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Old 08-19-2008, 07:55 PM   #31
So Cal Shaggy
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Re: Fighting a Leopard Shark for a Halibut

Hey Kelsey, I am on vacation next week and with the exception of Tuesday and Wednesday night have the whole week free. I can meet up with you and Alex for a night dive.
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Old 08-19-2008, 10:48 PM   #32
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Re: Fighting a Leopard Shark for a Halibut

Quote:
Originally Posted by seacrecher View Post
I don't know Bill... doing a bare naked choke on a DFG agent might get you in some sort of trouble.
HAHAHA. All in good fun!
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Old 08-20-2008, 01:00 AM   #33
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Re: Fighting a Leopard Shark for a Halibut

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Originally Posted by So Cal Shaggy View Post
Hey Kelsey, I am on vacation next week and with the exception of Tuesday and Wednesday night have the whole week free. I can meet up with you and Alex for a night dive.
Sending PM ^_^

And I'll be ready to pull-a-Chris on any leopard that tries to catch our dinner! BOP!
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Old 08-20-2008, 09:44 AM   #34
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Re: Fighting a Leopard Shark for a Halibut

I have had the same thing happen to me with ling cod. They charge up and grap the fish on my stringer, if i am quick enough i can get them.
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Old 08-20-2008, 05:05 PM   #35
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Re: Fighting a Leopard Shark for a Halibut

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Originally Posted by seacrecher View Post
I don't know Bill... doing a bare naked choke on a DFG agent might get you in some sort of trouble.
Well OK, maybe I won't.

But I did just send this email to Carrie Wilson (cwilson@dfg.ca.gov). She does the weekly DFG Q & A column in WON.

Quote:
Recently a diver friend shot a halibut that was clearly legal, but before he could get it to shore, a shark bit off the rear half. What remained was not 22" long.

I'm sure this same situation happens to rod and reel fishermen too.

Would the diver or fisherman in possession of a shark-shortened fish be cited? It seems a shame to throw away the remains of what was a legal fish, but I want to be clear on the law. I have no desire to be the test case in this area.
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Old 08-20-2008, 05:14 PM   #36
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Re: Fighting a Leopard Shark for a Halibut

Good call, Bill. Let us know what you get back. I'm really curious to hear what she has to say...
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Old 08-20-2008, 05:21 PM   #37
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Re: Fighting a Leopard Shark for a Halibut

I guess we aren't guaranteed an answer. The footer of the column says that she can't personally answer every question, but will select a few to answer in the column each week. Hopefully this question will be interesting and/or unique enough so that it rates a reply.

I've only asked one question in the past, and it did get an answer.
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Old 08-20-2008, 05:28 PM   #38
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Re: Fighting a Leopard Shark for a Halibut

I think it's technically illegal to have a short fish that was concatenated by a shark. Sorta like why they have filet length limits so that they can tell if a fish was legal after processing and how certain species can't be filetted until you get back to shore.

If a warden would actually cite you on it is a judgement call on the warden's part, IMO.

I think that it'd be a waste to throw a fish like that away but at the same time, it seems like allowing it would open up a loophole for people to keep short fish. I mean, someone could catch a short fish and tear off the back part and then claim that a shark bit it or the props chopped it or something. That said, I hope it would be OK to keep that shark bitten fish because it would be a shame to waste it.
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Old 08-20-2008, 06:34 PM   #39
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Re: Fighting a Leopard Shark for a Halibut

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill McIntyre View Post
I guess we aren't guaranteed an answer. The footer of the column says that she can't personally answer every question, but will select a few to answer in the column each week. Hopefully this question will be interesting and/or unique enough so that it rates a reply.

I've only asked one question in the past, and it did get an answer.
Bill,definitely let me know what the outcome is, or I should say the board. This does bring a good point about who's to say someone makes that up, but if a Halibut is clearly short to begin with, I'm sure they'd be able to kind of tell.
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Old 08-21-2008, 06:16 PM   #40
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Re: Fighting a Leopard Shark for a Halibut

OK, I got a prompt reply from Carrie Wilson of the DFG. I guess this is pretty much what I expected. I have to decide whether I want to take my chances on meeting a game warden who had an argument with his wife over his girlfriend the night before.

Quote:
Hi Bill,

This is one of those "letter of the law" vs "spirit of the law" questions. By the letter of the law, if that fish no longer reached the 22" minimum length required by law, then technically, that fish is no longer legal and the diver/angler could be cited for having a short fish. As far as the spirit of the law goes though, if the game warden could clearly see what had happened and believed the fish started out as being of legal size, it would be up to him/her to decide whether or not to cite for what is now a "shark-shortened" fish, as you put it.

I hope this helps!

Carrie Wilson
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Old 08-21-2008, 06:39 PM   #41
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Re: Fighting a Leopard Shark for a Halibut

Thanks for sending that E-mail Bill, now given that the fish in this case a halibut which would be easy to calculate the length with their body shape it should be simple enough for a field officer to use a measuring device and quickly calculate the length even with a simple drawing of the outline in the sand following the fins countours.
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:05 PM   #42
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Re: Fighting a Leopard Shark for a Halibut

So in other words, be really freakin' nice to your DFG agent, be as clear with your story as possible, and hope that he's not an asshole and will actually try to draw out the whole shape of the fish..Thanks for the Follow up Bill
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Old 08-25-2008, 07:23 PM   #43
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Re: Fighting a Leopard Shark for a Halibut

I just got another email from Carrie Wilson saying she is going to run our question and her answer in WON in a couple of weeks, and changing the answer so that its a bit less ambiguous.
________________________________________________
Hi Bill,

I'm going to run this in a couple of weeks. I've worked on the answer a little more since my last response. Here's how it will likely read. I think you'll find it a little less ambiguous.

