Break Away Tips

[TangoMike]

Any of you have experience with break aways.

[Bill McIntyre]

Are you referring to what we generally call slip tips on the left coast? If so, they are all I use. What do you want to know about them?

The photo below shows three different brands I own. From left to right, its a Mori tip rigged with spectra, an Aimrite tip rigged with cable, and a Kitto slim tip rigged with spectra.

[SpearingFish]

Originally Posted by Bill McIntyre

The photo below shows three different brands I own. From left to right, its a Mori tip rigged with spectra, an Aimrite tip rigged with cable, and a Kitto slim tip rigged with spectra.

What tip is your favourite?

[Red Tide]

Hey Bill,

Of the three tips you have shown.......Which one is your favorite???

G.R.

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by Red Tide

Hey Bill,

Of the three tips you have shown.......Which one is your favorite???

G.R.

That's a tough one. For quite a while it was the Aimrite tip. But then I got enamoured with spectra because it avoids kinking problems and may reduce drag. I was using the Mori tip on a 5/16" shaft but lost the gun that the tip was on and have not replaced the tip because I've been using 9/32" shafts and I feel the Mori tip is too heavy for the thin shafts. In fact I don't know if he even makes a 6 mm adapter for it.

Which leaves me using the Kitto tip presently. It uses spectra so I don't have the hastle of cable, its made of 5/16" stock so its nice and trim, and it works for me.

I think it drives Daryl and Rick nuts that I like spectra, and they tell me of guys wasting expensive trips to shoot big tuna, only to lose them due to the spectra cutting on a gill cover or some such thing. I'll keep that in mind if my wife ever decides I should spend my limted travel budget on a trip to Costa Rica for tuna rather than cycling in France with her, but I don't think white sea bass or yellowtail are a threat to spectra. And in fact I think that spectra may even save a white sea bass that is gut shot because it doesn't cut the soft flesh like cable does.

Also, its not as if spectra is easy to cut anyway. One time I was sawing on a thick bundle of kelp trying to get a fish out and felt something a bit funny. It turned out I was trying to cut my spectra, but I barely nicked it.

When Daryl and Rick first started trying slip tips years ago, they were using the Kitto tips, and they said that they actually had big ulua snap some tips where the replaceable point screws onto the body of the tip, so that's one reason why they started making their own Aimrite tip. Again, I wish I had that ulua problem, but no fish I've shot in SoCal has managed to break a tip.

One more thing, and then I will have said everything I know about these tips. The Aimrite, and the larger Alexander, are designed so that the end of the adapter bottoms out in the hole in the tip, absorbing the force if you shoot rocks. The Kitto tip absorbs the force where the rear skirt of the tip rests on the shoulder of the adapter. A friend of mine shot a rock and his first reaction was that he would just have to replace the screw-on point. Then he noticed that the rear end of the tip was blown out where it sat on the adapter, so he needed an whole new tip.

This is not much of a problem for me because I don't shoot at calicos or halibut that may have rocks behind them. But if you are shooting at fish like that, or maybe grouper and snapper, then its something to think about.

If I had my druthers, I'd use an Aimrite tip with spectra. It, like the Kitto, is made from 5/16" stock, and it doesn't have the rock problem. But of course the design doesn't permit use of spectra.

[calicojack]

I too am interested in hearing the pros and cons of different slip tips. I hope that everyone with an opinion chimes in!!

[Bill McIntyre]

It occurs to me that I only compared the three tips that I originally showed, but I do have one more brand on one of my guns, and in fact its the gun I most often use. Plamen Kolev, a guy who lives down in San Diego, is also making a spectra-rigged tip. It has a screw on point like the Kitto, and is also made from 5/16" stock. It is about the same price as the Kitto too, so its a lot cheaper than an Aimrite.

You can get it with tri-cut or pencil points. I've shot just one yellowtail and one white sea bass with it, but its working OK so far.

[IyaDiver]

I currently use Riffe Ice Pick type slip tip, a pencil point type. Like Bill's 1st and 2nd slip tip on the photo.

Once I borrowed an Alexander Tri Cut slip tip from a friend but I don't like the way a tri-cut open up the wound. Very similiar flesh damage to JBL detachable Tri Cut spearhead.

Pencil point requires more power for the same penetration compared to a sharp tri cut but since my target fish the Dog Tooth Tuna and Spanish Mackerel which do not have scales or tough skin like Yellowfin Tuna or Snappers, I personally like slip tip with pencil point. Since only the Riffe is available in my country, I have not tested others...except that Tri Cut Alexander slip tip.



Bill,

I am beggining to hate Kevlar. I used a 1000lbs type on my reel. It seems Kevlar does not like sudden/jerky shock loading and many senior hunter friends of mine told me the same. When given a sudden shock, Kevlar 1000# will snap much less than 1000# load and a knot will further decrease that strength. I think Fred once explained the same. Spectra is another aramid type fiber, how's ur experience with its durability when applied a sudden shock load ? Thanks.

IYA

[Bill McIntyre]

IYA,

I have had no problems with spectra and shock loads, but then I'm sure mine has not been put to the severe tests that your's has with tuna and big spanish mackerel.

