Home Tournaments Calendar Weather Merchandise Sponsors

Go Back   Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Boating Social Media Forum > Spearfishing Gear > All About Guns

All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-22-2017, 10:32 AM   #31
Behslayer
Senior Member
 
Behslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 4,662
Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Majd, I thought you were going to sit this thread out? If you can't let us discuss and learn about Inverted Poliplast Rollers from someone who knows more about them than 99.999% of spearfishermen yourself included, then please stay out of the discussion. A lot of us want to learn about these systems from people like Mr. Seal, Mr. G, Mr. Pan, Mr. Alemanni.. who have spent endless hours learning about these Power Systems. Really the only thing I know about these Power Systems is that if you don't have the Bands set up exactly the right way there can be a huge difference in Performance. I'd like to learn more. You already had your chance to drag Seal's name through the mud many years ago. Since then, he has spent 365 days per year improving. If you were not happy with the gun he sent you should have immediately returned it. To spend years using every opportunity to stain his reputation is wrong. Among us builders and gun designers, Seal has our Highest Respect. I wish I knew what he knows.. He is definitely pushing the design of Spearguns in many ways. You see other incredible work for example those Twins Mr. G posted today. Pure Excellence. But what Seal is doing is to a different level as he is developing a new process of manufacturing Spearguns and incorporating new Power Systems into them. Ofcourse his mind also extends to triggers etc. He wants to build what he sees in his mind. From there he'll fine tune it and improve it. This is called being a Visionary. With the Resources of Pathos, or Salvimar, or Omer, or Cressi.. Mr. Seal's vision would bring their companies Up and their resources would bring his creations up.. Please don't turn this thread into an attack on Mr. Seal. You have already had your chance to do that. Enough. This Thread is about a Power System which is being demonstrated as having a Power performance gain over a classic set up. Many of us are very interested in learning more. Nobody wants to see your old pictures etc. So please either join the conversation in a positive way or Sit This Thread Out.

Mr. Gecko, Marc Alexander (Z1taz) is literally one of the most experienced Spearfishermen and in particular Bluewater Spearfishermen in the world. He also is a gun designer. He comes from a Spearfishing Culture. He can bring a very Field Test oriented experience to these discussions.

It is ironic to think that this thread is more likely to be closed than the multiple threads spewing hatred and racism in other sections.
Behslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 10:37 AM   #32
Behslayer
Senior Member
 
Behslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 4,662
Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Back to the Test.

Mr. Seal, how much does this gun weigh?
Behslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 11:02 AM   #33
spearq8
Registered User
 
spearq8's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,835
Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

@Jon ... I would have sat this one out if it wasn't for you ... you might not be interested in the photos but others are. Mind you I am not posting everything just the trigger ... someone mentioned Patek Phillipe and all. I am glad you pointed out that this was about a POWER SYSTEM design ... not about Mac Giver skills. As for dragging someone's name in the mud ... I didn't see you get all freaked out when he called me a liar and faking the tests ... and not knowing the secret formula to load the bands. That didn't seem to bother you. Again I ask ... why not put some of those triggers on your guns?? As for your friend ZZ (not surprised you are friends)... every forum needs their forum clown. I like the "literally one of the most experienced Spearfishermen and in particular Bluewater Spearfishermen in the world" ... are you really serious ??? according to who ?? you?? or him maybe ?? ... but let's say that is true ... what the **** does that have to do with a POWER SYSTEM speargun test? This is getting confusing as BS usually is. You want to say something, tell me which part of the test I faked ... which photo I posted is false ... where I lied etc... But you are still in your smoke and mirrors phase ... a sucker is born every minute and you want to make sure it stays that way.

As for Photobucket ... it seems they have changed their Terms of Service for 3rd party hosting. They now will charge $400 a year for that service.









spearq8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 11:04 AM   #34
Diving Gecko
Shooter & Shooter
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 588
Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
Mr. Gecko, Marc Alexander (Z1taz) is literally one of the most experienced Spearfishermen and in particular Bluewater Spearfishermen in the world. He also is a gun designer. He comes from a Spearfishing Culture. He can bring a very Field Test oriented experience to these discussions.
He can. Just that he didn't, he came up with a childish, even flawed attack.
And yes, I am aware of his accolades (and his spearing charter business) but as has been pointed out by others, too that's just exceedingly rare what he shares here.

