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Old 01-27-2017, 06:14 AM   #46
Diving Gecko
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Re: Pathos-inspired Cayman Build (not so pic heavy;-))

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwtony View Post
I'm in awe of all the preeeeeeeety photos!!!!! nice job

In reference to adding some putty to the muzzle, I think you could alternatively cut the slots a little deeper into the muzzle. smoothing them out you could add small groove for it to slide up a little tighter. It could also give you a little more area to add some meat to retain the bands in front end of the band retainers.

I wouldn't suggest use a dremel as you those things are complete garbage, instead consider using hand tools so you can really feel the shaping take place. Some small rasps or round files would be optimum, but i could use a dowel/marker/pen wrapped with sandpaper and hand sand if i was too lazy to go find the proper tools..
Thanks man.
As for the photos, it's just an iphone but I do have two small LED video lights that I use when I shoot these. I have them hooked up anyways over my work table so I can see what I am doing;-). And in general a good trick when shooting is to try to get rid of shit in the frame that distracts from the "story". So, for stuff like this close-ups are good cuz there's no need to show the rest of the mess;-). A clean background helps a lot, too such as an old beaten up wooden floor or a cutting board, haha.

Got you on the dremel. They def have a tendency to wander and dig in all of a sudden. I find for certain things they are great, but for plastics, they can certainly be tricky. I think if they could run much slower that would help, but they have such little torque at low RPMs, so that might be why they don't.
I do have some sand paper circular "bits" for it and those are actually a whole lot easier to control. But yeah, sometimes hand tools are just better.
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Old 01-27-2017, 07:04 AM   #47
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Re: Pathos-inspired Cayman Build (not so pic heavy;-))

I thought the first one you made was on the right track but this is perfection. Im going to make one. Even tho I use HARD shackles on my brummel spliced float lines.






I knotch ever one of my knives on the back so i can tighten the shackel one more turn, even tho finger tight appears to hold fine...
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Old 01-27-2017, 07:11 AM   #48
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Re: Pathos-inspired Cayman Build (not so pic heavy;-))

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Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
Got you on the dremel. They def have a tendency to wander and dig in all of a sudden. I find for certain things they are great, but for plastics, they can certainly be tricky. I think if they could run much slower that would help, but they have such little torque at low RPMs, so that might be why they don't.
I do have some sand paper circular "bits" for it and those are actually a whole lot easier to control. But yeah, sometimes hand tools are just better.
yup, all speed and no chooooooch factor, ill use hand tools instead. The dremel is really just a scaled down and anemic version of a proper industrial tool, a die grinder..They are over priced junk aimed at the 'prosumers', what ever that even means. No offense to those 'self proclaimed prosumers tho" ..The Poor Home De pot guys dont like it when i go in and laugh at everything. JUNK JUNK JUNK milfaulty and defaulty, so sad that there used to be some really really good companies that were in the states, now most are owned by Tectronic Industries and they dont have the same quality any more. Ill shutp about about my frustrations with the tool industry and talk about your pretty pictures....i used an iphone 4 up till a few months ago as well most of my photos are taken with that as well..composition is key but sometimes its fun to have funny things in the background..I do my best to try and keep the groupons to the hooker house and the random pair of underwear out of the back ground on mine tho
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Last edited by kwtony; 01-27-2017 at 07:13 AM. Reason: titty sprinkles
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Old 01-30-2017, 05:36 AM   #49
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Re: Pathos-inspired Cayman Build (not so pic heavy;-))

The Rail - Prepping
I finally gathered the courage to get on with the rail.
Now, I have some of those stick-on rails. One from Omer and one from Spetton but even the lower Omer would have taken a lot of sanding to get down to the right height. And that double sided 3M foam tape they are using just wont come off... I tried acetone but you'll have to soak it so long that the rail itself goes all wonky and WD40 didn't do much.

So, I will attempt to make a rail in epoxy mixed with graphite. Sadly, I don't have any microfibers and not enough time to get some, so it might end up a bit brittle but anyways, I'll have a go at it.