Changing the subject a bit, it occurs to me that some explanation may be in order. I have spectra on my reels, but it is made from filaments of spectra with a dacron sheath and cannot be spliced because its not hollow. The spectra used on slip tips is hollow, like poly ski rope, and it is spliced by sticking the end back into the core so that its held by the "Chinese finger" principle.

[deadend]

Originally Posted by IyaDiver

I
I am beggining to hate Kevlar. I used a 1000lbs type on my reel. It seems Kevlar does not like sudden/jerky shock loading and many senior hunter friends of mine told me the same. When given a sudden shock, Kevlar 1000# will snap much less than 1000# load and a knot will further decrease that strength. I think Fred once explained the same. Spectra is another aramid type fiber, how's ur experience with its durability when applied a sudden shock load ? Thanks.

IYA

I haven't used kevlar much for spearfishing but I have used plenty of it and other aramid non-stretch cords in climbing and rigging applications including destructive testing and dynamometer involved testing.

I've found like you that this stuff will not handle a shock load very well. Whatever knot you put into it reduces it's strength by standard knot #'s, however because of the nature of the fibers some are virtually unknotable and some cut into themselves fairly easily inducing premature failure. The cords normally won't break at less than their rated tensile strength but a shock load will fairly easily have a multiplication of force that will surpass the tensile of the material. F=MA and I've seen some pretty insignificant looking situations put into a test phase and destruct readily. The test results made me trash some of the rigging gear I had and go back to polyester/nylon stuff for anything that would potentially see a shock multiplication factor greater than .2.

[IyaDiver]

Bill,

Many thanks for the info. I can never splice ropes/lines..... ha ha ha. It's just too delicate a work for me.


DeadEnd,

WOW....that is great REAL info....
Me learning that Kevlar can't handle shock load caused me to loose my biggest dream fishes ( 2 of them )..... expensive lesson indeed.... . I am still using the Kevlar but I rigged in such a way that I don't introduce it to anymore shock loading.


IYA

[TangoMike]

Originally Posted by Bill McIntyre

Are you referring to what we generally call slip tips on the left coast? If so, they are all I use. What do you want to know about them?

The photo below shows three different brands I own. From left to right, its a Mori tip rigged with spectra, an Aimrite tip rigged with cable, and a Kitto slim tip rigged with spectra.

I haven't used one yet and haven't dived with anyone who does use them. The advantages I see are less damage to the fish and an easier time removing the fish from the spear.

I can see where these would be great on the left coast where you are shooting in the kelp beds but what about here on the right coast where groupers head for their holes?

Any Florida users?

[IyaDiver]

Tango,

Slip tip since it is detachable, it does not "usually" bend a shaft. I said usually because depending on fish size and speed, 3/8" shaft with slip tip can bend too at times.

Since slip tip is detachable, the shaft can not help to pry open further flesh damage, compared to non-detachable spearhead which allows the entire shaft length to act as a crow bar.

Less damage to the fish means more fish landed. Those died of wound is a waste.

Slip tip is NOT easy to remove from a fish. At times I have to cut my slip tip cable just to remove it from a fish, usually when the penetration path is full of hard bones or the sort. The easiest to remove from a fish is hawaiian or tahitian shaft configuration. If you shoot a decent size grouper in the head with a slip tip, most likely you must "autopsy" that grouper to remove the slip tip, if it ever get stuck in the head's bone.

If I go for quality target, I use slip tip. If I want quantity, I use my hawaiian shaft. If your gun is not of decent power level, forget a slip tip.

If I shoot a big grouper which can holed up, I rather use 5/16" Hawaiian shaft. I choose 5/16" over 9/32" due to better mass/weight. Any detachable spearhead is not the best choice for "hole-up" situation. The hawaiian shaft will give you advantage ( even though a big grouper will bend it ) because the grouper can not hole-up deeper with the shaft in its meat. Sometimes if the hole is not as wide as the length of your shaft, the shaft will do wonders preventing it from turning 180 degrees away from you.

5/16" Hawaiian shaft is also much stronger than 5/16" shaft with 6mm thread or even 3/8" shaft with 6mm thread. 6mm thread typical of JBL shaft to install speartip on shaft. It will break at the threading, not the shaft. Hawaiian shaft have no threading to break. Yes, the flopper can be ruined to certain extend but the shaft usually get bent more.

A detachable head can sometimes allow the grouper into holed up position you find impossible to retrieve.

There are also breakaway speartip like the JBL Tri Cut or Rock Point and it is not a slip tip.

Good luck choosing....

IYA

[deadend]

Iya- some of the hollow braid stuff like on the slip tips is extremely easy to splice with a locking brummell splice. Anyone can do it with hardly no tools. The double braids and kernmantles are a bitch to splice though and take a few tools to do correctly. I would rather pay the 30$ to have my climbing lines spliced than do it myself.

[1shot]

First post so take it easy on me but all I have experience with is the Aimrite. It's been extremely reliable and I like it's slim shape/balance so no reason to change.

I heard good things about the Kitto too but I tend to stick with what works for me.