just dive

[Tvillarino]

I dont understand you guys?

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally posted by Tvillarino
I dont understand you guys?

Its unfortunate, but I don't think its hard to understand. If Great White (whatever his real name is) had been subtle enough to push his place of employment and the brand of gun he sells with that one announcement in its own thread, then no one would have thought a thing of it. But it was so blatant to insert the same plug in every active California thread that people just had to call him on it. I suppose that in the best of all possible worlds a board moderator would have called him on it, but since the board doesn't have any prohibition on commercial announcements by those with financial interests (at least as far as I know) then what we witnessed was just an example of self-policing of the more egregious cases.

His revealing that he is a buddy of Sask just pins the tail on the donkey. Sask complained that there was too much mention of Wong guns, presumably because the parents of his girlfriend make another brand and don't think anyone should compete with them. Now this guy comes along with a clumsy attempt to back him up.

Its sad that a big company with large volume of production, lots of international advertising, and a network of dealers around the world should feel threatened by one-man shops like Wong and Merlo and Rick Bettua (Aimrite rail guns). Daryl Wong works five day per week as a dentist, and Scott Merlo works full time as an operating room assistant for orthopedic surgeons. Rick Bettua is a Master Chief Petty Officer in the US Navy. Their combined production of guns is hardly a pimple on the ass of the large company with a full time work force turning out guns. But whether or not the big company's concern is warranted, it isn't being helped by surrogates like Sask and Great White. Notice how the efforts by each of them have only served to multiply mention of Wong guns.

They need to be more subtle, and yes, the pissing contest and personal threats need to end now that everyone has had fun.

[Bill McIntyre]

If anyone is confused with the demise of billmac22 and his replacement by user name Bill McIntyre, I thought that a thread about understanding would be as good a place as any to explain it.

When I first signed up, I looked at all the user names posting and must have made the assumption that I had to have a code name, so I just used the first portion of one of my email addresses. Since then, it has become apparent that some subscribers like Chad Carney and others simply use their real names as user names. Since I don't like all the anonymity and sign posts with my full name anyway, I asked Scott if he could change my user name and he was kind enough to do so as soon as he recovered from yesterday's 40th birthday party.

Thanks Scott.

[Peter R.]

Originally posted by Tvillarino
I dont understand you guys?

A lot of it is some guys just having a bit of fun, we're often a bunch of wise-asses, but with every spearo I've met in person, I'm struck by what generous, friendly and stand-up guys they are. Perhaps we're a bit on edge because there are no gamefish around? And everyone did start off rather mildly with Great White.
Maybe it's the name? What spearo is going to like a Great White! Or maybe Great White was just reaping some scuba-shop-guy karma. Most of us here on the California forum are freedivers. We use specialized, highly personal equipment that we like finely honed because all we do takes place in under 2:00 minutes. People that work in scuba shops just don't get it. I can't tell you the number of times in dive shops I've gotten condenscending attitudes and stupid advice about freediving (something I do and they don't) like this: "what you really need is this here 9mm Polar Bear dive suit and these open heel split fins and this JBL and you're set!" I don't even frequent them much anymore... except BCS.

[imuphere]

Very true!

I'm fairly new to the sport, but I completely agree. BTW This board once a while gets to be a little dead at times when there is no "fun" involved. Anyways this happens with any online board that involves men and sports.

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally posted by Carraig
People that work in scuba shops just don't get it. I can't tell you the number of times in dive shops I've gotten condenscending attitudes and stupid advice about freediving (something I do and they don't) like this: "what you really need is this here 9mm Polar Bear dive suit and these open heel split fins and this JBL and you're set!" I don't even frequent them much anymore... except BCS.

I agree that Beach Cities Scuba has a much better selection of freedive gear than most, although I'm not certain that most guys working there do a hell of a lot of freediving.

And of course there is the usual bias based on what they sell. I have overheard Osam telling people that Wong guns are absolute trash. I'm sure its only coincidental that he sells Riffe and that the Riffes literally hate Wong for having the temerity to compete, even if its just one gun at a time.

