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Old 07-18-2012, 04:31 PM   #16
Calif_Diver
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Re: Grandpa foils robbery... concealed carry works!

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Originally Posted by DaveG99 View Post
I guarantee those guys will think abotu this if they ever try to do something like this again. It might be just enough to stop them from doing crimes.
The next crime they will commit is that they will sue the old man,just you watch and see.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:40 AM   #17
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Re: Grandpa foils robbery... concealed carry works!

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Originally Posted by Calif_Diver View Post
The next crime they will commit is that they will sue the old man,just you watch and see.
Under the stand your ground law, I believe that he can't be sued.

BTW, it looks like a kel-tec .380 the guys is using. That's the same pocket piece that I carry.
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:08 AM   #18
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Re: Grandpa foils robbery... concealed carry works!

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Under the stand your ground law, I believe that he can't be sued.

BTW, it looks like a kel-tec .380 the guys is using. That's the same pocket piece that I carry.
I didnt say they will win the suit.Didnt some guy in Florida shoot a kid wearing a hoodie? How is that stand your ground working out for him so far,that was his defense too.
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:21 PM   #19
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Re: Grandpa foils robbery... concealed carry works!

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I didnt say they will win the suit.Didnt some guy in Florida shoot a kid wearing a hoodie? How is that stand your ground working out for him so far,that was his defense too.
Have you seen a suit filed yet? If his defense wins, he will not be able to be sued by the family.
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Old 07-19-2012, 04:18 PM   #20
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Re: Grandpa foils robbery... concealed carry works!

Please don't state the law conclusively. Especially when you are wrong. The old man was not charged. He doesn't not need any defense. There is NO bar to filing a civil suit EVER. As was stated it might be meritorious and he may face costs and fees but you can always file a suit
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Old 07-19-2012, 06:35 PM   #21
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Re: Grandpa foils robbery... concealed carry works!

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A hero for sure. Hopefully he learns his lesson and trades that .380 for something with more stopping power.
That and aim the damn thing... lol.. one handed hip firing isnt the BEST way to hit what your aiming at.
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:53 AM   #22
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Re: Grandpa foils robbery... concealed carry works!

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Have you seen a suit filed yet? If his defense wins, he will not be able to be sued by the family.
I believe in most cases you have one year from the incident in which you can file a lawsuit,give it time. even if the old man is right in what he did by shooting the thugs(which i think he is and i would probably do the same thing)does not mean the thugs can't or won't file a lawsuit,i see you are in the U.S. so i would think by now you would understand people sue for some stupid sh*t in this country,doesn't mean they will win any way but it will cost the old man money,unless he can get a lawyer Pro Bono.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:29 PM   #23
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Re: Grandpa foils robbery... concealed carry works!

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Originally Posted by LunkerBuster View Post
Please don't state the law conclusively. Especially when you are wrong. The old man was not charged. He doesn't not need any defense. There is NO bar to filing a civil suit EVER. As was stated it might be meritorious and he may face costs and fees but you can always file a suit
Before drawing any premature conclusions....ya might want to review the timeline in the Zimmerman case.
Shooting occurred Feb. 26.
Zimmerman charged with MURDER..April 11.
There's PLENTY of time for the race-pimps, looney left media, and some Sue-for-a-percentage ambulance chaser to lynch that old man.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:53 PM   #24
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Re: Grandpa foils robbery... concealed carry works!

Looking at the video again the old man apears to be white. We better investigate this further to make sure it wasnt a hate crime...
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:19 AM   #25
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Re: Grandpa foils robbery... concealed carry works!

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Looking at the video again the old man apears to be white. We better investigate this further to make sure it wasnt a hate crime...
I think he hated having a gun waved around the room by thugs trying to steal shit that isn't theirs .Guess its a hate crime then.
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Old 07-21-2012, 03:55 AM   #26
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Re: Grandpa foils robbery... concealed carry works!

That there is FUNNY..!!!
Thanks for lightening-up this thread.
Long as we're on the "hate-crime" issue....Wonder how many black patrons were in the place ?? Did these two goons choose this place because no blacks were in there...i.e. was part of their motive in selecting this particular place to terrorize a reflection of their racial hatred against whites ??
Soooo...what we might potentially have here is not two black children just out for a lark...but in fact...2 terrorists committing a hate crime.
hmmmm...which way do you think Eric Holder will look at it...??
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Old 07-21-2012, 04:02 AM   #27
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Re: Grandpa foils robbery... concealed carry works!

awesome Grandpa,well done!
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:28 AM   #28
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Re: Grandpa foils robbery... concealed carry works!

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Originally Posted by LunkerBuster View Post
Please don't state the law conclusively. Especially when you are wrong. The old man was not charged. He doesn't not need any defense. There is NO bar to filing a civil suit EVER. As was stated it might be meritorious and he may face costs and fees but you can always file a suit

Please see the highlighted section below and tell me your interpretation. Perhaps you or califdiver can come up with a different interpretation than I, but to me it looks pretty cut and dried.

2011 Florida Statutes CHAPTER 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE[21]

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—

(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and (b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or (b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or (c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or (d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

(4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.

(5) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night. (b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest. (c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:52 AM   #29
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Re: Grandpa foils robbery... concealed carry works!

Reef guy,i'm all for the old guy not being charged with any thing and it looks like he wont be charged,that doesn't mean the thugs will not sue him and cost him money. Zimmerman (SP) thought his case was cut and dry too i bet ,how is that working out for him????
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Old 07-23-2012, 01:02 PM   #30
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Re: Grandpa foils robbery... concealed carry works!

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Originally Posted by Calif_Diver View Post
Reef guy,i'm all for the old guy not being charged with any thing and it looks like he wont be charged,that doesn't mean the thugs will not sue him and cost him money. Zimmerman (SP) thought his case was cut and dry too i bet ,how is that working out for him????
Did you see my post of the above Florida State Statutes? Please review the highlighted section:

"A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force"

Immune from criminal prosecution and civil action.

Zimmerman's problem is that he started out as the agressor (he was pursuing Martin) and we have only his word that he called off the pursuit and was attacked and defended himself. It was never cut and dried. Where did you get that opinion from? There is legimate question on whether stand your ground applies and that must be settled in court.

The law is clear, and in the old man's case, it's on video and beyond question a stand your ground issue. Zimmerman's case, not so much, no matter what he did or did not think at the time.

If Zimmerman's Stand your ground defense is successful, he will be immune to civil action as well.
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