Enclosed Track Question

[ddonnell]

So I am about to order a new gun that will be my go-to gun for Mexico/bluewater/good vis kelp. I want it to shoot 3/8" for the bigger groupers I get into, but with 3/8" shafts so pricey and general lack of product out there, I'd like it to shoot 5/16" for everything else.

So here is my question: Whats the feasibility to make it a 3/8" enclosed track, but still be able to shoot the more available 5/16"? There is just a 1/16" difference between the two but will it make a noticeable difference?

I have heard good things about FL freediver's 8mm spring steel shafts, how resistant are they to bending?

[greekdiver]

You don't need 3/8 shaft for grouper. You will need so much mass and it wont be fun swinging that around the reef. And more time to load more bands. I recently came back from Baja, and I felt I could have taken anything on the reef with my two banded wood gun shooting a 7.5mm Rob Allen shaft.

[phil herranen]

Originally Posted by ddonnell

So I am about to order a new gun that will be my go-to gun for Mexico/bluewater/good vis kelp. I want it to shoot 3/8" for the bigger groupers I get into, but with 3/8" shafts so pricey and general lack of product out there, I'd like it to shoot 5/16" for everything else.

So here is my question: Whats the feasibility to make it a 3/8" enclosed track, but still be able to shoot the more available 5/16"? There is just a 1/16" difference between the two but will it make a noticeable difference?

I have heard good things about FL freediver's 8mm spring steel shafts, how resistant are they to bending?

its a good idea to go with the 3/8" for grouper the cable shooting line sucks a lot of range and power out of a 5/16 shaft . i shot a nice black last month with a 5/16 with cable and only got about 10"-12" penetration ,it was a 4 band 65" gun . who is making the gun? if you use uhmw tracks you can fit a 5/16 and 3/8" track to the same gun and just change tracks. the problem with using a 5/16" shaft in a 3/8" track is the fins dont stick up as fat so its hard to put more than one band on per tab
phil

[ddonnell]

Thanks for the replies. It will be a 155cm (61") midhandle from ulusub. I think that 3/8 is definitely needed for the size grouper I will be getting into. Stuck a shaft into a large model grouper and barely penetrated, did not land it, never going to lose a fish that big again, felt like shit for weeks. Shot a 5/16" 55" shaft with 3 9/16" bands cut tight. Not even close to adequate. I'll talk to Jon about uhmw tracks..

[greekdiver]

Originally Posted by ddonnell

Thanks for the replies. It will be a 155cm (61") midhandle from ulusub. I think that 3/8 is definitely needed for the size grouper I will be getting into. Stuck a shaft into a large model grouper and barely penetrated, did not land it, never going to lose a fish that big again, felt like shit for weeks. Shot a 5/16" 55" shaft with 3 9/16" bands cut tight. Not even close to adequate. I'll talk to Jon about uhmw tracks..

How far away from tip of gun, and how big?

[ddonnell]

Originally Posted by greekdiver

How far away from tip of gun, and how big?

6-8 ft away max and the grouper was easily 70 probably close to 80. Hit lower shoulder with great placement and just absolutely destroyed my shaft.

[phil herranen]

Originally Posted by ddonnell

Thanks for the replies. It will be a 155cm (61") midhandle from ulusub. I think that 3/8 is definitely needed for the size grouper I will be getting into. Stuck a shaft into a large model grouper and barely penetrated, did not land it, never going to lose a fish that big again, felt like shit for weeks. Shot a 5/16" 55" shaft with 3 9/16" bands cut tight. Not even close to adequate. I'll talk to Jon about uhmw tracks..

i would ask jon first and see if the gun has the mass to do it. a 3/8 shaft with cable needs at least 5 bands to work right 6 is better.with 4 bands it will be very slugish and you will be worse off than if you just used a 5/16" with 4 bands. and a gun (unrigged) needs a minimum of 3# per band to manage recoil.
phil

[cancunspearo]

phil you are saying you need minimum 3 pounds per band? 16mm band or 14mm?

[phil herranen]

Originally Posted by cancunspearo

phil you are saying you need minimum 3 pounds per band? 16mm band or 14mm?

not sure of the conversion but 3# for each 9/16" band, more weight is better for accuracy. you can go a little lighter on a rear handle
phil

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by ddonnell

So here is my question: Whats the feasibility to make it a 3/8" enclosed track, but still be able to shoot the more available 5/16"? There is just a 1/16" difference between the two but will it make a noticeable difference?

I'll stay out of all the other stuff about what is required to shoot grouper and just confine myself to that single issue.

My Wong Magnum hybrid has a track cut for 5/16", but I use a 9/32" shaft. It works just fine. And as near as I can tell, it penetrates as least as well as a 5/16". It lighter, but it starts out faster, and it lets me shoot with one hand.

[greekdiver]

Originally Posted by ddonnell

6-8 ft away max and the grouper was easily 70 probably close to 80. Hit lower shoulder with great placement and just absolutely destroyed my shaft.

A 120 railgun without tight bands would have passed through that fish at that distance. I do not think 3/8 is the answer. You will hate your gun with a shaft like that on the reef. I respectfully disagree with the Phil's advice.

[zootielolo]

I think what phil was saying is that if your gonna shoot ss cable, the 3/8 shaft is a much better choice because while the 5/16 will have the speed initially, the 3/8 shaft will have the inertia to carry cable and still be able to penetrate at a distance. At 6 to 8 feet, I'm not sure what the 'punch' difference between the two shaft diameters would beif using cable, phil and others would have a better answer for you. But I will say that the ballasting between a correctly ballasted 5/16 shaft and a correctly ballasted 3/8 gun of the same length is not going to be a huge difference in the water. I would rather take the extra care to make sure my shot counts and know that I could shoot a fish at say 14 or 18 feet if I saw one.

[phil herranen]

Originally Posted by greekdiver

A 120 railgun without tight bands would have passed through that fish at that distance. I do not think 3/8 is the answer. You will hate your gun with a shaft like that on the reef. I respectfully disagree with the Phil's advice.

When most people get guns to shoot grouper in baja they are normaly talking about fish over 200#
You are corect about a little 60# to 80# fish ,a 5/16" shaft would be fine . I have spent a lot of time in baja in the last 20 years and the fish there are big and break gear .I have lost count of how many guys have taken shots at a 200# gulfy or b tail with a euro and a single ra float and never see the fish or gear again . All the guys I know that spend a lot of time or live in baja all use large guns rigged with cable with a 5/16" or 3/8" shaft , looseing a very large fish becuse you want to use undersized gear is inexcusable
Phil

[baja haha]

[quote=phil herranen;

....the fish there are big and break gear .I have lost count of how many guys have taken shots at a 200# gulfy or b tail with a euro and a single ra float and never see the fish or gear again . All the guys I know that spend a lot of time or live in baja all use large guns rigged with cable with a 5/16" or 3/8" shaft , looseing a very large fish becuse you want to use undersized gear is inexcusable

Phil[/QUOTE]

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Great advice!

SDM

[Wishihadgills]

The the other option would be to go to something like the new riffe 11/64 shaft. Its right in between 5/16 and 3/8 and may solve your problem.