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All About Guns What's your weapon of choice, and why? Discuss the beloved speargun here!

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Old 04-18-2019, 10:16 AM   #16
popgun pete
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Re: Briante spearguns

Energy storage diagram for B3 PACIFIC speargun. This shows the energy stored is less than for a two band gun of the same size. The extra kicker band will close the gap, however a three band standard gun will be even more powerful, but more jerky to shoot, so you have to select on what you want to do. I am prepared to shoot two-handed, so am not too worried about recoil.
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Last edited by popgun pete; 04-20-2019 at 06:19 PM. Reason: additional comment
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Old 04-18-2019, 10:50 AM   #17
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Re: Briante spearguns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholasclf View Post
For this type of rubber setup (where you have a single rubber to the front of gun attached around halfway of the gun to 2-3 rubbers towards the rear) is there dyneema in the single front band to limit the stretch?

Won’t the multiple bands to the rear ‘overstretch’ the front bands?

Not sure if I’m explaining myself properly...


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I understand what you are saying. I have not watched any video of the guns being loaded, but my guess is the band battery band with the tie end is not hooked on the lower anchor during initial loading. So the front band and the band battery wrap around band stretch out sharing the load and it is like one long band with a join in it as they seem to be of the same diameter. Then the second band battery band is grabbed and hauled back from the position the join has moved forward to and will then partly pull it back. There are other rollerguns that use this split rear band arrangement, usually they are not as thick a band as the front one is (e.g. Beuchat). It may be the front band has an inner cord to limit it as it opposes two bands here of apparently the same diameter. You can see the bands are under some tension in this detail photo, but one of the band battery bands being longer is showing some slack.

There is some silvery looking item just forward of the join in the bands, I have not yet worked what it is, but I don't see how it could be a limiter on band movement.
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:01 AM   #18
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Re: Briante spearguns

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Originally Posted by popgun pete View Post
I understand what you are saying. I have not watched any video of the guns being loaded, but my guess is the band battery band with the tie end is not hooked on the lower anchor during initial loading. So the front band and the band battery wrap around band stretch out sharing the load and it is like one long band with a join in it as they seem to be of the same diameter. Then the second band battery band is grabbed and hauled back from the position the join has moved forward to and will then partly pull it back. There are other rollerguns that use this split rear band arrangement, usually they are not as thick a band as the front one is (e.g. Beuchat). It may be the front band has an inner cord to limit it as it opposes two bands here of apparently the same diameter. You can see the bands are under some tension in this detail photo, but one of the band battery bands being longer is showing some slack.

There is some silvery looking item just forward of the join in the bands, I have not yet worked what it is, but I don't see how it could be a limiter on band movement.


Silvery looking item could be a small shackle?

The alemanni carbon railgun uses this band configuration if Iím not mistaken.


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Old 04-18-2019, 12:11 PM   #19
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Re: Briante spearguns

I'm sure there is a Dyneema String inside that single Band which limits it's stretch to Something low like 300%.
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Old 04-18-2019, 12:23 PM   #20
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Re: Briante spearguns

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Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
I'm sure there is a Dyneema String inside that single Band which limits it's stretch to Something low like 300%.


it's 320% for alemanni ain grillť:
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:44 PM   #21
popgun pete
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Re: Briante spearguns

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Originally Posted by Nicholasclf View Post
Silvery looking item could be a small shackle?

The alemanni carbon railgun uses this band configuration if I’m not mistaken.


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Well there are only so many gun permutations and they all "borrow" ideas from each other. I wonder if anyone will try doing a "Wiggler"; a big one!
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Old 04-20-2019, 01:07 AM   #22
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Re: Briante spearguns

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Originally Posted by kodama View Post
https://www.instagram.com/p/BwUyaX9o...d=8bnk5z6qavx4

Above is a video of a polispast speargun shooting a 10mm shaft at 7 meters.

Just bringing these spearguns some attention since I haven’t seen them discussed here.

https://youtu.be/yxUlzrwJr8A

I have the Briante spearguns on Instagram and they keep coming up with nicer and prettier designs, and they all look like they are very well engineered and great shooters. In the video though, I am pretty sure that is not 7 meters from the tip of the shaft … more like 5 meters and maybe 7 meters from the eye of the shooter. I have tried 10mm shafts and the performance is not as good as 8.5mm or 9mm shafts. For a 10mm shaft you probably just need way more power to get the shaft to good velocities where it will perform really well, and while that might be possible I think it needs much more power than is being used on the guns setup with them. 10mm shaft does help with back tail lift if you start really powering up the gun, but even on the Alemmani Vela 130 that was setup with a 10mm shaft … switching to an 8.5mm shaft gave better shaft trajectory and much better penetration on target. I have also seen video of the Alemmani Vela 135 and with 10mm shaft the trajectory was not as good as I have seen with an 8.5mm shaft. An 8.5mm shaft at around 160cm to 170cm is a very heavy piece of metal and at high velocity can give excellent performance all the way to the end of 3 wraps of line … that is 8 meters+ from tip of shaft or around 10 meters or 33 feet from the eye of the shooter. I can't imagine any fish that is hunted that will be under gunned with an 8.5mm or 9mm shaft.
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Old 04-20-2019, 10:38 PM   #23
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Re: Briante spearguns

Pete could probably whip up some kind of chart..