Cheers,
David

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 08-22-2017 at 11:36 AM.
Diving Gecko is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 11:15 AM   #35
spearq8
Registered User
 
spearq8's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,835
Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Quote:
Originally Posted by willstroo View Post
Amazing work gun Seal, looks beautiful and performs amazingly! Well done!

I have owned two of your guns, and still own a small double roller, had to sell the big double roller because it was just too powerful for where i spear, thing was a monster!! Yes there are small imperfections in the guns, but it is HAND MADE FROM SCRATCH!!!! Your skills and your product are amazing, i could never make something equivalent.

Its testament that i am doing my best to save up to get a 110 version of this gun in question now. Which is no small amount of cash, after already spending the same on two other guns.

Why? I can buy cheaper guns? i can buy classic guns? I can pretty much for the price buy ANY other gun i wanted, being realistic?

I will buy them again because they are bloody amazing guns, they perform lightyears better than anything else i have personally used, and they are unique. I like unique / special items of quality. Its why i like fast / rare cars, and why i like nice watches (like mentioned above).

You want simple with good performance, go buy a standard pipe gun and be done with it. You want a bit of flavour, something unique, higher performance, and a gun you feel proud to look at let alone use, treat yourself. Buy a Seal, or buy Abellan etc. All down to personal taste.

I love the time and effort Majd puts into testing, its bloody amazing! But he can be very one eyed sometimes.. Which is a shame..


Look ... if you know what you are getting and accept it ... that is absolutely fine. But you know what to expect and are willing to accept that. Now someone who hasn't seen or tried the gun will totally be depending on all the hype from the videos posted about capabilities that are not there. That just is not fair for someone who is going to fork out a lot of his hard earned money thinking that he bought something that will disappoint. In other businesses you do have independent testing ... but somehow with spearguns ... nobody dares say anything as they will get mercilessly flamed. I have thick skin and am willing to call out BS when I see it. Sure it pisses off gun builders and they will get all vocal and defensive, but in the end they will learn something and their next gun will be better.
spearq8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 11:49 AM   #36
2fishin2
Pacific Spearo
 
2fishin2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 56
Posts: 3,085
Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

If that is a true picture of the mech in the gun, its a piece of shit!
2fishin2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 11:57 AM   #37
2fishin2
Pacific Spearo
 
2fishin2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 56
Posts: 3,085
Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
He can. Just that he didn't, he came up with a childish, even flawed attack.
And yes, I am aware of his accolades (and his spearing charter business) but as has been pointed out by others, too that's just exceedingly rare what he shares here.

Cheers,
David
The guy only comes on here to make those kind of idiotic statements. I've pretty much given up on him boasting and bragging about himself and then putting others down like he does.

Humiliation goes a long way....

I wish Seal would share more, instead of how he posts here. If he would educate us a little more about what he does and how he does it (in relationship to guns) instead of boasting his guns are the best, I would be a bigger believer.

Majd has done more to further guns than anyone in the last few years. That's not to say others haven't but, he has shared more with the masses than anyone lately. We should all look inside and ask ourselves what we have done to help the cause. (myself included)

2fishin2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 12:17 PM   #38
Behslayer
Senior Member
 
Behslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 4,662
Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

The Real Question here is: How does an Inverted Poliplast Power System compare to a classic set up regarding performance. (Power, Range, Accuracy, Complexity, Field Use, Maintenance, etc) And what are the parameters ie Guns under 140cm total length, Guns over 140cm Total length.

Mr. G, could you share some videos as well? Or Data regarding the Inverted Poliplast Power System?

Majd, I do think you are being a Jerk here. We're trying to discuss and learn about a Power System for a Speargun with Experts in that field. You seem to be intent on personally attacking a builder. Of alll the people in this world who you would think would be interested in a 110cm Gun which passes Your Tuna test at 6mtr.. I would have hoped that you would have been interested to learn more. PS. Z1taz certainly is one of the most experienced bluewater spearfishermen in the world and it's obvious from the pic he sent that he is in a position to offer some input. Majd, don't feel bad, I would say that you are certainly one of the most experienced pool spearfishermen in the world. You have your Pool right there in your backyard. Why not go out there and take a few shots showing a classic banded gun the same length as Mr. Seals passing the same test?
Behslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 12:24 PM   #39
seal77
Registered User
 
seal77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 395
Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Quote:
Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
I was going to stay out of this thread, but since I was mentioned I might as well say something.

