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Florida Gulfcoast Spearfishing Post here to discuss regional action or issues about spearing on Florida's Gulfcoast. |
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05-31-2012, 10:35 PM | #91 |
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux
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05-31-2012, 10:56 PM | #92 | ||
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux
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I'd be slightly interested in seeing this science - like I said earlier, I think this BS about what they eat is not as important as how many of them are out there now. |
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05-31-2012, 11:07 PM | #93 | |
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux
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And since fisherman were the ones that drove them to the edge of possible extinction, they might not be the best to help determine when the GG have crossed back over a threshold that will allow them to thrive.. I am with you and I DON'T believe all the scientist that want to save the entire world, but in a case like this it is a bit different. Here is why.. I have done much reading on old newspaper stories and other references that I can find.. I have NEVER found a single quote or attributable remark by a fisherman that said he/she wanted to protect the GG.. This tells me that even those who were hunting them, did not want to protect them.. If that is the case, they shouldn't have a say now.. If you were part of the problem, you are not allowed to be part of the reversal process.. Now, I am sure there were some fisherman out there that were behind the effort to protect them.. But, they are rare..
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05-31-2012, 11:10 PM | #94 | ||
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux
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Thanks for that - and for allowing me to continue to press my point. |
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05-31-2012, 11:22 PM | #95 | ||||
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux
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05-31-2012, 11:25 PM | #96 |
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux
"NOAA REMOVES GOLIATH GROUPER FROM SPECIES OF CONCERN LIST"
March 3, 2006 � The NOAA Fisheries Service removed goliath grouper from the species of concern list in early February because a recent status report showed a significant increase in abundance to the U.S. population segment. The report also showed the species is re-establishing throughout its historical range. These positive enhancements are the results of protective management measures established over a decade ago by state and federal agencies. In spite of this information, the stock is still considered to be overfished under the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act. "This is becoming a success story," Crabtree said. "Federal and state conservation and regulatory measures have prevented elevation of the species to the endangered or threatened status." Management efforts began on the species in the early 1980s when the South Atlantic Fishery Management Council prohibited spearing of the species and the state of Florida implemented an 18-inch minimum size limit to protect juveniles. In 1989, the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council implemented a 50-inch minimum size limit. Finally, both councils and Florida prohibited all harvest of the species from federal and state waters in 1990. Federal fishery management councils and individual state agencies would evaluate future regulatory actions. http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2006/s2588.htm |
05-31-2012, 11:38 PM | #97 |
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux
From SEDAR 6 Stock Assessment Report 1. Goliath Grouper http://www.sefsc.noaa.gov/sedar/down...df?id=DOCUMENT
"We believe the best advice at present for managing the U.S. goliath grouper population should be predicated on the results of the base model (Figures 4 and 5). These indicate that there is about a 50% chance that the population will have recovered to ~s50% by 2006 and about a 95% chance that it will recover by 2012." From 2007 SEFSC Goliath Status Memo http://www.sefsc.noaa.gov/sedar/down...df?id=DOCUMENT It's getting late - going to bed wondering whether this request was granted... |
05-31-2012, 11:45 PM | #98 | |
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux
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06-01-2012, 06:03 AM | #99 |
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux
Shaft'o'death is correct, the reformed commercial fishermen are rare but Don Demaria is one of them and IMO he is definitely on the right track. I can state from my regular dives off the Palm Beaches that goliath grouper still need protection from all predators, including all kinds of fishing gear.
Chiung, you seem very interested in this matter and I was thinking that maybe you might like to join the research on this subject. I am sure that the effort could use your input. |
06-01-2012, 06:51 AM | #100 |
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux
Chiung:
If you want to see many more photos of fish we wpeared in the "good old days" go to this link: All of this is public information--I gave these photos and data from my log books to the NMFS years ago when several of us realized the population of jewfish was declining rapidily--due, in part, to the actions of folks like us. Yes, I certainly took more than my share of jewfish, made a living doing so, and never tried to hide that fact. So, I think I know a little about their diet, after gutting so many, when and where they spawn, and most importantly--how easily they could be beaten back to pre-closure levels with an open season. Don |
06-01-2012, 08:37 AM | #101 |
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux
wow
I didn't see many tanks on that boat !
