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Old 03-27-2014, 11:36 AM   #16
phil herranen
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

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Originally Posted by LIMITLESS View Post
I have no doubt that they are fantastic, my bump is that they are 70$+ the last shaft I purchased brand new 7mm x 90cm euro with 2 shark fins was less than 50$... And it is till working great! I just want to build another gun similar to it and I'm in the market, but budget is a big part of it for the college students that I dive with, myself included. The last Shaft I got from a shop was a KJ... I don't know the difference in this and what Neptonics is offering but I personally cannot justify the difference In cost. I do however use allot of other Neptonics parts on my builds and I do believe that Josh has a good thing going, Thanks Josh!
the differance is materials and where its made

a kj/spearmaster/wong/mako is a chinese made shaft that is made of spring steel (very inexpensive ) ,that comes off a mile long roll (no waste) , and is made in a factory by automated machines . at $50 the price is way too high for what you get .

the neptonics shaft is made of ph17-4 stainless that comes in 14' lengths ,then is machined and heat treated in a family run shop in the us . for what its worth this is a good price for a american made 17-4 shaft , a vector marine or mori is around $100 retail (but a little better quality)

i know price maters to you ,but that is the reason for the cost difference

phil
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:54 AM   #17
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

Thanks Phil, that is definately good to know, when I build a larger gun where the quality of shaft will make a difference I will definately go with one of the ones from Neptonics! Thanks for the info you sir, are very helpful. Thanks!
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Old 03-27-2014, 04:41 PM   #18
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

Not sure about the $100 price tag mentioned for Dean's (Addiction) shafts as I purchased one for $55 in the Fall. They are really nice @ have the made in USA designation-heck, made in California!
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:28 PM   #19
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

Hey Guys,
Don’t mean to step on Josh’s thread, but, myself and Daryl Wong get our shafts from the same factory in South Africa that makes the KJ spears.
The steel is very good quality and it comes from the same supplier in South Africa who supplies Rob Allen with his spears, which are also made in South Africa and also very good quality spears.
As for the manufacturing methods used, I have been to the spear factory in South Africa several times. I don’t believe the manufacturing method was accurately described in post 16. And, the spears are definitely not made by automated machines.
Again, did not mean to step on this thread, but I thought everybody knew that MAKO spears and Daryl Wong Spears were made in South Africa so I am unclear as to why the confusion.
I think the South African factory deserves some credit for producing some good quality spears. In my opinion, the spears cost less because labor rates are lower in South Africa and we bring in our spears in very large quantities via ocean freight now instead of air freight like we used to do.

Dive safe,
Dano
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Old 03-28-2014, 12:25 AM   #20
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

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Hey Guys,
Don’t mean to step on Josh’s thread, but, myself and Daryl Wong get our shafts from the same factory in South Africa that makes the KJ spears.
The steel is very good quality and it comes from the same supplier in South Africa who supplies Rob Allen with his spears, which are also made in South Africa and also very good quality spears.
As for the manufacturing methods used, I have been to the spear factory in South Africa several times. I don’t believe the manufacturing method was accurately described in post 16. And, the spears are definitely not made by automated machines.
Again, did not mean to step on this thread, but I thought everybody knew that MAKO spears and Daryl Wong Spears were made in South Africa so I am unclear as to why the confusion.
I think the South African factory deserves some credit for producing some good quality spears. In my opinion, the spears cost less because labor rates are lower in South Africa and we bring in our spears in very large quantities via ocean freight now instead of air freight like we used to do.

Dive safe,
Dano
ok so they are made in sa
but they do come off a roll, are machine straightened , and are pointed or threaded on a auto lathe ,they might have a guy loading from machine to machine , but the process is mostly done by machines . as far as weilding on fins im guessing its hand done because of the irregularity of the weld
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Old 03-28-2014, 01:30 AM   #21
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

Thanks for correcting yourself, Phil.
However, I still respectfully disagree with the manner in which you describe the manufacturing process.
As I mentioned, I have been to the spear factory in South Africa. Yes, the steel does come in coils and is straightened on a machine in the spear factory. Without this straightening machine, the spear factory would have to buy the material from the supplier and pay extra for the supplier to straighten the material.
Some companies don’t have a straightening machine so they have to pay more to have the material straightened by the supplier, before it is delivered.
By having the straightening machine in house (at the spear factory), the spear factory can dramatically reduce costs and allow the factory to better control the quality of the straightening process.
Additionally, there is no auto lathe and the tips are ground to spec, holes drilled to spec, flats cut to spec, etc., by workers using jigs, drill presses and grinders. No guy loading from machine to machine. It’s South Africa, Phil. There is nothing automated in South Africa. It does not make sense to automate in South Africa. Labor rates are so low, there is no need to spend the money on expensive automated equipment.
Again, I thank you for correcting yourself, Phil. And I hope you don’t mind me respectfully participating in the debate process.
Respectfully,
dano
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:21 AM   #22
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

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ok so they are made in sa
but they do come off a roll, are machine straightened , and are pointed or threaded on a auto lathe ,they might have a guy loading from machine to machine , but the process is mostly done by machines . as far as weilding on fins im guessing its hand done because of the irregularity of the weld
Nobody is immune to irregularities. Every mech I've gotten from "XX" or "X" fabricator has needed a bit of touching up for excess flashing, machine marks, oddly ground sear surfaces. The mechs are still awesome, but all need finishing, or the prices would be double what they sell for.

