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Old 07-05-2017, 09:41 AM   #1
SpearMax
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Arrow Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18, 2017

Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18, 2017

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) has scheduled an additional public workshop, to be held July 31 in Lake Worth, to gather public input on goliath grouper management, including the possibility of a limited harvest in Florida state waters.

Fifteen workshops are scheduled in total across the state in August and October, including the July 31 event. Share your input and learn more about the current status of goliath grouper by attending one of these workshops.

Workshops will be from 5 to 8 p.m. local time:

July 31: Lake Worth, Lantana Road Branch Library, 4020 Lantana Road.

Aug. 1: Key West, Key West Marriott Beachside Hotel, 3841 N. Roosevelt Blvd.

Aug. 2: Marathon, Hyatt Place Marathon/Florida Keys, 1996 Overseas Highway.

Aug. 3: Key Largo, Murray Nelson Government Center, 102050 Overseas Highway.

Aug. 8: Crystal River, Plantation on Crystal River, 9301 W. Fort Island Trail.

Aug. 9: Carrabelle, Franklin County Senior Citizens Center, 201 NW Ave. F.

Aug 16: Pensacola, Sanders Beach – Corinne Jones Resource Center, 913 S. I St.

Aug. 17: Panama City, Bland Conference Center, 4750 Collegiate Drive.

Oct. 9: Jacksonville, Pablo Creek Regional Library, 13295 Beach Blvd.

Oct. 10: Titusville, American Police Hall of Fame & Museum, 6350 Horizon Drive.

Oct. 11: Stuart, Flagler Place, 201 SW Flagler Ave.

Oct. 12: Davie, Old Davie School Historical Museum, 6650 Griffin Road.

Oct. 16: Pinellas Park, Bill Jackson’s Shop for Adventure, 9501 U.S. Highway 19 N.

Oct. 17: Port Charlotte, The Cultural Center of Charlotte County, 2280 Aaron St.

Oct. 18: Naples, Collier County Public Library - South Regional, 8065 Lely Cultural Parkway.

.

Last edited by SpearMax; 07-05-2017 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 07-05-2017, 08:48 PM   #2
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

waste of time like Red Snapper opening ,....sorry don't but it
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:59 AM   #3
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

Everything I have read excludes spearing. Goliaths could be harvested with hook and line only. I really wonder if I could take one down with a shaft. Would have to be a pretty precise shot or you are off to a loooong drag!!!
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Old 10-25-2017, 06:55 AM   #4
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

Tony, suddenly on the FWC website, there is a Tallahassee Workshop at a new 6 to 9 time slot, TONIGHT...This was NOT on your or other original lists...and at the Stuart Workshop, they indicated the Hurricane had made the Gainesville workshop date impossible, so they would reschedule it in December, and we would just have to check the website for updates....How likely is it that the FWC is trying to "pull a fast one", and is trying to sneak a pro-harvest workshop past the eco-tourism anti-harvest dive communities?



Quote:
Originally Posted by SpearMax View Post
Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18, 2017

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) has scheduled an additional public workshop, to be held July 31 in Lake Worth, to gather public input on goliath grouper management, including the possibility of a limited harvest in Florida state waters.

Fifteen workshops are scheduled in total across the state in August and October, including the July 31 event. Share your input and learn more about the current status of goliath grouper by attending one of these workshops.

Workshops will be from 5 to 8 p.m. local time:

July 31: Lake Worth, Lantana Road Branch Library, 4020 Lantana Road.

Aug. 1: Key West, Key West Marriott Beachside Hotel, 3841 N. Roosevelt Blvd.

Aug. 2: Marathon, Hyatt Place Marathon/Florida Keys, 1996 Overseas Highway.

Aug. 3: Key Largo, Murray Nelson Government Center, 102050 Overseas Highway.

Aug. 8: Crystal River, Plantation on Crystal River, 9301 W. Fort Island Trail.

Aug. 9: Carrabelle, Franklin County Senior Citizens Center, 201 NW Ave. F.

Aug 16: Pensacola, Sanders Beach – Corinne Jones Resource Center, 913 S. I St.

Aug. 17: Panama City, Bland Conference Center, 4750 Collegiate Drive.

