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Old 12-02-2010, 02:39 PM   #1
SpearMax
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Thumbs up FINALLY! - Some Good Spearfishing Regulatory News at the Weston FWC Meeting

The FWC meeting today went very well for us!

After a long session on the Permit Pompano issue with many speakers, the Commissioners all seemed to agree that spearfishing should not be discriminated against in the new regulations. They told staff to retain the current ban on spearing in state waters, but do not disriminate against spearfishing in Federal waters. They asked staff to go back and separate the Permit and Pompano regs, look at geographical area management, work on starting scientific data collection, and re-evaluate the closure issue.

That is a huge win! Denny and I were very happy.

The other interesting news I heard was when Mark Robson of FWC who sits on the SAFMC for them said the council might scrap the Amendment 17A closure based on new data.

Today was a good day for us.

Thanks to all who sent e-mails, helped FRA, showed up today, or otherwise helped out.

Those there were Denny, me, greekdiver, seaweed, Ed Walker, CMFish, jfjf, and several other spearos.
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:46 PM   #2
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Re: FINALLY! - Some Good Spearfishing Regulatory News at the Weston FWC Meeting

Davie and I decided it would be a good idea to go to this meeting. This was our first meeting. We wanted to see how the system works and get our point across. We saw JFJF, Tony from spearboard, Ed Walker (Gulf Coast), CMFISH(Chris), and Denny (FRA). Spearfishing was a big issue and I was glad that we all got to the podium and spoke on the behalf of spearfishing. After we all spoke, everyone on the FWC panel there decided that spearfishing shouldn't be discriminated against. A quote from the

I was disappointed not seeing more people in our area go to these VERY CLOSE meetings. The commission was very open to our suggestions. If you ever have a chance to go to these meetings, you should really go. It is not a waste of time.

From what I understand the no spearing regulation was somebody's idea with no backing for it presented. Everyone including the guides present wanted to know why these regulations are being placed with no scientific backing.

My favorite part of the meeting was when ALL the commissioners agreed out loud that there shouldn't be any discrimination towards spearfishing. And then the chairman quickly jumps in with words saying, "We will not change state water NO Permit spearfishing rules."

I guess its ok to be discriminatory in state waters.
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:10 PM   #3
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Re: FINALLY! - Some Good Spearfishing Regulatory News at the Weston FWC Meeting

The commission overall were very receptive and not closed minded as I was expecting. They were listening to all the sides. I was going to ask the commission who spearfishes but someone already asked that question. Their answer was 2 people out of the whole group of 8(i think). Imo, FWC commission does not really know what spearfishing really is. But still they were listening to us. I think if the commission was better educated about spearfishing or the underwater realm, the rules wouldn't be as biased towards us.
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:13 PM   #4
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Re: FINALLY! - Some Good Spearfishing Regulatory News at the Weston FWC Meeting

Regardless of some people hating Tony, he was there and was representing well for spearos.
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Old 12-02-2010, 06:35 PM   #5
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Re: FINALLY! - Some Good Spearfishing Regulatory News at the Weston FWC Meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by greekdiver View Post
The commission overall were very receptive and not closed minded as I was expecting. They were listening to all the sides. I was going to ask the commission who spearfishes but someone already asked that question. Their answer was 2 people out of the whole group of 8(i think). Imo, FWC commission does not really know what spearfishing really is. But still they were listening to us. I think if the commission was better educated about spearfishing or the underwater realm, the rules wouldn't be as biased towards us.
Thank you for attending greekdiver. Your "freediver" testimony tied in perfect with Dennis O'Hern, Of the FRA, land hunting comparisons.
His testimony seemed to really strike a nerve with the commission since they all land hunt.
It seems the commissioners finally understood (at least a little) what spearfishing is all about. I liked how the one commissioner compared it to stalking big game with a bow and arrow.

It sure would have been nice to see a few more spearfishers, particularly those who live just down the road, but a few are better then none.

And thanks to everyone else who attended!!
These meetings are certainly a sacrifice of time and money but your attendance is appreciated by the community and those fighting hardest for fairness in fisheries management, I assure you.
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Old 12-02-2010, 06:47 PM   #6
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Re: FINALLY! - Some Good Spearfishing Regulatory News at the Weston FWC Meeting

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Regardless of some people hating Tony, he was there and was representing well for spearos.
Thanks Harry!