Carrie

Answer: This is one of those "letter of the law" vs "spirit of the
law" questions. By the letter of the law, if that fish no longer
reached the 22 inch minimum length required by law, then t
echnically, that fish is no longer legal to possess and the
diver/angler could be cited for having a short fish. It is
unlawful to possess on any boat or to bring ashore any fish
with a minimum size limit that is in such a condition to where
it’s size or weight cannot be determined (Fish & Game Code
Section 5508.)

As far as the spirit of the law goes though, if the game warden could clearly see what had happened and believed the fish started out as being of legal size, it would be up to him/her to decide whether or not to cite for what is now a "shark-shortened" fish, as you put it. This is something that would be entirely up to the discretion of the game warden though. One suggestion if this happens again is to not fillet the fish. Keep the fish whole as evidence to show that the shark bite matches up to the story, and wait to fillet the fish until he gets it home.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:13 PM   #44
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Re: Fighting a Leopard Shark for a Halibut

Full reply to Bills question released today:

California Department of Fish and Game

NEWS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Sept. 11, 2009

CDFG California Outdoors Q&As: Shark-shortened halibut

Contact: Carrie Wilson, DFG Office of Communications,
CalOutdoors@dfg.ca.gov

Question: A diver friend recently speared a halibut that was clearly
legal, but before he could get it to shore, a shark bit off the rear
half. What remained was not 22 inches long meeting the minimum size
limit. I'm sure this same situation happens to rod and reel fishermen
too.

Would the diver or fisherman in possession of a shark-shortened fish be
cited? It seems a shame to throw away the remains of what was a legal
fish, but I want to be clear on the law. I have no desire to be the test
case in this area. (Bill M., San Clemente)

Answer: This is one of those "letter of the law" vs. "spirit of the
law" questions. By the letter of the law, if a fish no longer measures
the minimum length required by law, then technically that fish is no
longer legal to possess and the diver/angler could be cited for having a
short fish. It is unlawful to possess on any boat or to bring ashore any
fish with a minimum size limit that is in such a condition to where it's
size or weight cannot be determined (Fish and Game Code Section 5508.)

As far as the spirit of the law goes, if the Department of Fish and
Game (DFG) game warden could clearly see what had happened and believed
the fish started out as legal size, it would be up to him/her to decide
whether or not to cite for what is now a "shark-shortened" fish, as you
put it. This is something that would be entirely up to the discretion of
the game warden. One suggestion if this happens again is to not fillet
the fish. Keep the fish whole as evidence to show that the shark bite
matches up to the story, and wait to fillet the fish until getting it
home.

The bottom line according to Assistant Chief Rob Allen, if the fish's
minimum total length or filet size cannot be determined, then the safest
decision would be to let the fish go back to nature. This would not be a
waste of fish issue since the fish was supposedly legal when originally
taken. If the fish is half-eaten and there is no way to measure the
size, the diver/angler could be cited for keeping it. In a situation
like this, a fish being returned to the ocean half-eaten would provide
food for other organisms, such as crabs and fish.

Question: What are the rules as far as prizes that may be awarded for
biggest fish contests? How about for biggest buck or turkey contests?
(Jim P.)

Answer: According to Game Warden A.J. Bolton, under Section 2003 of the
Fish and Game Code, no permit is required for game as long as the total
of all the prizes awarded does not exceed $500. Bass tournament contests
require a permit from the DFG - a type “A” permit may be issued if
the prizes exceed $1,000 and a type “B” permit may be issued if the
prizes offered total less than $1,000 (CCR T-14 section 230). No permits
are required for ocean fish contests.


Question: I've heard that this year we will be required to buy a
lobster report card. Is this true? Why are they being required and what
will we have to do?

Answer: Yes, beginning this year Spiny Lobster Report cards are
required for every person who fishes for lobsters. This includes persons
who are not required to have a California sport fishing license, such as
children under the age of 16 or people fishing from a public pier in
ocean waters. The card costs $7.90 and may be purchased from all DFG
license offices and most independent license agents. Report cards are
valid from Jan. 1 through Dec. 31 and must be returned to the DFG no
later than Jan. 31 of the following year (therefore, cards bought in
2008 are due back to the DFG by Jan. 31, 2009).

The 2008-2009 season runs from Sept. 27 through March 18. Report cards
must be carried by hoop netters, and divers must keep it with their
fishing license. If a lobster fisherman fills up a card before the
current calendar year ends, the card can be returned and a new one
purchased.

The purpose of the Spiny Lobster Report Card is to allow DFG biologists
to find out how many people are fishing for lobster, how long it takes
to catch them, how many are being harvested, what type of gear is being
used and where they are being caught. With this information, biologists
can determine whether the lobster resource is healthy and if current
fishing regulations are working correctly. Without fishing regulations,
California's marine resources would not remain sustainable and some
species might even eventually disappear completely.

* * *

Carrie Wilson is a marine biologist with the California Department of
Fish and Game. Her DFG-related question and answer column appears weekly
at www.dfg.ca.gov/QandA/. While she cannot personally answer everyone's
questions, she will select a few to answer each week. Please contact her
at cwilson@dfg.ca.gov.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:24 PM   #45
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Re: Fighting a Leopard Shark for a Halibut

Quote:
Originally Posted by halibutmike View Post
The bottom line according to Assistant Chief Rob Allen, if the fish's
What are the odds...?
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