First, I roughed up the barrel so that the the epoxy fillet would have something to hold on to. Taped it up first:

(I sanded a wider area later - I was too cautious with the tape when I took that pic)

Then to get the spear to right height (raised a meager 0.8mm) I made some small supports out of electricians tape and tacked the spear in place with cyano glue in four different places over the length of the barrel:



I used a 7mm shaft to form the rail and waxed it seven times with mold release wax but my memory is so bust I have to take notes of each round. BTW, when you wax things for release make sure that each layer of wax dries out completely before you buff it up and apply the next one:



For the putty, I actually ended up adding some chopped carbon fiber to make up for the missing microfibers. The pic is a bit hard to decipher, though.


The reason for the second turd of putty in the top of the pic is for me to have a sample to figure out how and when to shape the putty fillet. Sometimes waiting until it has set a little helps.
That said, I think I made the putty a tad too thick or the fibers are playing games with me, because if you get the mix right you actually have a nice bog/paste that will let you shape the fillets easily with a rounded spatula. I couldn't do that as nicely as with a microfiber mix, so the fillet is going to be a little wavy. If it is too bad, I guess I can have a second cosmetic filling once this one has cured but I might not bother.

Tomorrow, I will pull out the spear and tidy up the track.

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 02-10-2017 at 02:13 AM.
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Old 01-30-2017, 05:44 AM   #50
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Re: Pathos-inspired Cayman Build (not so pic heavy;-))

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwtony View Post
I thought the first one you made was on the right track but this is perfection. Im going to make one. Even tho I use HARD shackles on my brummel spliced float lines.
The third soft shackle (no pics) is pretty close to perfect. I made the noose just big enough that the stopper knot can get through. I really don't think this one could come undone on its own. The bury right behind the noose help a lot, too not only in limiting the size of the noose but also adding a bit of pressure to close the noose.
What do you reckon, should I start a new thread on soft shackles?

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 01-30-2017 at 06:16 AM.
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Old 01-30-2017, 10:48 PM   #51
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Re: Pathos-inspired Cayman Build (not so pic heavy;-))

This glues on with CA glue, aka super glue: http://www.diveshop.gr/index.php/product466-5766.html
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Old 01-30-2017, 11:47 PM   #52
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Re: Pathos-inspired Cayman Build (not so pic heavy;-))

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This glues on with CA glue, aka super glue: http://www.diveshop.gr/index.php/product466-5766.html
Sure, but for my mongrel gun that rail is way too high at 2.2mm. I wasn't opposed to having a go at sanding down one of the stick-on rails I have here but the foam tape raised it even more, so would have had to get rid of the tape first and I gave up on that.
Thanks though:-)
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:50 AM   #53
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Re: Pathos-inspired Cayman Build (not so pic heavy;-))

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diving Gecko View Post
The third soft shackle (no pics) is pretty close to perfect. I made the noose just big enough that the stopper knot can get through. I really don't think this one could come undone on its own. The bury right behind the noose help a lot, too not only in limiting the size of the noose but also adding a bit of pressure to close the noose.
What do you reckon, should I start a new thread on soft shackles?
on the soft shackle thread

except where speed/convenience of longline clip is really needed, the soft shackles should be great for rigging. especially in warm water where frozen fingers arent an issue. shed that heavy, snaggy stainless wherever possible...
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:02 AM   #54
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Re: Pathos-inspired Cayman Build (not so pic heavy;-))