Oct. 9: Jacksonville, Pablo Creek Regional Library, 13295 Beach Blvd.

Oct. 10: Titusville, American Police Hall of Fame & Museum, 6350 Horizon Drive.

Oct. 11: Stuart, Flagler Place, 201 SW Flagler Ave.

Oct. 12: Davie, Old Davie School Historical Museum, 6650 Griffin Road.

Oct. 16: Pinellas Park, Bill Jackson’s Shop for Adventure, 9501 U.S. Highway 19 N.

Oct. 17: Port Charlotte, The Cultural Center of Charlotte County, 2280 Aaron St.

Oct. 18: Naples, Collier County Public Library - South Regional, 8065 Lely Cultural Parkway.

.
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Old 10-25-2017, 10:56 AM   #5
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Question Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

Dan, you are right that they apparently added Tallahassee at some point after my first post above which was after they added Lake Worth which I had pushed for.

I just don't know when they added Tallahassee. Here are two screen shots I took of their website workshop list in July and October. The later list shows Tallahassee on it.

Are you thinking the 6pm start instead of 5pm elsewhere is to enable more government workers to attend?

Are you suggesting they might be trying to tip the scales with the in-person electronic survey results?

FYI, Tony

OCTOBER 12 SCREENSHOT



JULY 18 SCREENSHOT

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Last edited by SpearMax; 10-25-2017 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 10-25-2017, 11:19 AM   #6
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Question Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

Quote:
Originally Posted by danvolker View Post
Tony, suddenly on the FWC website, there is a Tallahassee Workshop at a new 6 to 9 time slot, TONIGHT...This was NOT on your or other original lists...and at the Stuart Workshop, they indicated the Hurricane had made the Gainesville workshop date impossible, so they would reschedule it in December, and we would just have to check the website for updates....How likely is it that the FWC is trying to "pull a fast one", and is trying to sneak a pro-harvest workshop past the eco-tourism anti-harvest dive communities?
Dan, I also checked the FWC press releases in my inbox and found one below specifically announcing a new workshop which was the Lake Worth Workshop. I wonder when Tallahassee was added?







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Old 10-26-2017, 07:52 AM   #7
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

Tony,
I am suggesting they added the Tallahassee meeting in such a way that few divers in South Florida would find out about it in time to attend...and we know that when south Florida divers attend, the polling always shows No Harvest as the result..So FWC is doing it's best to have more fisherman in the workshop than divers.

The issue is not a real Harvest, everyone that has been to a workshop knows this....The fishing lobby wants culling. They consider the Goliaths to be a nuisance. However, prior to the bad actions of the FWC and South Atlantic fisheries Commission to set up pathetically inept "managed fisheries" for all stocks, we had tens of thousands of barracuda covering all the wrecks of Palm Beach...If you dove in the 70's or early 80's, you'd remember that fishing on a wreck, or spearfishing on one, would frequently result in a cuda taking your fish....And of course, the corruption of the FWC led to Cuda's being removed from the wrecks. This was culling, with the cudas sold as cat food. The jewfish were culled in the 60's, 70's and 80's into near extinction, because fisherman did not like this nuisance factor on the wrecks. Many of the old time divers like Frank Hammett, shot the hell out of both Jewfish and sharks, this being purposeful culling ( thought Frank sold the jewfish at seafood markets). Sand tigers were easy pickings on many of our wrecks and reefs, and Frank shot them into local extinction....thus his name, the Shark Killer.

FWC is at it again, enabling a culling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SpearMax View Post
Dan, you are right that they apparently added Tallahassee at some point after my first post above which was after they added Lake Worth which I had pushed for.

I just don't know when they added Tallahassee. Here are two screen shots I took of their website workshop list in July and October. The later list shows Tallahassee on it.

Are you thinking the 6pm start instead of 5pm elsewhere is to enable more government workers to attend?

Are you suggesting they might be trying to tip the scales with the in-person electronic survey results?

FYI, Tony

OCTOBER 12 SCREENSHOT



JULY 18 SCREENSHOT

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Old 10-26-2017, 08:24 AM   #8
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

Culling is easily accomplished by fisherman... should they decide to do so. The potential for law enforcement to catch people doing this is minimal if they simply cut and release.

