Gun Recommendations For Newbies

[PV_Spearo]

Ive been hearing alot about new guys who are just getting into the sport that want to get set up right.
In a recent reply to a pm I recieved from undrh20huntr, i told him a few of my Ideas:

----Honestly,
I think you need at least two guns if you want a reef gun and also a gun to shoot wsb and yellowtail. A 110 cm gun is good if you can only afford one gun, but if you want to get good and experienced reef hunting I would go with a 100cm gun. Then, when you are ready for wsb and yellows, you can upgrade to a longer multiband gun, possibly with a slip tip.

When first starting out you want to practice aproaching fish, learning how to hide and how to manuver the gun in an unthreatening manner. This is best done with a smaller gun such as a 75 to 100cm. Using this gun you will develop VERY important skills to help you catch fish when they are being skittish or uncooperative. This way when you upgrade to a larger gun for larger fish, you will will have the neccessary skills to hunt the fish and you wont come home frustrated after lost or spooked fish as much. I started out with a polespear for a year, spearing calicos and sheephead, and when i finally switched to a nice euro gun,I was amazed at how well i was doing, since i already knew how to apprach the fish.
I can also think of one VERY talented diver, who hunted with a polespear for 5 YEARS!!! He is a very skilled hunter and can shoot just about any fish out there. He attributes his great spearfishing success to learning with a polespear, and being forced to learn to get close to the fish.
A 110 cm gun would work for wsb and yellowtail, but for a nice sized 25+lb fish, you MUST get within 10 ft of the fish before you take the shot. In clear water, this can be difficult and frustrating.
If you can afford it, your best bet is to buy a 100cm gun now, and then later upgrade to a more suited gun for WSB and yellowtail.---

What do all you vets think??

Brandon

[tommy7]

Brandon,
Great advice on learning to hunt and also having the right tool for the job. I think that a younger (age) diver would prefer the euro guns too. A Riffe comp 2or3 would be a nice gun to start with also, I am more old school California and would prefer wood if I was just starting. Tommy

[Peter R.]

Brandon,
undrh2ohuntr received the very good benefit of your experiences when you wrote that helpful response to him. I would agree with your suggestions 99%. I too, started with a pole spear and when it was time to buy a gun, Steve Schur suggested I get a Riffe C2X (I got the C2, I still like rear handle guns, I find them easier to aim). I've since added a Riffe Hawaiian w/ice pick tip. (Am currently scheming on my next gun... hmm... Wong hybrid? Rabitech? decisions, decisions...)
But I agree with the concept of getting a smaller reef gun first and then upgrading. In fact one of the reasons I havn't gotten a third gun yet is I feel I want to bag a few more fish with what I have, in order to have a better idea what to get next.
(But I better move fast before the little lady gets a tighter grip on my wallet ).

Peter Roche
Tustin, CA

[So Cal Divin]

I'm no vet just a newbie that appreciates all the advice and knowledge this board provides. Especially the So Cal vets like you Brandon and everyone else.
From all my research I've come to the conclusion you just posted. Now my only problem is which railgun. Picasso/favorite, Omer/runner-up, Rabitech/pricey and Rob Allen/???. I'll make my decision after I talk with everyone at the Tournament in Nov.
Second gun Riffe Metal Tech 3S or 4S.
And one day a Wong Hybrid !!!
I aspire to one day dive deep with the Big Boys on the Right Coast .

Thanks again for all your input, I hope one day to meet and dive with you.

Jeff

[Kyle]

A newbie should just get the biggest gun he can load, with multiple bands. I use a riffe mt5 and only load it with one 24" 3/4 band for around the reef, or load it up to 5 bands when I run offshore.
No worry with slamming the spear into a rock and mangling it beyond repair with only one band.Unlike my 3 other buddies that have nice euro guns. They avoid reefs like the plague...Wussies.
JMHO

Kyle

[PV_Spearo]

Ill be there at the GLACD dive in NOV!!

[undrH2Ohntr]

So cal divin-
this is undrH2O, first wanted to say thanks to PV_Spearo, headlands, and several other guys that have helped me with their personal experience. I've done a lot of research reading forums and reviews.....now I'm in the same spot as you, and I am also leaning towards Picasso. I think when all is said and done they are all good guns and will come down to whether or not we are any good at hunting.
thanks again and happy hunting.
Eric

[muenchk]

So Cal Divin,

If you're deciding between a MT3s and 4s, get the 4s. I have the 3s and I am very happy with it, but lately I've been going after YT and WSB and there have been a few times I wished I'd had the 4. Plus...I'm pretty sure you're fine with the 4 offshore, whereas the 3s is a toss-up. You have to get pretty close (under 10ft according to PV_spearo...and I agree), but that might be tough with skittish big fish. Either way, you're fine...just a slight preference for the 4. But I love my MT3S...they're great guns! Just don't put more than the recommended 3 bands on them. Accuracy goes down. With 3 you've got plenty of power...plenty.