[Chicken Patty]

Originally posted by Bill McIntyre
I agree that Beach Cities Scuba has a much better selection of freedive gear than most, although I'm not certain that most guys working there do a hell of a lot of freediving.

And of course there is the usual bias based on what they sell. I have overheard Osam telling people that Wong guns are absolute trash. I'm sure its only coincidental that he sells Riffe and that the Riffes literally hate Wong for having the temerity to compete, even if its just one gun at a time.

I cant beleive a big company like riffe would be hostile towards a competitor that doesnt even make guns for a living and makes them one at a time. In my opinion they should put more effort into their products instead of petty little feuds with a competitor.

[imuphere]

Bill, I had the same feeling there. I didn't want to say much, but felt they were pushing Riffe's pretty hard considering they have at least 20 of them (probably more). If Riffe's are your thing than that's your place to go. When I mentioned Rabitechs he didn't say a thing. Oh well he's just trying to run a business I guess.

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally posted by imuphere
Very true!

I'm fairly new to the sport, but I completely agree. BTW This board once a while gets to be a little dead at times when there is no "fun" involved. Anyways this happens with any online board that involves men and sports.

Its probably true, but I still lament it that the "fun" has to happen. It detracts from the potential value of the information and camaraderie that we could get out of the relationship.

Don't get me wrong- I'm part of the problem so I can't cast the first stone. But while I do like many things about this board, one thing I prefer about the Freedivelist is that there is a code of civility enforced. You can disagree, but you can't attack the other guy's character or call him names. A lot of stuff on this California forum in the last couple of days would get the poster suspended from the FDL for some period the first time, and then bounced for good if he did it again.

And my ventures into politics here on the Off Topic forum have made me appreciate the ban on politics at the FDL. No one cares more deeply about politics than I do, and if I see others discussing it then I will certainly jump in to "set them straight." But if its banned altogether, then I don't have to set anyone straight, and they don't have to set me straight. And who knows- if we had not learned that the other guy was an asshole by arguing politics with him on the board, then we might have met and been bound by are common love of diving before we got into politics. Once we find out too much about each other's core values, its too late.

I know I can't change the rules here and force everyone to be civil, but I can beg all of us to be as civil as possible without being forced to do so.

[imuphere]

Why doesn't everyone read this and then everything will be OK.
Here it is:

http://www.fullcirc.com/community/avoidingconflict.htm

Here's a sneak peak for all those that don't want to read the whole article.

Avoiding Online Misunderstandings

Avoiding Online Conflict
By Mihaela Moussou, with Nancy White, last updated 5/04

Diverse opinions are critical to constructive dialog. Diversity enriches a group. But there is a line between constructive critical thinking and behavior which demeans individuals and potentially destroys communities. It is a fine line with no obvious answer for a facilitator. The goal of this piece is to think about how to support diverse and divergent thinking while reducing the likelihood of personal conflict and group destruction. And this conflict often arises due to misunderstanding. So it is about conflict beteen people, not between ideas. This is an important distinction!

Before we discuss how to avoid online conflict, there are five key attributes of online communication to take into consideration:

Lack of physical communication cues - We cannot see or hear the huge range of non-verbal cues we use during the course of conversation to discern if our audience is understanding, agreeing, disagreeing, getting uncomfortable or opening up. In cyberspace, we must explicitly ask for this information.

Potential impersonality of the medium (distance) - Sometimes, when communicating online people may lose some of their inhibitions and say things they would not say offline. Social norms are less clear and more open to individual interpretation. Setting norms that we agree to use together can control this loss of inhibition.

Asynchronicity affects the way we experience and feel about messages - When you have time to think about your response, you may be more thoughtful or you may let issues build up and get blown out of proportion. In online interactions, each of us may interpret periods of silence very differently. These subtle, unspoken issues can cloud communication.

Public vs. private spaces and perceptions - People have different tolerances of what they think should be "public" or "private." These differences need to be taken into account when choosing to deal with issues in public and/or private spaces.

Limitations of writing and reading - We are not all poets and most of us lead busy lives. Our inattention to detail in writing and our speed reading through topics can lead to misinterpretations. Be thorough. Be explicit