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Old 07-21-2017, 08:48 AM   #61
Dr.P
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

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Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
Dr.P, I never found a 1/2" Bit to work perfectly with any mechs.. And every Reverse Mech I've tried isn't flush anyways. I would start with a 1/2" and then depending on how much routing you want to do.. you could corner edge with a 1/4" and widen a c#%t hair on either side, but in the end it's easy enough with a sharp chisel and a sharp edged sanding form ie a piece of metal etc with some sand paper glued on. You know the old saying.. "No good ever came from a super Tight Mech pocket"
Ahhh, well.... guess I just always liked my pockets tight

...shame it doesn't seem to work with American mechs though.
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Old 07-21-2017, 08:49 AM   #62
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

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Doyen, to be clear I'm not talking about you. I'm speaking about Harry the Kook. Ofcourse I got nothing against a fellow gun builder like you. Where are you by the way?
Since you resorting to name calling, I will give you the harsh truth.

You make well-built guns. I don't think anyone can deny that. But you didn't have the slightest clue on what makes a good design. You think mass is the answer to everything. Majd had to come on here and explain it to you. And every attribute he would explain was laughed upon in the beginning until he posted the Albacore video in the pool. You laughed at the Albacore saying that it isn't a true bluewater gun and now it's eating your lunch.

You can call me any name you want. You just look worse. The fact is you were touting "MADE IN AMERICA" as a reason to buy an Ulusub on so many threads over an Italian brand (Abellan), and now you are going with an Italian mech. Hilarious!

Btw an Albacore 130 or Denton 120 wouldn't exist without me. And Victor doesn't build the guns himself. He designs them.
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Old 07-21-2017, 12:45 PM   #63
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

What is with the name calling? Making fun of my last name? Are you that high?

With all your gun knowledge and 100,000 lbs of catch landed, you said that 8.5mm shaft cannot be pushed by 3 bands. "High handle isn't that important". "Enclosed track is necessary" "You need 4 to 5 bands and puling thick cable for it to be a tuna gun" It is all there for anyone to look up. You got so mad when we called a brand new gun in production a tuna gun. It was a brand new gun so it couldn't have possibly landed any tuna. Do you know what that means? Since then Albacore now has shot thousands and thousands of lbs of tuna, Bluefins, Yellowfin, and crushing the dogtooth.

I am happy for your success. Most of my customers are Ulusub owners.

I also helped Victor with the new design of guns. He didn't feel the need for bigger guns as the Albacore 120 has shot so many tuna.

We are currently working together to produce the next version.
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Old 07-21-2017, 03:42 PM   #64
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

I have an Albacore, I've shot some nice tuna with it. I'll just ask nicely to be left out of the rest of that. Thank you.

I wish this mech was easy to retrofit but I'm guessing it's going to be more work than just a drop in. Wonder how much of an improvement if any it is over the Abellan trigger? I doubt it's worth hacking up the gun to change. I'd definitely like to shoot it one day though.

If it could shoot both American and Euro tangs that would be incredible. I hope that get's figured out.
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Old 07-21-2017, 05:19 PM   #65
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

The Ermessub Double Roller trigger works perfectly with both american and euro shafts ... the only requirement is that the back roller is 6.75mm. The earlier versions of this trigger were @ 7mm and will work with some american shafts but some american shafts will not enter the mech. I think Mario could easily supply some 6.75mm back rollers. The rollers are made using 17-4 PH spring stainless steel shafts. So if you have someone with a lathe and a good drill press ... you can easily make your own by cutting up a 6.75 mm shaft. The newer version of this trigger might still hold a 7mm roller, but we might dip the cradle a little bit ... this makes the tolerance just enough for an american shaft to engage and is not excessive where it makes the shaft jump down on to the track (hurting accuracy).

If you have an Abellan and want to do a mod to change the trigger ... it really is not a difficult job unless you try and install the "Long" version of this trigger. I absolutely think it is a great upgrade for the Albacore ... although for the Denton I still have my original trigger and with 2 bands it probably would not make such a big difference.
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Old 07-21-2017, 06:45 PM   #66
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

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To others. I'm sorry for this derail.. As you can see I was just adding to this thread positively when this this guy came on here and badmouthed me completely unprovoked.
Here is my quote that made you burst a blood vessel in your brain.