When installing the rails, make sure you have the correct depth coordinated with shaft in trigger. You want the minimal amount of shaft overhead in the trigger. Try putting several different shaft makes to make sure that all fit in ... but again, try and make the shaft fit with as minimal overhead as possible. The less overhead the smoother the shaft release is as the shaft does not have to jump down to the rail (might de-stabilize the shaft). If you want to make your own DIY rail out of epoxy, the mix you made with CF is very good and strong and will work well ... just be careful with all those loose strands of CF flying around and get it in the wet epoxy as soon as possible. I have some milled CF which I bought, but I treat that stuff as if it was radio active and take many precautions to not allow the dust to go all over the place. I don't really know the health hazards of CF, and I have seen some shops where the guys are in short sleeved shirts sanding off the CF with power tools where their arms are covered with the dust ... their only concern was more for protecting the tools from shorting and just using a P100 rated mask ... but I am not sure it is so safe and until then I treat it with utmost caution. When I work with dry sanding CF I stick a plastic tarp on the floor and work on that while using a 2200hp HEPA 13 vacuum cleaner to pull any loose dust and I put on a P100 mask and a full disposable Tyvek suit (including boots). Also I never dry sand CF with a smaller grit than 120 ... the idea is that the particle size of the sanded item will be bigger and thus less chance to fly around. If you want to use finer grit sandpaper then better to wet sand it. To be honest, I think just the vacuum cleaner is enough, but again I have no clue of the health hazards so until then I will use this setup.
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Old 01-31-2017, 03:30 AM   #55
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Re: Pathos-inspired Cayman Build (not so pic heavy;-))

The Rail - Continued
I pulled the spear out of the rail this morning. It released OK. Had a bit of epoxy stuck on the spear but it came off just rubbing with a fingernail.

In the name of transparency I wont make this prettier than it came out;-) That said, I do think the pics make the surface look way worse than it is in real life (too much contrast and sharpening will do that):

This is right after I pulled the shaft.

To sand down the top of the rail I used a long piece of alu angle. Probably the straightest thing I have around. Cut some sandpaper strips and spray glued them in place on the alu profile:



Took off the handle and muzzle and started sanding:



This is how the rail looks now, it's hard to get good pics of it, though:



The rail is certainly smoother on the inside than the plastic stick-on ones. They aren't particularly smooth.
Now, whether I will bother sanding the outside of the rail smooth or add a second, smoother layer of putty I have not decided on yet. If the outside is so rough it will eat up the bands it is not good, but looking at it now, the bands actually don't really lie on the rail, so we will see.

Now, what could I have done better on the "rail build"?
  • I should have done a proper test on the putty mix before using it. I know from experience that I can make a putty that will flow nicely and still hold its shape and with a correctly shaped spatula, I should have been able to make this rail smooth, even and pretty on the outside. I am not sure whether the fibers in the mix made it too sticky or whether I made the bog too thick. Can't win them all;-(

  • I could also have laid down a layer of packing tape on top of the barrel before making the rail. That way, the whole rail should be able to release easily from the barrel and if I wasn't happy with the outcome I could just have a second go. The risk with this approach is the rail breaking during the release but I would think it is doable as long as the putty mix is not too brittle.

  • Thirdly, I did actually now have another go at pulling the 3M tape of the stick-on rail and it can be done. Just forget about chemical solutions and do it by hand. Without the tape, the rail is 1.6mm high so, I would have had to sand half of it down. It probably wouldn't have been that hard to do but judging from the material, I still think my DIY graphite rail is much smoother. The stick-on rail would have been prettier though.

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 01-31-2017 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 01-31-2017, 03:42 AM   #56
Diving Gecko
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Re: Pathos-inspired Cayman Build (not so pic heavy;-))

