Octos confusion

[Christof]

Okay, as some of you know, I am jumping back into tank diving after a 20 yr Freediving hiatus.... This new gear confuses the shit out of me... Back when i dove with tanks, you had your regulator, your BC (Lloyd Bridges style.. LOL) and your tank... Now everyone uses computers, Octos, etc... Here is my dilemma... If an Octos is for an emergency, it should be dependable, right? So if they are dependable enough for emergencies, then why the hell are they so cheap, and why not just use the same thing for your primary reg also and save $500+ bucks??
What about spare air? They are pretty cool, and I was thinking that they would be just the ticket for 60-80 ft freedives for Bugs, then if you need a little booster breath, there you go... Thoughts on all of this??

Christof

[Megabeast]

Originally Posted by Christof

Okay, as some of you know, I am jumping back into tank diving after a 20 yr Freediving hiatus.... This new gear confuses the shit out of me... Back when i dove with tanks, you had your regulator, your BC (Lloyd Bridges style.. LOL) and your tank... Now everyone uses computers, Octos, etc... Here is my dilemma... If an Octos is for an emergency, it should be dependable, right? So if they are dependable enough for emergencies, then why the hell are they so cheap, and why not just use the same thing for your primary reg also and save $500+ bucks??
What about spare air? They are pretty cool, and I was thinking that they would be just the ticket for 60-80 ft freedives for Bugs, then if you need a little booster breath, there you go... Thoughts on all of this??

Christof

1. Octos (in the 99$ range) generally breath like crap compared to a primary at depth, unless you get something with the same quality as your primary or an SS1/Air2. There are supposed to be cheap, NOT free flow and work when they are called upon. Your octo is for you anyway, the panicked diver always gets your primary 2nd stage.
If you want my opinion, get an octo/inflator combo. They are worth it for a slew of reasons that I could write a page about.

2. Spare Airs aren't cool. The regulator on the tank is... well... pretty bad. If they made the regulator more dependable/corrosion resistant/breathe better it would be a great value for the price. Don't use it for freediving, I asked BAB (a.k.a Spearo_Fla) about this some months ago and he had a very good reason for not doing it, I just don't remember what it was. BTW I own one and it needs to be serviced about every 4 months to keep it in working order. So now it sits in the corner, out of service and my 30 cuft. pony with Atomic Z1 replaced it with an exponetial increase in performace.

[kaborkian]

OK...picture this. You get a spare-air. You free-dive to 80 feet. OMG, I need a breath, and now, so you do it. The spare air lasts maybe a couple of breaths at 80 ft, so now you have a fresh lungfull of air, which btw is 80 / 33 + 1 (about 3.5) times the volume of air you have at the surface. Now, with a major lungful of air in your lungs and none more to breath, you have an ascent to make based on scuba, not freedive, and it should take you 60 feet per minute to ascend plus 3 minutes at 15 fsw (but you're all out of compressed air to breath). I realize that's a guideline that many break on regular occasions, but the point is, you should NEVER take a breath of compressed air while freediving without just plain switching to scuba and making a controlled ascent, complete with a 15' safety stop.

If you're scuba all the way, the spare air doesn't hold enough volume to add any real margin of safety.

[Capt.Gene]

Originally Posted by kaborkian

OK...picture this. You get a spare-air. You free-dive to 80 feet. OMG, I need a breath, and now, so you do it. The spare air lasts maybe a couple of breaths at 80 ft, so now you have a fresh lungfull of air, which btw is 80 / 33 + 1 (about 3.5) times the volume of air you have at the surface. Now, with a major lungful of air in your lungs and none more to breath, you have an ascent to make based on scuba, not freedive, and it should take you 60 feet per minute to ascend plus 3 minutes at 15 fsw (but you're all out of compressed air to breath). I realize that's a guideline that many break on regular occasions, but the point is, you should NEVER take a breath of compressed air while freediving without just plain switching to scuba and making a controlled ascent, complete with a 15' safety stop.

If you're scuba all the way, the spare air doesn't hold enough volume to add any real margin of safety.

Spare Air's best use might be to get from the house to the car in a real bad summer thunderstorm.

[Corpsman]

I heard someone on this board call spare air 8 breaths to death.

[ghrousseau]

You can get a good quality Octo from Zeagle or Dive Rite for $79-$120. The only difference between the octo and the primary 2nd stage would be a flow control adjustment. My octos perform allmost as well as the primaries. Scubapro, Apecks, Dive Rite, Zeagle, and US Divers are all good brands(I have good experience with Dive Rite RG1200, Scubapro Mark 10, Mark 20's and G250 G200 2nds) BC's have changed a lot since you have been out of the water. I learned like you on a horse collar BC. I now dive a SS backplate and a simple harness with a Halcyon rear inflation bladder (DIR Configuration.) I would suggest you do some research and get some feedback from other divers on this board. There is a lot of bullshit gear being pushed by some of the diveshops that looks real neat but is basically high tech crap with a bunch of "danglies" handing off of it. Stick to the basics and quality manufactured gear. Any BC from Zeagle will serve you well and there are a lot of guys on this board who use his gear. Spare Air is spare death. If you want redundancy you can get a H-Valve on your tank and two first stages off of the H-Valve or you can get a 12 to 19CF "pony bottle" with a separate 1st stage and 2nd stage. 20 cf will give you time up from 130ft plus a safety stop (this is strickly in the NDL area.) Spare Air will only make sure you get an AGE on the way up and that they find your body floating.

Also, computers have advanced a long way. My personal preference is wrist mounted. I like Uwatec(Scubapro), Dive Rite, Sunuto, and a few others. Stay away from the air integrated. They offer another failure point and soak you in the pocketbook.


Good luck and welcome back to the world of bubbles

[Christof]

Thanks as usual for all the help folks..... Good info for sure... I looked over and put some $$ down on a Mares Nemo.... Nice watch.. LOL!!!! It looks like it will do fine, and the shop guy dropped the price down to about $100 less than other retail....
I think I will like the Zeagle I bought.. Comfortable, and still pretty simple. Back floater design looks nice too.... Cant wait to try it out.
I was a bit suspicious of the spare-air, but the shop guy thought they were the cats meow.... I thought they were too expensive.... I would have to agree with the Freediving comments, I should know better than to try to push my limit in that fashion....
Thanks again!!

Christof