Shout out for Addiction, as I can have fins put exactly where I want them, and in the amount I want them...sometimes 1 is enough...less is more.
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:20 AM   #23
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

You know that would be interesting Dano would be pics of the shaft making process....Id like to see what kind of jigs are being used. Dont know if that would be possible due to proprietary issues but, still would be cool if we could see some of it.
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:43 AM   #24
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

"The steel is very good quality and it comes from the same supplier in South Africa who supplies Rob Allen with his spears, which are also made in South Africa and also very good quality spears."

Correction, “Rob Allen” does not buy his spear steel from the same supplier in South Africa, we import our steel ourselves dirrect from the mill.

On another point, whilst I was in the USA recently, I heard many rumours that ours spears were made in the same factory as KJ. This is not true, we manufacture our own.



Regards,
Rob Allen.
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Old 03-28-2014, 05:05 AM   #25
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

I recently bought a shaft from mako and this is what I received.. Apparently the quality control sucks as well.

The threads on the shaft are so offset on the threads that it is embarrassing. The slip tip sits skewed off center..

I know mako would probably replace this shaft but Ive already flown overseas and there is nothing they can do at this point to correct their substandard gear. Fu--in pissed, if you ask me at this point the few bucks you'd save isn't worth it. I'm sticking with Rob Allen, never ever had an issue with them. You don't need customer service with Rob Allen because their gear just works and isn't f-ed up

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Old 03-28-2014, 09:03 AM   #26
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

*Edited*

I have no dog in this fight....

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Old 03-28-2014, 09:41 AM   #27
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

Hey 2fishin2,
I am sure I can get some photos. I will be there again soon. Thanks.

Hey Rob,
Thanks for the correction, I should have said that both RA and the KJ spear factory both get their material direct from the same mill. Instead I said same supplier. My apologies!

Hey Phil,
Regarding the straightening machine, I don’t know why you think it is not good. Rob Allen who also makes very high quality spears also buys his material in coils and straightens it in his own factory. If it was not the best method, Rob would not be doing it. It all comes off a coil at some point.

Hey splitfiish,
Are you Josh from Neptonics? I know you sell Rob Allen shafts, but this behavior of yours is rather unusual. Don’t recall shipping a shaft to you. I’m taking the high road.

Dear Spearos,
Between myself, Florida Freedivers and Daryl Wong, we sell tens of thousands of spears per year and I have not seen this before.
Dive safe,
dano
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:57 AM   #28
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

how do you straighten the material off the coil?
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:47 AM   #29
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

Sorry to derail this post but I needed to jump in to some degree.

Hi 2fishin2,
Regarding wire straighteners, we bought our machine many years ago and then I kept modifying and upgrading it to improve the straightness quality. I personally run this machine and do all the modifications and maintenance on it. These machines are not easy to work with, especially with such tough and hard steel. I’m constantly push the limits to get better and better quality in terms of straightness and surface finish so, I have learnt a thing or 2 about these machines and the steel wire I run through it.

We are making a short youtube clip which will show some of this but.... there are “trade secrets” that can’t be shown

For obvious reasons, no matter how good your gun is, it will not shoot well if the shaft is not straight, this is why I personally work every shaft. After I have run the shafts on my machine to my satisfaction, I still personally check and tweak every shaft by hand if it is needed, before plating and barbing.

Regards,
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:51 AM   #30
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Re: Custom Spearshafts at Neptonic Systems

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Hey 2fishin2,
I am sure I can get some photos. I will be there again soon. Thanks.

Hey Rob,
Thanks for the correction, I should have said that both RA and the KJ spear factory both get their material direct from the same mill. Instead I said same supplier. My apologies!

Hey Phil,
Regarding the straightening machine, I don’t know why you think it is not good. Rob Allen who also makes very high quality spears also buys his material in coils and straightens it in his own factory. If it was not the best method, Rob would not be doing it. It all comes off a coil at some point.

Hey splitfiish,
Are you Josh from Neptonics? I know you sell Rob Allen shafts, but this behavior of yours is rather unusual. Don’t recall shipping a shaft to you. I’m taking the high road.

Dear Spearos,
Between myself, Florida Freedivers and Daryl Wong, we sell tens of thousands of spears per year and I have not seen this before.
Dive safe,
dano
i didnt say straightening wasnt good if you look at my first post you will see i was giving reasons why spring steel shafts are cheaper / less expensive , there i said that they come of a roll that is machine straightend ,so there is no waste. here we get 17-4 in 12' or 14' sections so there is a lot of waste when making shafts .

so will you agree ,after this discussion ,the reasons are ,

less waste
cheap labor due to where they are produced ?
quantity shipped
price of materials


on a side question are the shafts " spear master " or is that a separate company ?



woody , the roll is straightened by being pulled threw a set of rollers ,its actualy a very simple process .but its a art to properly tune the machine . https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=...96107839204989
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