Last edited by jfjf; 11-04-2017 at 09:54 PM.
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Old 10-26-2017, 03:04 PM   #9
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

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Culling is easily accomplished by fisherman... should they decide to do so. The poential for law enforcement to catch people doing this is minimal if they simply cut and release.
No argument there. And we have already seen Goliaths with Spears in them on some wrecks..I've also heard several accounts of dead goliaths on the surface after "Catch & Release"....notable with this, it appears several fishing boats are taking people out with very heavy gear, giving them the "opportunity" to hook a monster fish. On our last dive on the Castor, several of the Goliaths had major damage to their mouths, I can only assume from these escapades.

Some people just love to kill for the sake of killing. It gets even sadder when this gets endorsed by the FWC.
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Old 10-26-2017, 04:51 PM   #10
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

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Originally Posted by danvolker View Post
No argument there. And we have already seen Goliaths with Spears in them on some wrecks..I've also heard several accounts of dead goliaths on the surface after "Catch & Release"....notable with this, it appears several fishing boats are taking people out with very heavy gear, giving them the "opportunity" to hook a monster fish. On our last dive on the Castor, several of the Goliaths had major damage to their mouths, I can only assume from these escapades.

Some people just love to kill for the sake of killing. It gets even sadder when this gets endorsed by the FWC.
The FWC encourages fishing. Are you opposed to catch and release fishing for this species?
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Old 10-27-2017, 06:46 AM   #11
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

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Originally Posted by jfjf View Post
The FWC encourages fishing. Are you opposed to catch and release fishing for this species?

I don't know anyone that thinks it is good to "Catch, Kill, and discard the carcass".

With something like Tarpon fishing, it's cool because there is an extremely high likelihood the tarpon you release will live after being released. So I'm saying this is not a typical "Catch & Release" issue, and FWC ought to know better.
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Old 10-27-2017, 08:31 AM   #12
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

I dont see how the FWC is endorsing people to kill Jewfish to simply kill? As jfjf stated people who want to kill the fish will kill it, no amount of laws or regulations are going to stop that. I am not sure in Florida, but in many other states it is illegal to kill fish for no reason yet many people continue do it. Its like gun control and banning guns, criminals dont follow the law.
By legalizing a limited hunting of Jewfish you are simply allowing people to bring Jewfish into your cooler and into the docks so a FWC officer can verify. Otherwise there is no one and nothing to stop the people who kill to kill 15 miles out in the ocean alone on the blue sea.
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Old 10-27-2017, 10:21 AM   #13
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

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I dont see how the FWC is endorsing people to kill Jewfish to simply kill? As jfjf stated people who want to kill the fish will kill it, no amount of laws or regulations are going to stop that. I am not sure in Florida, but in many other states it is illegal to kill fish for no reason yet many people continue do it. Its like gun control and banning guns, criminals dont follow the law.
By legalizing a limited hunting of Jewfish you are simply allowing people to bring Jewfish into your cooler and into the docks so a FWC officer can verify. Otherwise there is no one and nothing to stop the people who kill to kill 15 miles out in the ocean alone on the blue sea.
True, however just to clear up a potential point of confusion, it is my understanding that the proposal being floated is for hook and line only. ... Not spearing.

Dan never answered the direct question. Is he opposed to catch and release recreational fishing for this species? Incidental and accidental mortality (or injury) is always going to be present in any hook and line fishery even if the fisherman uses appropriate gear and responsible techniques. Btw big hammerheads just LOVE hooked or recently released tarpon _ or so I am told.

So the gg with a mouth injury is not surprising to me. So does Dan want to ban rec catch and release of this species or not?

Simple question, although enforcement of a ban on catch and release for this species would be problematic, unless you simply ban all hook and line gear in the area of interest.

Is that the ultimate goal?
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Old 10-27-2017, 07:52 PM   #14
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Lightbulb Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

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Originally Posted by danvolker View Post
Tony,
I am suggesting they added the Tallahassee meeting in such a way that few divers in South Florida would find out about it in time to attend...and we know that when south Florida divers attend, the polling always shows No Harvest as the result..So FWC is doing it's best to have more fisherman in the workshop than divers.
Dan, maybe we should ask FWC what happened with the addition of Tallahassee to the schedule. There could be good reasons to add that venue. I will ask them next week.