I ignore haters (especially the ones banned from spearboard) and just continue to try doing the right thing for the good of this sport.

The rest of us have to work together to preserve and protect this sport. It was great to see you guys there and speaking out to let the commissioners see who we are as spearos.

I thought the funny exchange when I supposedly misquoted Chairman Barreto on "A dead fish in the cooler is a dead fish" (which I verified with Ed Walker right after that exchange) gave us some pretty good insight that the Commissioners had already (prior to today's testimony) moved favorably toward seeing spearfishing was not the bad gear-type that some of those other presenters were implying.

Good job everyone! That's whether you were there in person or sent an e-mail to the commissioners or simply provided encouragement instead of negativity within our small community. Every little bit helps!

Tony
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:37 PM   #7
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Re: FINALLY! - Some Good Spearfishing Regulatory News at the Weston FWC Meeting

Actually, I don't remember anyone saying that spearfishing was a bad gear type. Some of them simply stated they wanted the extension of State rules into federal waters. That sounds a lot more palatable then saying we want an expansion of the existing discriminatory rules into a much larger (federal) area.

The commissioners stated they wanted all discriminatory language out of the next proposal that staff delivers to them. I guess we need to make sure that they revise their proposed rules to allow spearfisherman to take 5-6 ?? small permit just as H&L fisherman are currently proposed to be allowed?

I know that we rarely see those small specimens in federal waters, so is it worth arguing over? My first inclination is "yes", since hammering on the principle of zero discrimination against gear types is a worthwhile goal for spearfisherman. ?????????

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Old 12-02-2010, 08:16 PM   #8
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Re: FINALLY! - Some Good Spearfishing Regulatory News at the Weston FWC Meeting

Glad to hear it went well. As past posts will document, I've been in favor of the Gulf EEZ remaining open to spearing permit with the caveat that all user groups be prohibited from hounding the fish while it's spawning. Given that so many species suffered catastrophic collapse from fishers pounding them when they aggregate to spawn, this seems like a fair concession. As for state waters, the number of registered fishing guides is astounding and as such asking for a lifting of the state permit spearfishing prohibition would be futile and make enemies out of a powerful group that for now is at least neutral. It may stick in some people's throats to accept the continuance of a state closure but it's an imperfect world. I received reports from attendies at the meeting and add my voice to the "atta boy" to all who took the time to attend. From years of attending fishery meetings I can understand the frustration you feel that more didn't attend but I assure you that the turnout was good. Human nature will always keep the numbers lower than you wish they were. Tony, I have to tell you that based on what I was told it was not "funny" that you ended up in a back and forth with Commissioner Barreto as to what he did or did not say previously. Your comment put him on the spot and regardless of whether you were technically accurate or not, you made no brownie points trying to drive it home by arguing with him. It doesn't matter whether he says it's midnight at noon. You offer an "apology if I'm mistaken" and go on. Putting the FWC Chairman on the hot seat probably made you a new enemy. Fortunately the presence of other spearos, letters to the Chairman from still others AND the fact that a number of the commissioners ARE in fact divers carried the day.
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Old 12-02-2010, 09:23 PM   #9
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Re: FINALLY! - Some Good Spearfishing Regulatory News at the Weston FWC Meeting

