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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 10-11-2014, 01:50 PM   #1
kwtony
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Rail guns..Railguns...Rail-guns...and a roller too

Okay guys, this has been long in the making, and a proper thread about this iscertainly warranted. What i have is a collection of 5 different muzzles, 4 handles , and 4 different tubes.. The Mako and the Tin Man 2.0 muzzle have their own thread here(http://spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=177718)...the ar 15 was custom retrofitted to fit the RA tubes and the muzzle was made to my exact specs...

I also have a custom made 160cm carbon barrel from the legend Rob Allen himself. We have been speaking over the past several months over a few projects i have been working on and he agreed to make me a special tube!!! What an honor

I have a 160 Aluminum version of this tube as well that i have cut to about a 145 right now. a 100 cm tube(used on that horrific pink gun) and a 90cm al tube as well..I was so impressed with Rob Allens carbon tube, i will likely buy another shorter one..BUT here is what im working with, right now. This thread will hopefully progress. into many different guns

Starting from the bottom. Custom Tin Man Muzzle, MVD roller, Rob Allen closed muzzle with band risers, pathos screw in closed muzzle , and a csutom modded Rob Allen (once closed now) open muzzle made for a leftie.









Handles.....Rob allen vacta 1, Mako Ar 15 handle (custom retrofitted to fit Rob Allen tube, left hand mech), Pathos d'angelo 2




Vecta 2 with meandros mod...remember everything can be (re)painted....






Since ive never seen any online comparisons between these handles i wanted to do my best to show the differences between trigger locations, and and sear location. I lined up the handles as best as i could where they meet with the barrel...
pathos, tin man/mako special, Rob allen V1 (soon to have a meandros mech as well)


Rob Allen V2 and Pathos D2


Rob Allen V1 vs Pathos d2



Mako custom handle Pathos handle.




Mako / Rob Allen V1


And here are the tubes...90cm,custom cuddle shaped 100cm,150cm 160cm




I have set ups in mind, but im not going to cut any more till im 100% on what i want to do. At first i was building the guns around the shafts i had, but at this point i think ill sell what i dont use and buy new shafts specifically to suit the needs of the gun. I have quite a few of my own, as ive been playing with these for the past few months, and will go more into details as the thread progresses.

As far as im concerned, the pink gun was made to kill one specific fish, when that goal is met, itll either be hung on the wall with a mount of that fish, or it will be torn down and made into anything....probably not pink....

This thread was made to get input and also to post results of the combinations....I know you guys have wanted to delve into making your own perfect rail gun...well this thread might help those who are ready to do so....

The AL tube can be cut to any length and so can the carbon. They will all get drilled and pinned in, to be made permanent. I have plugs and epoxy to seal the tubes once they are cut and ready as well...
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Old 10-12-2014, 07:58 AM   #2
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Re: Rail guns..Railguns...Rail-guns...and a roller too

I do also want to mention that the vecta handle now has a brand new trigger mech that Rob Allen has been developing for his rail guns. He was kind enough to send one for testing.

Its made of stronger acetyl filled Kevlar which has a much better friction coefficient and a few other subtle differences. The trigger is night and day from the one that comes in the vecta 2 handle from the factory. I think peoples biggest issues was from the mech, either the odd feeling trigger pull to possible jams. Which coincidentally usually isn't the mechs fault, but often the spears fault.

The orange mech is the vecta 2 original mech, while the unpainted is the new bad ass mech. Sorry for the crappy photo




The spear snaps into place with a sharp, crisp engagement and releases with ease. The trigger pull is noticeably different and allows more of a gentle squeeze instead of a pull, resulting in a much more accurate and consistent shot.

I should also mention that if you are want to get in on these amazing carbon tubes. You need to contact the good people over at freediveshop.com
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Old 10-12-2014, 08:43 AM   #3
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Re: Rail guns..Railguns...Rail-guns...and a roller too

I can't wait to see what you end up doing with these guns. Thanks for comparing the handles side to side, haven't seen that done before.

p.s Tinman's muzzle is
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Old 10-12-2014, 08:55 AM   #4
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Re: Rail guns..Railguns...Rail-guns...and a roller too

I thought you didn't have enough money for a FRV?
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Old 10-12-2014, 09:27 AM   #5
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Re: Rail guns..Railguns...Rail-guns...and a roller too

It DOES look like a lot of money in parts here, if you went out and bought them outright, you would be looking at a big chunk of change, but you'd be surprised at how thrifty i am. This is a collection of years of parts / guns all piled up in one thread. Its been a long time in the making. When a crazy deal comes up online ill jump on it, that's what being a classified/ craigslist whore is all about. I have other parts and such in bins to add to these, but they weren't totally relevant to this thread.