"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me".

I remember George Bush Jr trying to say that once and making a mess of it. Well it holds true here. I just don't trust anything Seal posts anymore because he is not honest. I am not saying this gun here is bad or his test in this case is not accurate, I never did test this gun ... but I did test another gun where he mentioned 9m range and extreme power with similar impressive videos. It turned out to be not true and it was a whole lot of smoke and mirrors. I did shell out a lot of money to test one of his guns and it took me a lot of time just to get the gun to shoot. I spent a lot of time tuning guns and I figured I would be nice and tune that gun as well .... took a lot longer than I expected ... and when I finally did get it to shoot nicely ... it performed well, but to be honest nowhere near what I expected ... less performance than a souped up 2 banded Pathos 130 using the exact same shaft and line. Seal obviously did not like the performance results and instead of thanking me for doing his R&D (something I obviously had not signed up to) his reaction was similar to his reaction with Peter is Lame when he tested his gun ... that I didn't know how to setup the gun or load the gun. Yeah right !

As for making the parts himself. Yes, the trigger and the pulleys and some other parts are all hand made by him ... and they look like they have been hacked up in his garage. I certainly think those parts are totally inferior to what you can buy off the shelf. If I was stuck in some island in the middle of nowhere where getting stuff is impossible due to red tape or logistics ... I would accept that ... but he is in Europe and only a mouse click away. There just is no reason to be cheap and put inferior quality items and charge a premium for them, especiallly with triggers where safety is a factor.

Anyway, I would just say take everything with a grain of salt. The gun I received was supposed to have been tested before it was sent ... that was pure BS, the gun had never touched water ... the pulleys were setup up where if you tried to load the wishbone it would only reach the first tab. Also the bands were setup ridiculously tight ... impossible for any human to load them. Another thing that the trigger was set too low ... no way was a shaft going in unless you bend it. The bands were so tight that I had several wishbones actually pop off (actually have video of this). This was done to try to maximize performance in the test that I was going to do ... and let the "experienced spearo" that I was figure out how to manage to load it. Remeber ... I can load a 16mm small ID band to 400% with relative ease ... I put several spearos to try and load the existing band setup (after retying the wishbones with bigger knots) ... nobody even got close. The trigger was mentioned that it was laser cut ... that is total BS, the trigger box was cut out with a hack saw or some mechanical saw. As for the nice tuna video that finally pushed me into buying that gun ... hmmm ... I don't remember any part where he mentioned that the fish was not landed ?? ... the spearfishing community is a small place and everyone will eventually run into someone who knows someone. I happen to know a LOT of bulgarian spearos ... some of the nicest people ... and let's just say that you should take everything with a grain of salt. Maybe someone else can be the guinea pig and test that gun independently ... Personally, I will sit this one out.
Talking about honesty and trust,i checked our comunication:
Hi
What would the price for the gun be? Also is this the most powerful gun you have? Can you ship it immediately to Europe. I will be in London for xmas and new year and it would be great if it could be shipped there.

thnx
Majd


This was the most powerfull gun I had and I could ship in that verry moment in a hurry.I missed some things like better finish on the trigger and place to atach a booster band,becouse was pushed with the time.Thats why I normaly never accept time limits.
Next thing-You offered that first we will discuss your tests and aproove before publishing,i never asked for that.But it never happent!

Of course I will not publish any videos or test results unless you OK it first. What size shaft @8.5 will it use? Is it 160cm?
Will try to wire 1600 euros today or tomorrow. Will be in London on 26 th late afternoon and leaving Jan 10 mid day. So please let's make sure it arrives no later than Jan 7 to give a few days just in case. If it arrives before or after those days there will be nobody to receive the package.