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Tony, I have to tell you that based on what I was told it was not "funny" that you ended up in a back and forth with Commissioner Barreto as to what he did or did not say previously. Your comment put him on the spot and regardless of whether you were technically accurate or not, you made no brownie points trying to drive it home by arguing with him. It doesn't matter whether he says it's midnight at noon. You offer an "apology if I'm mistaken" and go on. Putting the FWC Chairman on the hot seat probably made you a new enemy. Fortunately the presence of other spearos, letters to the Chairman from still others AND the fact that a number of the commissioners ARE in fact divers carried the day.
Bill, once again you are speculating wildly. Ed Walker confirmed to me right after that exchange that he too thought the Chairman had said that quote at the Clewiston Meeting. But alas, all is well Bill. The Chairman and I had a great exchange at the break after the Permit session. He gave me his card and we will be having lunch in Miami very soon. Turns out we know many of the same people on the political scene. He was appointed by Jeb Bush whom I had lunch with four days ago. Incoming Governor Scott is someone I have very good connections to and I spoke with new Congressman Allen West (who is a diver) about today's FWC meeting on the way there this morning. No enemies in that crowd my friend! Just do your thing Bill (but quit sniping) and let me do mine. Peace, Tony
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Old 12-03-2010, 07:56 AM   #10
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Re: FWC Permit and Pompano - CALL TO ACTION - December 2 in Weston, FL - VERY IMPORTA

from this article in the Citizen they didnt screw us too bad

Anglers debate permit rules for 2 hours
BY TIMOTHY O'HARA Citizen Staff
tohara@keysnews.com
A state fishery management council Thursday postponed voting on a series of controversial permit and pompano regulations and directed its biologists to develop rules that treat the fish differently in different parts of the state.



The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) board also directed the staff to place permit and pompano in separate management classifications, which would impose different rules on them.



A majority of the board agreed the rules for hook-and-line fishing and spearfishing for permit should be the same. A proposal the board was to consider Thursday called for a smaller bag limit for divers who spear, one per person versus two per person for hook-and-line fishermen.



The commission heard nearly two hours of testimony from fishermen from across the state that pitted Florida Keys fishermen against divers who spearfish and fishermen from northern coastal areas of Florida.



The fishermen argued over whether the state needs to close during the summer spawning months, if the bag limit needs to be reduced and whether people should be allowed to spear them.



Jerry Sansom, the executive director of the Organized Fishermen of Florida, argued "there is no demonstrated crisis" in the permit and pompano fishery. "This is just too much too fast," he said. "Just extend the current regulations into state waters."



The proposed rule changes came out of concern that there were no permit regulations in federal waters and fishermen were targeting them on offshore wrecks and taking as many permit as they wanted.



Keys guides contended that spearfishing for permit should not be allowed and the fishery should be closed in May, June and July, when they spawn. Some fishermen north of the Keys retorted the summer months should be open, as that is when permit and pompano congregate on the wrecks. They said there are plenty of permit and pompano and will remain that way if people follow the allotted bag limits.



FWC commissioners agreed that one size does not fit all, and that rules for fishing for permit and pompano perhaps need to be different in different parts of the state.



However, all fishermen were in agreement that a stock assessment for permit and pompano needs to be done, as one has never been conducted.



"There is a dangerous lack of information," said Aaron Adams, director of operations for the conservation group Bonefish & Tarpon Trust. "Fisheries have collapsed because of a lack of information."



The FWC board agreed that a thorough assessment of the permit and pompano is necessary, as there is not enough information to impose meaningful rules. Fishery managers need to know how many permit there are and where and when they spawn and hunt, board members said.



The FWC board directed its staff to tweak the rules and come back with draft ones when the commission meets in April.



tohara@keysnews.com
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:09 AM   #11
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Re: FINALLY! - Some Good Spearfishing Regulatory News at the Weston FWC Meeting

Tony, are they any more names you'd like to drop? You're as bad as my mother.

An eyewitness and avid spearfisher reported that you were called out twice: Once for the misquote, second for making some statement to the effect that there were no divers on the Commission to which a number of them countered you. I was further told that Mr. Barreto told you directly "get your facts straight". Regardless of his personal opinion Mr. Barreto isn't going to snub you because his position doesn't allow for such behavior. Beyond that, you might try to read between the lines a little better. Your thing? I'm glad to know you think you're so important Tony, and so effective. Most, including me don't share your self-evaluation but hey, have at it.
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:10 AM   #12
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Re: FINALLY! - Some Good Spearfishing Regulatory News at the Weston FWC Meeting

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Tony, are they any more names you'd like to drop? You're as bad as my mother.