The whole idea behind the FRV project was to have other family members help with that cost, at least to get them up to speed on what is you do when you go free diving, and how to involve them in potentially saving your life... BUT to be fair this is pretty much all of my lunch money over the past few years, spent on spear gun shit. #igottoomanyspearguns
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Old 10-12-2014, 10:45 AM   #6
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Re: Rail guns..Railguns...Rail-guns...and a roller too

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Z View Post

p.s Tinman's muzzle is
Tinman is a true craftsman, I wish in my lifetime i could do a 1/16 of what he can do. I guided him in the direction of what i wanted, and he made it come to life. There is no doubt this will be one of my favorite muzzles. There was a lot of work and effort put into it, and he spent a great deal making it juust perfect. Now that hes done with this, I think Ill leave him be for a little while to work on the Gil Guns he and his father are building.
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Old 10-13-2014, 09:32 AM   #7
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Re: Rail guns..Railguns...Rail-guns...and a roller too

Okay what started off as some rainy day tests are in the works and here is what i have so far.

From my measurements Rob Allen measures his guns by the length of the tube. My 100 cm pretty pink gun has a 100 cm long tube. So well be working with that as our number to cut the tube to. This is 59 inch or 150 cm barrel. From the end of the handle to the end of the Tin Man 2.0 muzzle we are looking at a 66.5 inch gun. the tape measure will always start at the very end of the gun handle and remain constant in all the photos. If should start at at the end of the tube, let me know and ill re take photos. Im more interested in overall length in this test. But if doing this wrong, let me know.



Setup #1 is a 6.75mm shaft 190cm long with of overhang. There is This is locked in the new 'oh-so-smooth' kevlar vecta 2 trigger mech



Set up #2 is the same 190 cm shaft in the meandros mech setting the shaft back 2 inches



Setup #3 is a 7.5 mm 200cm long shaft on the same gun with the vecta 2 mech



Set #4 Same shaft but with meandros mech setting the shaft back 2 inches.





Gotta love these reverse mechs.


Were looking at a single 16mm 42 inch band on the 6.75 setup and 2 42 inch bands. They are tight bands, and no doubt tighter with the meandros. Ill be bringing them in to the shop and try to get some test shots off. Its hard to find visibility to test this gun with my long arms , its long length, mono and shaft....i feel i need to get in an Olympic sized pool or go to the reef to adequately test these. Any of the Lower Keys or Marathon area members have an idea?

Im going to try like hell to get out there, if this weather report is correct, we might be looking at a nice week of weather.
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Old 10-13-2014, 12:54 PM   #8
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Re: Rail guns..Railguns...Rail-guns...and a roller too

Okay, so i shot the gun with the kevlar vecta 2 mech and it shot beautifully. Since i rigged my mono with that mech, i had to make a bungee that was 2 inches longer so i didn't have to re-rig them when/if i installed my meandros....however, i left that bungee at home so i didn't get to test the meandros mech today. However, i already know its shoots just fine. Also, It doesn't match up with all the 7.5 mm shafts i have, since there are two different cuts. While my Vecta mech can handle all three shafts..itll likely be what goes with the larger 7.5 mm shaft gun set up....Nautilus has 7.5 mm RA shafts for less then 50 each, so i might just eventually go with new ones.


Now down to the tests....

I shot the 6.75 shaft with a single 16mm band. While it shot out fully, it seemed to lack the momentum to pull on the mono, i would want to test it shooting a fish at full range, but im not sure a single 16 would be best. I put a second 16mm band and if course it just had more recoil and its tug wasn't any more then with a single.

I will make a single 18mm band for this setup, and put them on the closed screw-in muzzle from Pathos that is to the right of the tin man muzzle on the second photo.

Has anyone tried 2 14mm bands on a 6.75 shaft setup?