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally posted by muenchk
So Cal Divin,

If you're deciding between a MT3s and 4s, get the 4s. I have the 3s and I am very happy with it, but lately I've been going after YT and WSB and there have been a few times I wished I'd had the 4. Plus...I'm pretty sure you're fine with the 4 offshore, whereas the 3s is a toss-up.

I don't own any Metal Tech guns, but I just checked Riffe's price sheet to see what lengths you were talking about. The MT 3 is only 50" long, and that is definitely not enough for wsb and yellowtail in clear water. Sure, you could get a few fish with it. After all, those two yellowtail that Jeff Bonisa is holding in the photo posted last night were taken with a 50" Wong hybrid. But even though I consider that a superior gun, its not big enough to be ideal in clear water. Many people use 60" guns for wsb and yellowtail. I lean toward guns in the 55" range, but I wouldn't want to go any shorter.

Guys like Brandon can get away with tiny guns, but we mortals need all the help we can get.

[PV_Spearo]

Just Remember its not the arrow, its the indian. Or sumthin like that.....
I got my largest WSB in california (63lbs) with a 75cm gun,didnt have a trail line or reel either. Just got to get close and get a good shot. but it just goes to show.....

Rene Rojas gets 90% of his WSB with a 100 or 115 cm eurogun. Clear water, dirty water, doesnt matter. If you get used to the same gun and setup, and are really comfortable with it, dont change anything.

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally posted by PV_Spearo
Just Remember its not the arrow, its the indian. Or sumthin like that.....
I got my largest WSB in california (63lbs) with a 75cm gun,didnt have a trail line or reel either. Just got to get close and get a good shot. but it just goes to show.....

Rene Rojas gets 90% of his WSB with a 100 or 115 cm eurogun. Clear water, dirty water, doesnt matter. If you get used to the same gun and setup, and are really comfortable with it, dont change anything.

I guess it worked, and you are a hell of a lot better diver than I am, but I think its not responsible to shoot a 63 pound white sea bass without a reel or trail line. Unless you stone the fish, there is no way you could stop it, and you just kill the fish for nothing besides losing your gun.

[PV_Spearo]

If you are in thick kelp, you can shortline WSB if you have agood headshot. When I shot the fish, I was at about 40 ft on my way to the bottom, and the fish was 7 feet away. I shot it right in the head, and the shaft exited the eye on the other side. If you get a shot like that, you can put pressure on the fish right away and even if you dont stone it, it will surely tie up in the kelp quickly.

You have to make responsible decisions underwater, to avoid killing a fish without landing it. When I saw that fish, I thought about it, made sure i was very close, and got a good shot.
at that point I was 99.9% sure that fish would end up in my kayak.(as sure as i would have been with a big gun a 200 ft of trial line) And sure enough it DID!!!!

Bill, I know what you are trying to get across, and I completely agree with the idea of responsible shooting.

Peace out----

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally posted by PV_Spearo
If you are in thick kelp, you can shortline WSB if you have agood headshot. When I shot the fish, I was at about 40 ft on my way to the bottom, and the fish was 7 feet away. I shot it right in the head, and the shaft exited the eye on the other side. If you get a shot like that, you can put pressure on the fish right away and even if you dont stone it, it will surely tie up in the kelp quickly.

You have to make responsible decisions underwater, to avoid killing a fish without landing it. When I saw that fish, I thought about it, made sure i was very close, and got a good shot.
at that point I was 99.9% sure that fish would end up in my kayak.(as sure as i would have been with a big gun a 200 ft of trial line) And sure enough it DID!!!!

Bill, I know what you are trying to get across, and I completely agree with the idea of responsible shooting.

Peace out----

Brandon, I can't quarrel with anything you said, and I apologize if my previous post seemed rather critical.

I guess that where I was coming from was that this was a thread on guns for newbies. While you know what you are doing, I was just afraid that newbies would get the impression that they could get by with a 75 cm gun with line tied to gun and expect to shoot big fish without losing the gun and the fish. I don't think that is realistic for most beginners, or even for me.

[PV_Spearo]

YA, that was sorta stupid of me to say.

OK< SCRATCH THAT GUYS. Reels and trail lines are a NECESSITY for WSB, even in the kelp.

Listen to Bill, he knows what he is doing, and has been doing it a long time, much longer than I.

[So Cal Divin]

What would I do with out you guys ?

So a 100 cm euro railgun for reef diving.

A Riffe Metal Tech 4S (56") for open water and game fish like yt and wsb.
It can also be had with an enclosed track.
Can someone explain what an enclosed track is and it's pros/ cons ?
Is it the same idea as a railgun ?
And eventually a Wong Carbon Hybrid 60" to drool on and baptise with salt water.

Thanks for your time.
Happy hunting,

Jeff