An eyewitness and avid spearfisher reported that you were called out twice: Once for the misquote, second for making some statement to the effect that there were no divers on the Commission to which a number of them countered you. I was further told that Mr. Barreto told you directly get your facts straight". Regardless of his personal opinion Mr. Barreto isn't going to snub you because his position doesn't allow for such behavior. Beyond that, you might try to read between the lines a little better. Your job? I'm glad to know you think you're so important Tony, and so effective. Most, including me don't share your self-evaluation but hey, have at it.
Thank you Bill for your wisdom from afar. I believe FSU will re-broadcast the whole meeting. You can check your "facts" then.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:09 AM   #13
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Re: FINALLY! - Some Good Spearfishing Regulatory News at the Weston FWC Meeting

All-
Thanks to all who attended the meeting, as well as those who submitted comments beforehand. Chris- I enjoyed talking with you afterward.

The hunting analogy was a SPIKE in the drive to kill spearfishing.
The commissioners listened to us and had no real choice but to agree with our logic and facts.

While a bigger pro-spearing crowd would have been nice, I see it this way:
We brought the guns and ammo we needed without wasting time, energy and ammunition that could be used for other efforts.

There will be more opportunities for you all to show up.

I am proud as hell to represent you all before the Commission, the Councils and Congress itself. You are my family and I will take it to the wall for you all.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:14 AM   #14
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Re: FINALLY! - Some Good Spearfishing Regulatory News at the Weston FWC Meeting

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Tony, are they any more names you'd like to drop? You're as bad as my mother.

An eyewitness and avid spearfisher reported that you were called out twice: Once for the misquote, second for making some statement to the effect that there were no divers on the Commission to which a number of them countered you. I was further told that Mr. Barreto told you directly "get your facts straight". Regardless of his personal opinion Mr. Barreto isn't going to snub you because his position doesn't allow for such behavior. Beyond that, you might try to read between the lines a little better. Your thing? I'm glad to know you think you're so important Tony, and so effective. Most, including me don't share your self-evaluation but hey, have at it.
You weren't there and you didn't watch the video. You are drawing conclusions based on what some (unnamed person) told you about the situation.

I was there and don't know if Tony "was effective". Maybe it was ME? . I spoke for all of maybe 100 seconds or possibly it was Denny or maybe the other speakers who sacrificed money and working time to attend?? Does it even matter?

Clearly the FWC members got a very, very clear picture (from EVERYONE that supported a "take" of permit) that exclusionary rules against spearfishing in federal waters is not acceptable. At the conclusion of the meeting, they pretty much ALL echoed that same sentiment. I conclude that "we" were effective in getting the message across.

Tony's presentation was not smooth. He immediately steped into "it" with an apparent misquote of the chairman (which he was immediately challenged on). I think this initial mis-step was embarassing and probably got him somewhat flusted, but he continued on and quickly stumbled again by incorrectly assuming that none of the members were spearfisherman. He was corrected by two of the board members this time as well.

At this point, I know I would have been pretty much discouraged, but Tony continued on. The mood of the board was somewhat jovial at this point and they made a joke and attempted to put him at ease. I think one of them said "that was two strikes you got only one more". Their response and demeanor was accomodating, not hostile.

Clearly he was not delivering a polished presentation. However, it did initiate a dialog between the board members and Tony and it was my impression that the chairman is much too big of a man to take personal offense at these mis-steps. Immediately after the meeting Tony and I both spoke with Mr. Barreto for a few minutes and the discussion lead into some issues which were completely outside of the scope of the meeting (or even fishing regulation). If he harbored any lingering resentment, he is a very good actor.

On a personal note, Bill, I think it is amazing that you stay off the board for months and choose to make a return by delivering a personal attack against Tony for his actions at a meeting that you did not attend, nor apparently watch.

Hope to hear from you again,... but not until after Tony's next public presentation.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:46 AM   #15
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Re: FINALLY! - Some Good Spearfishing Regulatory News at the Weston FWC Meeting

jfjf-
You are right on the money about it being
'WE'
who made the difference. Every single person there on our behalf made a difference and I, for one, am grateful for each of them showing up.

I think Bill is trying, in his own way, to share with us lessons from his own personal experiences in pissing off regulators.

Not trying to speak for you Bill. Just guessing.

Peace on earth. Goodwill towards men (and women).
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