How to Kill a Jewfish

[Tedbudion]

SoCal Fisher: it's a relevant question; very few people know that the 140 nautical miles distance of coast with Rio right in the middle it's on an East-West axis, contrary to the regular SW-NE of our Southeast coast. insofar as that here, we refer to our West-facing points as South Points

The jewfish earlier posted was caught at Ilha Grande, now illegal to spearfish (both the place and fish), not that deters anybody.

Here's the present Brazilian record. It weighed 723 lb. caught at Jaguanum, 70 miles West of Rio.

[BwanaR]

I stoned my first one....made me think they were a piece of cake. Only thing was he was about 40#'s. The next only took 2 shafts, he was around 120#'s (guestimated). Still not a big deal....SOOOO.....when we needed fish for a big fish fry I volunteered to supply a jewfish. A 390#er looked good so I decided to take that one. Five shafts later and a rope gaf used to drag it's still not dead ass out from under the ledge, we had dinner. Only problem was we couldn't haul it into the boat and had to drag it back to the dock.
I have a friend that use to Hawian sling quite a few of them back in Porta Rico and the Bahamas, he taught me the rope and gaf trick.

[Divin' fool]

Great stuff Ray....

[Ray Odor]

I thought all of you should see this so I posted it on this thread too.
Thunderball I like that "acctually". Have you "Actually" ever dove on rock piles, wrecks or ledges in the past five years? Our fish structures are covered with Goliaths and there is a distinct absence of Grouper, crabs,lobster and who knows what other species. Maybe that's why the other fish disapear, no small food left for them. Also, add this to your questionable "stomach content".
The last one I got from the Skyway Bridge had three dozen big Blue Crabs in its belly. Do you really think that's all guts in those big bellies?
I HAVE A SOLUTION!! Allow the taking of Jewfish. You must first sign a verification wavier, containing numbers to call, from the F.W.C stating that you will notify the F.W.C. on shore arrival, or shortly before, of the posession of said fish. The stomach will be cut on FWC arrival and the contents placed in a bag and small cooler with ice. This cooler will be taken by the FWC to the nearest Marine Research Facillity, after they estimate the total weight of said fish.
This is the best research idea of the century, we all need to participate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderball
Actually, that isn't correct. They don't eat the whole bottom up. They are opportunistic in their feeding behavior but not gluttonous. Stomach content analsysis from fish caught in Florida waters has shown them to feed on invertebrates (crabs and lobsters) as well as slower moving reef fishes. Not snapper and smaller grouper. Given the relatively high abundance of snapper and grunts, you would expect these fishes to make up a large part of their diet. But that's not the case. In fact, in one study, snapper and grouper were more abundant on sites occupied by GG. They not be selective in the diet, but they are restricted in what that can eat by what they can catch.

The fact is, there is a dearth of information about this species. For that reason, we can not expect any meaningful management plan for regulatory agencies, other than "ya can't shoot 'em."

__________________
Type in Google,Ray Odor

[SpearMax]

Originally Posted by Ray Odor

The fact is, there is a dearth of information about this species. For that reason, we can not expect any meaningful management plan for regulatory agencies, other than "ya can't shoot 'em."

Hey Ray and Thunderball,

Tell me this is not so.

The scientists do take sample goliath groupers from time to time and analyze what they are eating based on their stomach contents, don't they?

A species that has swung the extinction pendulum back so far as to be a potential big problem should be high on the scientific agenda.

How much work would it be to use statistical analysis and sampling theory for the scientists to take the statistically valid number of goliaths that would be representative of the entire estimated population? I bet the number would not be that great and the stomach contents would determine what is really going on.

I'd like to know if some scientists somewhere are already doing this or have already done it. Maybe this is just a dumb question on my part. Does anybody know?

[RichT]

Originally Posted by SpearMax

Hey Ray and Thunderball,

Tell me this is not so.

The scientists do take sample goliath groupers from time to time and analyze what they are eating based on their stomach contents, don't they?

A species that has swung the extinction pendulum back so far as to be a potential big problem should be high on the scientific agenda.

How much work would it be to use statistical analysis and sampling theory for the scientists to take the statistically valid number of goliaths that would be representative of the entire estimated population? I bet the number would not be that great and the stomach contents would determine what is really going on.

I'd like to know if some scientists somewhere are already doing this or have already done it. Maybe this is just a dumb question on my part. Does anybody know?

Tony,
There is a fair amount of information regarding GG but it is limited to geographical area. Mainly South-west Florida.
Regarding stomach contents, I think I remember it was somewhere around thirty animals.
I also seem to recall they were not that big as it would be very hard to control very large animals.
Analysis of the stomach contents of these animals primarily contained invertabrates, stingrays and crustaceans.
Would a larger animal change its diet?? I dont know the answer.
Most agree they are opportunistic feeders and will eat whatever is easiest to get.
More study needs to be done.IMO

Some answers can be found here.
http://www.gulfcouncil.org/Beta/GMFM...lSEDAR2004.pdf

[Ray Odor]

Just as I thought, Rich, not one of them left their desk and did a real survey.