Thanks,

Majd


I could change,replace or even refund that gun,since you felt disappointed.This is customers right.You never asked for this!Actually I was the one looking for comunication,wich doesnt make sence.

Your last words to me after all your tests and publishings was:
Nice guns ... no doubt you have a good skills.
Majd

So what is finally the truе,Majd?Somehow I cant understand,becouse first time I meet such weird attitude.You say you dont trust me,but i never lied for anything,althought you are always twisting the facts.And your contradictions are unbelievable,so why should we trust you?
Please tell us what is the real reason for all these contradictions and lies???
It is not normal to make somebody compliments in private and say so shitty things in public!Thats ridiculous!

Now about that perticular gun:It has the longest trigger I make-19 mm.Here only the housing is manually cut from a square inox profile.The other trigger case-14 mm and all other trigger parts,including your trigger parts I drew personely by software and order a laser cut.After that I polish them by hand.The parts on the pictures are not polished and you can see the laser traces.Changing the contact surfaces manually I can make one trigger working 1000 different ways.I hanged on that trigger a weight about 500 kilos without any damages.Im planing a video with an industrial weight measure in a local factory specially for you!
The spring is made by top quality inox spring steel wire,that dentists put in your mouth!
The only things that your gun needed extra was better finish of the trigger that i didnt have time and extended pin for the front rolls,with holes to install a booster band.Its on the picture.Thanks to you I found that the ordinary polispast like yours needs a booster band,to take some of the pressure on the rolls and help them give their full speed potencial.I am making а copy of your gun now to show what I meen. However,I personelly prefer the inverted polispast platform,becouse Its doing well with less bands and I anyway I dont use shafts more than 8,5 for the Mediteranean.
After your comment about the quality of the rolls,I tried many different from other brands and found that not everybody have an idea about tech. polymeres.Now Im back again to mine.I use a perticular CH polymere with molybdenum adition specialy for such aplications.Do you think they look less garage made when the frames are laser engraved???
Can you also please meet me with those famous bulgarian spearos you are talking about? Becouse on the last competition of the local spearfishing federation,2 from the first 4 places was using my guns and I know everybody.The local Pathos dealer and bigest importer of many spearfishing brands is using my gun everywhere.I dont talk about all other people and friends.I thing you are wrong with the country!
And I think you should also stop questioning the the craftmanship of the whole American speargun industry.As you see by yourself,people have different taste and standarts for comfortly killing of fish!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20170822_162821.jpg
Views:	119
Size:	142.0 KB
ID:	234995   Click image for larger version

Name:	20170822_163108.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	80.8 KB
ID:	234996  

Last edited by seal77; 08-22-2017 at 01:01 PM.
seal77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 12:50 PM   #40
Behslayer
Senior Member
 
Behslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 4,662
Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

2 fishin 2.. I would disagree... Sure. Majd has tuned some guns in his pool. But is he in the same class as Alemanni, Roi, Seal (for his input in Design and Manufacturing of fully composite Rollers), the builder of the Pneumatic Roller, etc. etc. etc... Hardly. Those guys are inventing Wheels.. Majd is figuring out better treads on those Wheels.. But yes. It is true. All Builders feel a deep disgust when a Tuner badmouths another skilled Builder.. I mean I can recall someone speaking poorly of Alemanni.. For the love of god.. who amongst us has a head so swollen to speak ill of someone who has truly done so much to further Speargun Development, and done it with such craft? Alemanni.. Seal.. who is next?

Regarding those mech pics. That is a Hand built mech. There is surface rust on 316. The inside of the Square Tube has a rough seam. There has been some Hand Filing to the Housing to allow for a better clearance. Would I have buffed it out more? Yes. But who knows.. Majd was trying to make him look bad with these pics. Could be some Smoke and Mirrors and shadow catching going on here too. I'm sure Seal's Mechs have improved since then. He could always build one of his guns around anyone else's mech.. But nobody else can build his guns..
Behslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 01:18 PM   #41
z1taz
Blue Water Killer
 
z1taz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: French Polynesia
Posts: 1,261
Send a message via Skype™ to z1taz
Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post

Speaking of which, wow - yet another pseudo argument coming from the supposedly famous (though always anonymous here) French Polynesian charter guide. Now, that's a funny way to claim moral high ground. Especially because I have seen videos of Majd loading guns that another spearo was gasping at (that other spearo being extremely well respected, afaik).