Quote:
Originally Posted by spearq8 View Post
When installing the rails, make sure you have the correct depth coordinated with shaft in trigger. You want the minimal amount of shaft overhead in the trigger. Try putting several different shaft makes to make sure that all fit in ... but again, try and make the shaft fit with as minimal overhead as possible. The less overhead the smoother the shaft release is as the shaft does not have to jump down to the rail (might de-stabilize the shaft). If you want to make your own DIY rail out of epoxy, the mix you made with CF is very good and strong and will work well ... just be careful with all those loose strands of CF flying around and get it in the wet epoxy as soon as possible. I have some milled CF which I bought, but I treat that stuff as if it was radio active and take many precautions to not allow the dust to go all over the place. I don't really know the health hazards of CF, and I have seen some shops where the guys are in short sleeved shirts sanding off the CF with power tools where their arms are covered with the dust ... their only concern was more for protecting the tools from shorting and just using a P100 rated mask ... but I am not sure it is so safe and until then I treat it with utmost caution. When I work with dry sanding CF I stick a plastic tarp on the floor and work on that while using a 2200hp HEPA 13 vacuum cleaner to pull any loose dust and I put on a P100 mask and a full disposable Tyvek suit (including boots). Also I never dry sand CF with a smaller grit than 120 ... the idea is that the particle size of the sanded item will be bigger and thus less chance to fly around. If you want to use finer grit sandpaper then better to wet sand it. To be honest, I think just the vacuum cleaner is enough, but again I have no clue of the health hazards so until then I will use this setup.
I think I am good on the alignment and height of the spear on the rail and in the mech. What I did was to do the measurement with the spear loaded in the mech and under band tension. That is how I got the 0.8mm measurement. Then I sanded down the muzzle to that height and added the four tape supports over the length of the rail (same height, of course), tacked the spear in place and made the rail. So, under load the shaft should not really jump:-)

Got you on the CF hazards. I have looked into this over the years and the jury seems to still be out. No conclusive evidence to support that CF is particularly bad but nothing to show that it isn't either, so def no harm in protecting yourself. (Come to think about it, I guess no one knew asbestos could cause cancer when they insulated schools and workplaces with it in the 60s and 70s.) I wet sand as much as I can, but if I start really building more in CF, I will probably invest in a HEPA vacuumer, too. (BTW, your vacuumer has twice the HPs of an F1 car!;-))

They say epoxy is not toxic either but there are plenty of people who have developed allergies, so I definitely protect myself better these days. I make a habit of changing gloves a whole lot. I can go through 3-5 pairs for jobs like these easily. And I also got a proper mask.

Last edited by Diving Gecko; 01-31-2017 at 04:10 AM.
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Old 01-31-2017, 05:25 AM   #57
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Re: Pathos-inspired Cayman Build (not so pic heavy;-))

Haha ... I actually saw that after I posted ... was working on something else and HP was on my mind. Of course it is watts not HP.

Track looks good! I have been using milled CF in epoxy to fill in holes in wood ... it is amazingly strong!!! Easily the best filler material. I recently broke a screw as I was unscrewing it (for some reason this happens to me a lot !!!) and I had to drill all around the screw to finally remove it. I use the CF with epoxy to fill it and it make the area stronger than what it was before ... then I re-drill a pilot hole and put in another screw.

As for the hazards of CF ... it is carbon based so it should be very well tolerated by humans as we are carbon based and it is not toxic ... but rather the fibers themselves can irritate as they are very small diameter fibers. It certainly is not as hazardous as asbestos and would probably be similar to coal dust. What I worry more about is the new nano carbon fiber that seems to be gaining popularity. Now that stuff I wouldn't touch.
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Old 01-31-2017, 06:30 AM   #58
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Re: Pathos-inspired Cayman Build (not so pic heavy;-))

Awesome continuation of the build Diving Gecko! I love following threads like this.

Spearq8, have you tried out the omer cayman handle? What are your thoughts on it? I know you are fond of the Sporasub one but haven't seen any videos or comments on omer
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Old 01-31-2017, 09:02 AM   #59
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Re: Pathos-inspired Cayman Build (not so pic heavy;-))

Looking good bro... That came out nice...

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Old 01-31-2017, 10:15 AM   #60
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Re: Pathos-inspired Cayman Build (not so pic heavy;-))

I have tried a cayman handle and like all other handles I think it needs to be aligned properly. For setups where you are shooting a 6.5mm or 7mm shaft it really is no big deal, but as you move in recoil the handle really should be aligned properly so that recoil goes into the palm.
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