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06-02-2012, 12:41 PM | #102 |
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Re: Goliath Jewfish Redux
The best thing about the invention of photography is that it mitigates to some extent the problem of "shifting baselines". Without photos like Don's no one would ever believe what "once was". I remember the week that Don started spearing jewfish off the wrecks in the Gulf all those years ago, shortly after we had been on a commercial spearfishing trip. He found wrecks plastered with jewfish, up to 100 on one wreck alone. He would take a few and move on to another wreck. Of interest were his reports back to me of the huge black grouper that would meet him halfway down his anchor line. Many of the wrecks were also thick with large mangrove snapper and other desirable species. The jewfish AND the other species were all on the same sites. In those days most pleasure boats had no LORAN-C because at the time it was very expensive and only displayed the TD numbers - no graphics like we have now. Word of Don's catches spread rapidly and soon the rush was on - not to selectively take a few fish from a wreck but to take everything. Don's years of hunting jewfish in earnest were few before he realized the fish were in trouble. Although there are some who foolishly condemn Don for hunting the fish in the first place, forgetting that hindsight is 20-20, he's to be commended for leading the charge to reverse what in fact was an honest mistake.
Rolling the clock back to when my father was a boy in Delray Beach circa 1918, the jewfish were just as thick on the East Coast and I have video tape of old timers describing them tucked around the nearshore wrecks within swimming distance of the beach. I'm now age 54, started commercial diving in 1975 and NEVER saw anything like that in the Delray area. I was diving commercially two years before I saw the first one. What was also abundantly clear from the conversations I had was that in those early days there was no shortage of grouper, snapper or anything else EXCEPT people. So now we FINALLY are seeing jewfish on the East Coast again. Dad would have been pleased. What I do know is that the numbers we see today in the areas described by my father and others are far lower than what they witnessed. What I also know is that the numbers in this area have leveled off at best and may have declined slightly. It's common knowledge that many jewfish are poached weekly or lost to being pulled up accidentally from deeper water. It suggests, as Don has commented, that the "optimum yield" has already been reached, unintentionally or not which leaves no room for a sanctioned harvest .... at least not yet. I just returned from hosting a U. of Miami, RSMAS coral research expedition to Dry Tortugas. One of the things I noticed was a healthy population of jewfish living under the Fort Jefferson dock. Mixed with them were many large mangrove snapper. Fishing at the Fort is limited to recreational hook and line and the Florida recreational bag limit and I watched as a guy was sitting there catching snapper. It was obvious that the jewfish were not depleting them. It's also obvious that the combination of strict fishing regulations and the fact that not so many people fish there has lead to a healthy population of reef species. I couldn't say the same for Tortugas Bank, some ten miles west of Fort where open fishing is allowed. I had hunted outside the closed areas in the Tortugas area many years ago and found diving there today depressing, fishwise. Finally, I keep hearing people bitching that the jewfish keep stealing fish off of their lines when they fish the wrecks. It's true, they do. Why? Because anyone can, and does take their GPS and go there over and over again. If you've ever owned an aquarium you know that your fish will quickly learn to run up to the glass expecting to be fed. The repetition leads to altered behavior and the same is true on the wrecks. Now people want to kill the jewfish because "they are an inconvenience". The problem is the GPS which has allowed the general public to modify the behavior of the animal, after which the animal gets the blame. Without the GPS the wrecks would be rarely fished, the fish populations would be strong and the jewfish would be less likely to snag your catch, just like it was when Don first started hunting them. GPS has given us incredible navigation ability - dodging mud flats and reefs, in the middle of the night, in areas we've never even been before, instant access to wrecks and reefs that otherwise we couldn't find, the ability to tell a rescuer exactly where you are in an emergency - all incredible capabilities that didn't exist when I started diving that have made your lives so much easier and safer. With all that people bitch that jewfish on a wreck, that you found with the punch of a button, is inconveniencing you. Fishery regulators will never let the harvest of jewfish become so effective as to end this "inconvenience" because it would require beating the stock back down to nothing. Take a broader perspective about the use of your GPS, be grateful for it and accept "the good with the bad". The good is much greater and the "bad". Jewfish stealing your fish is miniscule in comparison. In case you haven't already seen these "to the point" videos I recommend them. They're very short. http://www.shiftingbaselines.org/videos/tiny_fish60.htm http://www.shiftingbaselines.org/vid..._surfrider.htm |
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