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Jon,

Just stay with American mechs. You were saying months ago to buy American

You sound like Trump!
Where did I bad mouth you? You said people should buy American and you go out a shop for an Italian mech. Did you not say that? Am I lying? Isn't that a hypocrite? You got so upset at my comment because it is true.

I really don't care where you buy your stuff. I think people should buy the best stuff regardless of where it comes from. It promotes competition.
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Old 07-24-2017, 03:16 AM   #67
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

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Here is my quote that made you burst a blood vessel in your brain.



Where did I bad mouth you? You said people should buy American and you go out a shop for an Italian mech. Did you not say that? Am I lying? Isn't that a hypocrite? You got so upset at my comment because it is true.

I really don't care where you buy your stuff. I think people should buy the best stuff regardless of where it comes from. It promotes competition.

Thank you for introducing the Abellan spearguns to many spearos around the world Harry, and I definitely agree on the statement that it promotes competition. IMO, the US market has only benefited since the introduction of spearguns in recent years from brands such as Abellan, Bleutec, Budak, Pathos etc. Speargun design is definitely improving through competition.

As a customer, I don't understand why the owner of Ulusub is always the center of drama on spearboard now. Now before you go ahead and flame me Jon, please think about what I'm saying. It's just plain annoying mate and at times.. you need to get off your high horse. Yes you are a speargun builder, but that doesn't mean you know everything and need to be condescending to many others who have a different opinion or threaten your sales. It isn't just this thread but multiple others including a few that have been deleted. I also peruse other boards and see the same thing. Did you not operate from Bali before moving back to the US? You are a fan of RA gear (as am I...) but luckily they aren't direct competition for you (railguns vs wooden spearguns) so you don't trash that legend and his gear. He doesn't operate in the US either

Now I'm not trying to directly attack you Jon but I think you are going in the wrong direction. I have seen a few of your guns first hand and the woodwork is Your gun designs have also changed alot throughout the last few years (european inspired) which is great and shows you are dynamic, but it is your attitude that deters me from even thinking about investing in an Ulusub in the near future. Hopefully things change. I understand you have thick skin and hopefully you take this as constructive criticism.
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:56 AM   #68
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

Jon, pretty story. I liked It. But a tad flawed. You think it's ok for SA Africa to protect their local manufactures. I get that. Still, RA & e.g. spearmaster make a nice chunk in markets way less protective and more globalized where importing is not too costly. (I doubt they'd be doing that well if they had to stay local.) One would argue that is unfair to local brands in those markets. But one doesn't as this is simply the way the market forces and globalization shaped our world. Not always pretty but you can't have it both ways.

In general, Americans want cheaply produced goods and are equally to blame for all the outsourcing. You can't have all your cheap Walmart and whatever crap, your use-and-throw-away electronic gadgets and your not-so-made in the US cars and still want to be protected from imported goods (you'll see that come next election term when the promises have fallen flat).

As for you: You will have to compete with the rest of the world. Making good guns, well-built and taking cues from whatever works from where ever it may come from sounds like a great plan. Pay credit where credit is due. To your local heritage, to whatever new inspirations and to your own findings. But touting "made in America" with imported, woods from third world countries and going on about the Art of Building doesn't cut it for me either. I have respect for both builders and good designers. Possibly even more for the latter as I have seen plenty of well built guns that just weren't as efficient as they should be. If yours, or anyone else's, design was amazing and pushed the envelope - but it was CNC cut, I'd still be cool with it. Different horses for courses, different personal preferences, I reckon.

As for the comment on the wood, it's just an example. I have no idea where your wood is from but likely not local. As a reporter I know there are massive issues (don't get me started) in the logging industries and sadly a lot of the certified wood can't be trusted, either. Not pointing fingers at you at all. Just saying, whether you want it or not, you are part of the global economy and so are these forums.