[Divin' fool]

I'm no scientist.....but I know that EVERY ledge and wreck that I dive on the Gulf side is loaded with AGGRESSIVE Jewfish and EVERY wreck and most of the ledges on the East side have them too.
My last dive to a favorite wreck on the West side had at least 20 of them....some as big as Yugos.

My Question....Why are they protected???????

Gators used to be a protected species too....but they began to over-run the lakes and become a threat to humans. The answer was a controlled harvest.

I know of noone that has a problem with a controlled, income producing, scientific harvest of GG. Just my 2 cents.

[SpearMax]

Originally Posted by RichTaylor

Most agree they are opportunistic feeders and will eat whatever is easiest to get. More study needs to be done.IMO

Rich, I printed out that 25 page PDF report on GGs that you linked me to above and will read it cover to cover. Thanks!

[Thunderball]

Hmmm? Nantucket sleigh ride versus using a powerhead Which one would you pick?

by the way, I did a drift dive in Jupiter two weeks ago (near the hole in the wall) and we counted nearly 45 large GG's in the course of a 15min drift dive, cruising at about 6knots in 130fsw. We saw no blacks and no large snapper. It looked like a bunch of school buses parallel parked!

[inletsurf]

Originally Posted by SpearMax

Hey Ray and Thunderball,

Tell me this is not so.

The scientists do take sample goliath groupers from time to time and analyze what they are eating based on their stomach contents, don't they?

I talked to a FWC scientist this week who said that a lot of the jewfish studies are local to only one area, and only the stomach contents of juveniles are studied. That, to me, is a very incomplete data set. Much more attention is required by the FWC to establish better data than what we currently have.

[sawfish]

Sounds like the FL Jewfish problem is similar to the CA Mountain Lion problem. The do gooders and bunny huggers override legitimate studies and harvest recommendations, while the Jewfish and Mountain Lions continue to decimate the smaller species.

[DiverSpear]

They need reliable data. They want to discuss data without getting wet. I make it to the Gulf about 1-2 times/year and even I can tell there is an explosion in the population. On my last trip to the gulf we stopped in 60' to bounce a barge and there was more GG's than you could shake a stick at. Some were small but there was at least 8 of them that were the size of volkswagons. I remember it well because one decided I small enough to be considered a food source and chased me down without any fish on my stringer.

I could be wrong here but, it seems they are not taking into account that developers are destroying salt marshes which in my understanding is crucial to breeding and juvenilles. If they want the stocks to reach some magical number then they need to look at the big picture. They fail to realize that management starts at the begining of life not at the fish cleaning table. It's no different than managing game on land. In the mean time, put that load of concrete here.

At one point in time there had to be a predator that keep their numbers in check. What happen to them? Without the predator something has to fill the void, i.e. humans. Otherwise, the ocean will be overrun and the tree huggers will blame someone else for the lack of some other species that may have been decreased by the GG's.

[inletsurf]

I haven't read the recent FS mag article personally, but I was told that apparently the scientists at FSU who are helping with the jewfish studies made this chart that was in the magazine. The chart basically showed the jewfish density in areas offshore Florida, apparently Brevard county had "low to none". Can you believe that?

FWC, if you all are listening, I kindly ask you to visit Sebastian Inlet, north jetty, and either observe the local kids or jetty rats fight the resident 50-80 lb jewfish in 10 feet of water on spinning gear. If you have a snorkeling set, and the conditions allow, try snorkeling on the north side of the north jetty. You will most likely observe over 8 resident jewfish that were not there 5 years ago. This is just a jetty, EVERY wreck or anchored buoy off Sebastian has at least 10 big jewfish on them, and many of the big natural ledges has several resident jewfish.

Personally, I'd be happy to help the FWC study the jewfish off of Brevard by taking them to spots and doing what I can to get the correct data to the lawmakers so they can see for themselves.

[kitefisherman]

Cousteau's show last week didn't help matters much either. Fabian Cousteau remarked after coming up from a Keys wreck dive (in a preserve) that it was one of the few places in the world where you could dive with a herd of jewfish - almost like they were endangered or something. A female FSU scientist then commented that a hook and line catch & release fishery had developed for jewfish and that the survival rate for the released jewfish was very low. Sounded like she had an agenda to expand the no take zones. The sad thing is that the average citizen thinks that Cousteau and the lackeys that he puts on his show are credible. I'd like to see him have the balls to offer something other than just his bullshit propaganda designed to maximize his grants.