Anyways, I expect to take flack for this. Possibly another f-word ridden logical fallacy out of the Pacific.
you ll certainly not get any because you surely not are someone i consider being explaining valuable words on some thing he does not know .
z1taz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 01:25 PM   #42
lagfish
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 41
Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Everybody (famous gun builders included) can be criticized. Maybe spearfishing gun makers take it more personally than they should because the companies are usually one-man operations and have the builders' name attached to the brand.

Does Majd have a right (or even obligation) to criticize the workmanship, design, etc. of a gun? Absolutely. I don't know if the way he did it I agree with 100% but when you sell something and put it out in the world, you need to be open to all kinds of criticism. This feedback will lead to better made guns in the future if not only from the ensuing dialogue. I know I've learned a lot about gun designs from Majd's posts. There might be other people advancing speargun design, but they have a commercial interest in keeping those advancements a secret. Majd spent a lot of time on these tests and he published the results for everyone to see, all without pay. I think that deserves applause, so maybe we can go a bit easier on him if we don't agree with the way he's criticizing certain guns / companies.

I think it's very cool that Seal builds all the parts himself rather than buying off-the-shelf parts. However, this also comes with the added risk that the parts won't work or look as good as off-the-shelf parts and may take away from the gun as a whole. In the Seal gun that was received by Majd, clearly the finish of the trigger parts could've used more work.
lagfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 01:35 PM   #43
z1taz
Blue Water Killer
 
z1taz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: French Polynesia
Posts: 1,261
Send a message via Skype™ to z1taz
Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
The Real Question here is: How does an

Mr. G, could you share some videos as well? Or Data regarding the Inverted Poliplast Power System?
?
Beshlayer , thank you for yr words about me , but :

Jon
1) G is G and me is me
2) G was my partner for long time and i am now mostly retired from guiding even if i still help in his clients to achieve all the process to come here to spear with him .
3) G will never post any videos unless he ll use the gun to shot big fishes as usual and he /we are waiting to receive the shafts i did order for this seal 130 as the ones i gave him (8,0 spring steel ) are not nice enough, he did found my spring steel shafts were littlely bend where the fins were welded curving a little bit the shafts , so G being a real pro ( not like me ha ha) he wont use the shafts.
4) G does not participate to any forum/boards as it is a lost of time , i do time to time just for the fun to read some idots thinking they are who they are not .
5) and on the side from this , anything could be said on me , i do not care , if nice well thank you if not nice i laugh because my humor sense is still good about what some could bla bla bla !


rgds
Thank you Jon
z1taz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 02:23 PM   #44
Behslayer
Senior Member
 
Behslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 4,662
Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Mr. Alexander, sorry for the confusion, I was referring to G-Spearguns.

I know you is Marc, and G is your best friend. I know G is together with one of my friends, Poema who really is one of the nicest people I've met. So I figure you must not be so bad either. I think some friends will be coming to visit soon.

Ofcourse I do appreciate and I am interested in the work Majd does regarding Speargun Ballistics, tuning, etc. I'm interested in all Speargun development.

Aside from all of this BS..

Question for Seal and Mr. G, Marc, any of you with experience with Rollers, Inverted, Poliplast etc.. If I was going to use one Roller Power System for a Bluewater gun with the goal being distance shooting ie killing fish at 7-8mtr+ which Power System would you suggest? And what do you think is the requirement for length of the stock of the gun?
That's the Real Question we all want to answer here.

Last edited by Behslayer; 08-22-2017 at 02:31 PM.
Behslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 02:43 PM   #45
kodama
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Belgium - California
Posts: 29
Re: More about the inverted polispast rollers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
+ which Power System would you suggest? And what do you think is the requirement for length of the stock of the gun?
That's the Real Question we all want to answer here.

AND

What features exactly are to cause the shaft to exit straight without deviation with roller and polyspast systems? (As cleverly mentioned by Majd previously as such an important feature. )



Sent from the abyss
kodama is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:27 AM.


The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2014 Spearboard.com