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The issue is not a real Harvest, everyone that has been to a workshop knows this....The fishing lobby wants culling. They consider the Goliaths to be a nuisance.
You are probably right about this aspect in that political pressure from such groups and individuals are motivators.

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Originally Posted by danvolker View Post

The jewfish were culled in the 60's, 70's and 80's into near extinction, because fisherman did not like this nuisance factor on the wrecks. Many of the old time divers like Frank Hammett, shot the hell out of both Jewfish and sharks, this being purposeful culling ( thought Frank sold the jewfish at seafood markets). Sand tigers were easy pickings on many of our wrecks and reefs, and Frank shot them into local extinction....thus his name, the Shark Killer.
Dan, here is the dilemma.

Back then, the number of wrecks was not as many as today. Wrecks are great and I support more artificial reefs, but they do aggregate goliath groupers which encounter fishers with GPS accuracy to fish on more wrecks.

If goliaths were not opportunistic predators, the human conflict of stolen catches would not happen. But, they are and here may be the key issue as you point out.

Years ago I sat down with Frank Hammet and did on camera interviews with him and a fellow goliath fisher. They were indeed selling their goliath catches to make money and they killed thousands of goliaths. Frank eventually backed closure of the goliath fishery and says in the interview we should be careful to not open that fishery prematurely.

That is why we need more solid science. I have been studying the 2016 Stock Assessment for Goliath Grouper and engaged discussion with an FWC scientist. As you knpw, the assessment failed, but it may be more wrong than many people think.

As a Spearfishing and lobstering consumptive diving advocate, I often go to FWC Commission meetings and argue science should guide fishery management decisions. The same should guide the goliath grouper decision with scientific confidence the population has recovered sufficiently.

Last edited by SpearMax; 10-27-2017 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 10-28-2017, 05:48 AM   #15
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Re: Goliath grouper workshops scheduled in Florida from July 31, 2017 to October 18,

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Originally Posted by jfjf View Post
True, however just to clear up a potential point of confusion, it is my understanding that the proposal being floated is for hook and line only. ... Not spearing.

Dan never answered the direct question. Is he opposed to catch and release recreational fishing for this species? Incidental and accidental mortality (or injury) is always going to be present in any hook and line fishery even if the fisherman uses appropriate gear and responsible techniques. Btw big hammerheads just LOVE hooked or recently released tarpon _ or so I am told.

So the gg with a mouth injury is not surprising to me. So does Dan want to ban rec catch and release of this species or not?

Simple question, although enforcement of a ban on catch and release for this species would be problematic, unless you simply ban all hook and line gear in the area of interest.

Is that the ultimate goal?
My answer is that if catch and release MEANS catch and kill, then it needs to be banned...However, the normal fishing gear a party boat like the SeaMist would have for it's fisherman charters, will not typically bring up a Goliath I don't think---the line breaks. In past years, someone on the Sea Mist would catch a Goliath, a short fight would ensue, and it would break the line with little injury. Now things are different, because the boats can SELL THE BIG FIGHT...So they have big game gear for the fisherman that want it. This needs to be illegal over the aggregation sites from Jupiter to the Castor.

And as to eating them, I think most on Spearboard already are well educated on the mercury issue, but here is something Chris Malinowski put together for us after I told him how many fisherman were denying that they could not eat Goliath--that it was any worse than the fish they were already eating.... See http://iambroadband.com/images/CR%20...esentation.pdf

It basically says, yes, just eating one Goliath Grouper steak is very, very bad for you. The mercury levels at 4 times higher than the highest other fish, pass a critical threshold for toxicity that your body can not deal with. This is true of the large Goliaths--the trophy fish, and it is NOT true of the baby goliaths, under 18 inches long--the only ones that Malinowski or Koenig would consider allowable for harvest ( slot size).( P.S. Chris had a phone conversation with me on the slot size he would agree to, and it was only for juveniles that were quite small...I do not remember if it was 18 or 16, or just near this...it was a fairly narrow range, and it was very small compared to what we see on the wrecks...If someone wants the exact range of this Koenig was recommending to the FWC, let me know and I will call him for this.)
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