hunters shooting fish on the wreck I dived it and didn't see anything shootable. Hmmmm.
Knowing how fish on the east coast migrate down the ledge lines in that area due to food availability and water conditions I am surprised you would pimp such weak sauce as an explanation for lack of fish when you "dived" it last. Your theoretical response to all of this is no better than Ray's assumption that jewfish are the cause of ships disappearing in the Bermuda Triangle.

And just to add my 2 cents: Recently Don and I dove a small wreck that held 3 jewfish and was surrounded by at least 50 gags to 18 lbs along with numerous mangos, grunts and red grouper. How could this be??! I'll tell you how..... proper and effective management has been enacted and enforced. Fish stocks are increasing..... including jewfish. And as soon as the gag season opens up (Twice as long as last year) we should enjoy a great time shooting fish and filling the freezer over here on the Gulf side. Imagine.... maniacal GPS toting spearfishermen coexisting with jewfish on a wreck. I'll make sure to get a video next time I'm there for both of you.
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Old 04-27-2012, 01:43 PM   #13
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Kenny:

Yes, I remember that dive well, but there were more than three jewfish on that small wreck. I counted at least 5 and maybe 6. Also, there were a alot of gags--50 or more. So, this tells me two things: 1.) There are quite a few gags in that area of the gulf--management must be working 2.) The jewfish are not eating them nor are they driving them away from this wreck. The highest concentrations of gags we saw that week was on that one wreck site that also had the highest number of jewfish.

Of course, with the price of fuel who can afford to even go out to get these fish. I think we were the only ones out there that week. Maybe, it is a combination of effective size/bag limits, etc along with high fuel prices that account for all the fish we saw, and very little to do with the presence or absence of jewfish.

Below is a photo I took of two of the jewfish on that wreck.

Don
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:51 PM   #14
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

Geoffrey:

I read over your paper and it looked fine to me. It is difficult to get everyone's thoughts perfect on paper, but I think you captured the jest of it.

It is refreshing to see young folks, like yourself, taking an interest in these issues and compiling data in an unbaised manner.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:14 PM   #15
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux

I have removed my attachment at the request of one of my interviewees. Thanks for the interest.

-Geoffrey

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