I shot the 7.5 mm shaft with a single 16mm band and also 2 bands....and 2 bands is certainly the winner here. I wonder if an 18 and a 16 would be a good combo. It certainly pulled the shaft all the way out and gave a good solid tug on the gun afterwards...

Did i mention how smooth and crisp this new Vecta 2 mech is??? Rob Allen has done a great job on the tweaks to this mech. For those that are on the fence about their current stock vacta mech, this will certainly be a great way to overhaul the shot of your gun, especially if you dont want to take the plunge into a meandros and cut your handle up.


2 inches of extra band pull is nice, if you are using 2 bands that could be a considerable amount of difference. At some point i might do a video of a 15 foot target shot with the meandros and a stock mech to compare the two penetration on the same float.
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Old 10-14-2014, 12:50 AM   #9
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Re: Rail guns..Railguns...Rail-guns...and a roller too

Tony I tried the 9/16" dual setup on a 6.75mm shaft and it's awesome. Very accurate. I cut my bands super short though like 375% if I remember
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Old 10-14-2014, 06:52 AM   #10
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Re: Rail guns..Railguns...Rail-guns...and a roller too

Thanks for that, i doubt ill be able to source any band material locally at any reasonable price. Ill put a shaft order in somewhere soon and pick up some fresh 14mm with it
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Old 10-16-2014, 08:28 AM   #11
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Re: Rail guns..Railguns...Rail-guns...and a roller too

Put the Tin Man 2.0 on the 160 tube, 7.5 mm shaft pathos handle 2 16mm bands yesterday and it shot like a dream. I didnt get in the canal but shot off the dock and boy does it sling that 7.5 mm shaft out there nicely. The gun was damn near neutrally buoyant with the shaft in and floated nice and easily to the surface. A plug the gun so that if i chose to cut it down 20 cm it wouldn't need re-plugging.

Ill try and get some real target practice in with it soon so i can test its accuracy.

I will be testing a single 18mm with a 150 tube, 6.75 shaft RA v2 handle and a Pathos screw in Muzzle next.
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Old 10-16-2014, 08:56 AM   #12
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Re: Rail guns..Railguns...Rail-guns...and a roller too

Tony going back to your you statement about the single 16mm band with the 7.5 mm shaft and the twin 16mm bands performing better, I have found that a single short 16mm band is enough to push the 7.5mm shaft on a single wrap. I am not sure how it applies to your testing and what the math adds up to but a 24 inch 16mm band on a rob allen 120 with a 7.5mm shaft shoots hard to the end of the wrap with plenty of penetration. Also rigged with 400lb black mono.

That is my commerical shooting set up, tried and tested true.

Keep up the good work, interesting stuff for sure.
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:13 AM   #13
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Re: Rail guns..Railguns...Rail-guns...and a roller too

Pete I agree, that setup is damn near a perfect, its worked not only for you but also several other veteran spearos i know. For the 150 gun and the heavier shaft it seemed that it needed just a bit more umph. Maybe a single 18mm...Ill see if i have enough 18mm bands to try Thank you for posting that. My only hangup is, im Not 100% if i want to go that short but im still on the fence on the 120 and a 130...i might just do a 125 and call it a day

This is a test and tune page for spearos, I will be posting notes and my info on this thread and I hope others will chime in as well.!!
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Old 10-16-2014, 12:07 PM   #14
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Re: Rail guns..Railguns...Rail-guns...and a roller too

I just picked up a 125 Carbon Rabitech Apex. Still playing with the band config but if I recall correctly I stuck with the 24 inch 16mm bands for my double wrapped 7.5 mm shaft. I recall being happy with how it shot but I havent been in the water for a few weeks.

I tried a single 20mm band cut to the shortest size on the rob allen chart (30 or 31 inch?)but I couldnt load it. Maybe 1 inch off. Story of my life. Anyway, I prefer a short 16mm band to a 20mm band. Problem is when you cut them short they don't very long.

Maybe a 18mm is a good compromise?
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Old 10-16-2014, 01:00 PM   #15
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Re: Rail guns..Railguns...Rail-guns...and a roller too

Seemed like the 18mm was a good compromise. It shot straight and true and all the way out to the end of the wrap. Shot very well. These single screw in muzzle are quickly becoming my favorites, right next to the tin man 2.0 tho
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Last edited by kwtony; 10-18-2014 at 05:49 AM.
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