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Old 07-24-2017, 10:00 AM   #69
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

Sorry, hit send by accident. Wanted to end on a happier note:

You know from my pms that I respect your work, so can we just please chill everyone;-) Goes for Harry, too - I doubt he meant it as bad as you took it but I can see how it could have triggered something bigger.

Off to a small island in Okinawa with a heavily-inspired, home-designed, mostly self built polespear. If it gets me sashimi, I'll be massively happy and super proud. And as always, that's what it should be about; the ocean and the food and experiences it gifts us.

Peace out and all that,
David


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Old 07-24-2017, 12:02 PM   #70
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

If you want to support USA gun makers, go for it. Nobody has a problem with that. People are free to do whatever they want. Jon has said many times people should pick an Ulusub or another USA brand over foreign brands(Abellan). Then later Jon goes and shops around for an Italian mech which is a major part of a speargun.

You cannot preach one thing and then go do the opposite. You just have to be called out on it because that is not right.
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Old 07-24-2017, 01:19 PM   #71
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

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...Ofcourse our Teak is not local.. It used to be when I was making guns in my backyard in Indonesia, but there is no teak grown in the USA. As such I have sourced it with a guy I know who started his own teak Farm in Central America 35 years ago. It is 100% sustainable. ..
I'm just curious, how much do you pay good teak wood?
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Old 07-24-2017, 02:17 PM   #72
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

Harry, if you want to have a chat, just PM me. But how about refraining from starting Bullshit in the future. I'm done with responding. Let this thread move forward.

The nice craftsmanship and intelligent design of this mech should be what this thread should be about.



So Majd, how did you figure out to use a 6.75mm Sear to fit both?

Last edited by Behslayer; 07-29-2017 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:08 PM   #73
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

Diving Gecko summed it up very well and not much more needs to be said. Glad to see this didn't end up like one of those other threads that strangely disappear...


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Originally Posted by Behslayer View Post
because he doesn't want me using the same mech as him.
Jon, use whatever mech you want. Why give a rats arse what any of your competitors want/ don't want you to use? Brush it off. If there is a new mech that pushes the envelope, why not try and incorporate it into your build?
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:38 PM   #74
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

I don't and I did. I already included this mech into my new composite gun which I have been developing. The gun is pretty sweet though she hides her teeth in her curves. The mech fits nicely with the 'design'.
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:21 AM   #75
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Re: Ermessub Double Roller Trigger Test

Carpentry skills have very little to do with building a good gun. Gun builders are a dime a dozen, but gun builders that can build good shooters are very rare indeed. All the testing I do in the pool is trying to put data out there to change that equation. To build a good speargun you have to understand the fundementals of what things work and what doesn't work. Even more important is to understand how all the little things add up to a huge overall gain in performance and accuracy of the gun and how to setup shafts and bands to best use. I think many gun builders simply underestimate how little things can have a huge impact on speargun performance.I have corresponded quite a few times with Harry and I can assure you that he understands every tiny detail of what works and what doesn't. He also mentioned that he will be building his new version of guns in the US ... I think those guns will incorporate all these little improvements and will easily outperform the existing Abellan guns. I look forward to seeing those guns and giving them a try out in my pool.

@Jon ... I tested the 6.8mm roller and it worked perfectly with euro cut shafts. I tested fit with the few american cut shafts I had and they fit the mech perfectly ... but that was not a full bore testing with load. Someone else, with much better credentials in testing that I have, has put the trigger under an incredibly rigorous testing regimen ... I doubt many triggers would survive even 10% of that testing ... and it seems that the 6.75mm roller works perfect with american cut as well as Euro. This will probably come out at a later stage and maybe all the testing results will be shared. I certainly have full trust in all the testing data being done ... and holy crap it is impressive! I have no doubt that this will be the best mech out there for power guns and even light guns. Being able to use both american cut and euro cut was not by design, but rather a lucky consequence of how the back roller engages the shaft notch. It actually seems that the american notch actually works a tiny bit better than euro cut.
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