In a perfect world, where shafts left a gun perfectly stable, what shaft speed would be necessary to carry a shaft a certain amt of distance before gravity/friction started to play a role. I imagine there's some other variables like cross section, but probably still a fairly steady line. I think that's what SEAL was getting at. Sure, you can shoot a Thicker shaft without terrible recoil, but there's an ideal shaft speed required for different diameters. Is it better to be shooting an 8mm shaft at 30mtr/sec accurately to 8mtrs, or a 10mm shaft less accurately at 25mtr/sec.. The Heavier shaft will carry momentum longer, but at what cost? Figure we are dealing with shaft speeds of @ 25mtr/sec to 30mtr/sec and 8mm, 8.5mm, 8.75mm shafts are shooting nice. But perhaps a thicker shaft like that 10mm really loves 40mtr/sec, which is beyond us. Would be easy enough to see.. just take a video of that Briante shooting from the side and see the trajectory of the 10mm Shaft at 8-10mtrs in a Clear Pool.
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Old 04-21-2019, 01:31 AM   #24
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Re: Briante spearguns

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Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
Pete could probably whip up some kind of chart..

In a perfect world, where shafts left a gun perfectly stable, what shaft speed would be necessary to carry a shaft a certain amt of distance before gravity/friction started to play a role. I imagine there's some other variables like cross section, but probably still a fairly steady line. I think that's what SEAL was getting at. Sure, you can shoot a Thicker shaft without terrible recoil, but there's an ideal shaft speed required for different diameters. Is it better to be shooting an 8mm shaft at 30mtr/sec accurately to 8mtrs, or a 10mm shaft less accurately at 25mtr/sec.. The Heavier shaft will carry momentum longer, but at what cost? Figure we are dealing with shaft speeds of @ 25mtr/sec to 30mtr/sec and 8mm, 8.5mm, 8.75mm shafts are shooting nice. But perhaps a thicker shaft like that 10mm really loves 40mtr/sec, which is beyond us. Would be easy enough to see.. just take a video of that Briante shooting from the side and see the trajectory of the 10mm Shaft at 8-10mtrs in a Clear Pool.
A horizontal shaft has a sinking rate determined by the resistance of it falling through the water under the action of gravity. When the shaft is flying the resistance to its forward motion is the cross-sectional area, the streamlining of the projectile and the wetted surface area which affects the hydrodynamic drag. Additionally there is the partial vacuum created in the shaftís wake as it ploughs through the water and the surface drag and weight of the shooting line that the shaft is towing to the target. High shaft launch velocity and short flight time means the shaft has less time to drop and virtually travels in a straight line. With a high powered gun I have sent a 3/8Ē diameter shaft and itís much larger line slide clean through a medium sized fish and then flying for some distance beyond, so sometimes you can be over-gunned for the target.
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Old 04-22-2019, 09:17 AM   #25
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Re: Briante spearguns

I checked these guns out for a while, they seem impressive at first glance and the videos donít lie. My issue is the lack of a trigger guard, the price, and the lack of real world use/testing.

For the price, Iíd rather go with a proven gun like an Alemanni if Iím looking for a gun like this. I think Iíve only seen one other person using a briante besides the guy who builds them. Some hardcore field testing could prove a lot of design flaws that arenít noticeable during testing...

Either way, Iíd love to see how these hold up on some more intense trials.


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Old 04-22-2019, 03:49 PM   #26
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Re: Briante spearguns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Watkins View Post
I checked these guns out for a while, they seem impressive at first glance and the videos don’t lie. My issue is the lack of a trigger guard, the price, and the lack of real world use/testing.

For the price, I’d rather go with a proven gun like an Alemanni if I’m looking for a gun like this. I think I’ve only seen one other person using a briante besides the guy who builds them. Some hardcore field testing could prove a lot of design flaws that aren’t noticeable during testing...

Either way, I’d love to see how these hold up on some more intense trials.


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The Alemanni Vela has five band groups crammed onto it, including the kicker band, and I had thought the B3 PACIFIC only had four, but a closer look shows another band group which is indicated in the expanded up image. Adding this band's contribution takes the B3 PACIFIC closer to filling out the two band standard gun envelope for energy stored. The "missing" band is band group 2 shown in the pink border, it is superimposed over band group 1. That makes the gun the direct counterpart to the Alemanni Vela and note that "Vela" is also written on the Briante B3 gun.

The lack of a full length trigger finger guard is not a problem in terms of the trigger being accidently knocked as the top of the horizontal mount reel serves that function, however it does mean that the stock depth in front of the trigger mechanism takes all the load when the band pull works to twist the rear handle section upwards. This occurs in all band guns and has to be resisted by the stock on its own or in conjunction with reinforcement from a structural trigger finger guard. As can be seen by the photo taken from another recent thread, some don't!

One way the Briante B3 could be powered up more would be to reduce the slack in band groups 3 and 4 as every bit of stretch counts as the gun climbs further up the band stretch gradient and reaches higher levels of band tension. That makes loading more difficult, but you never get anything for nothing. If you owned one of these guns then it would be worth having a stand-by band set on hand if you bust a band as a nick in a band will travel through it in seconds when under high tension. This is due to the need to make the side to side band lengths the same whenever you do not have loop or wraparound bands.
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Last edited by popgun pete; Today at 02:36 AM. Reason: added comment and a "then"
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