Nothing to do with diving, but former President Gerald Ford has died.

[rojodiablo]

He was 93 yrs old. He was the only unelected President of the United States. He got handed the remnants of the Vietnam war, and the internal war that was Civil rights. He could do nothing, with no backing from citizens, buisness or military. In the end, he went without much of a fight, just taking shot after shot on the chin. Gerald Ford simply filled a place in history. And he did it with enough grace to give the United States a little breathing room to quit bleeding, and allow us to move on to the next phase of our existance. For all you 20 yr olds, watch closely; another person will be put in this position. Not a leader, just someone in a position of leadership. So dive, enjoy yourselves. Just remember, the past seems to come around, time and again. Godspeed, to an unassuming president.

[aaron proffitt]

Here,here.Good post.

[SEATUX]

You forgot to mention that the FIRST thing he did ,(after Nixon resigned and made him president) was to give Nixon a full pardon, even tho Nixon had yet to be tried or convicted of anything, yet. If you were old enough to have lived thru that era you might understand why he had no backing and took some "on the chin"

[rojodiablo]

Originally Posted by SEATUX

You forgot to mention that the FIRST thing he did ,(after Nixon resigned and made him president) was to give Nixon a full pardon, even tho Nixon had yet to be tried or convicted of anything, yet. If you were old enough to have lived thru that era you might understand why he had no backing and took some "on the chin"

True I was only a child, and I totally agree he should have let Nixon get slammed full tilt. He should have never let Nixon off the hook. In his memoirs, he wrote about that. He knew he would be slammed either way, and decided to just let the guy go into the past, along with the war.

[f94gator]

Read an article today that said that, while it was extremely unpopular at the time, a recent poll showed that 60% feel that he made the right decision by pardoning Nixon, as it allowed the country to move past all the controversy.

[Wayward Son]

I was old enough to remember it, young enough to not understand it.

I think it was probably the better decision to make, but I also think that it's the single thing that cost him the next election & stuck us with Carter.

[SEATUX]

Originally Posted by f94gator

Read an article today that said that, while it was extremely unpopular at the time, a recent poll showed that 60% feel that he made the right decision by pardoning Nixon, as it allowed the country to move past all the controversy.

Sure, now 30+ years latter 60% think it was the right move; a lot of that 60% wasn’t even alive back then, they didn’t live thru what it was all about, haven’t got a clue except for what they read in history books. Isn’t it grand how the history books whitewash everything to make ex presidents look better than they were?
How about an analogy;
GW enjoys the highest % public support in history, immediately after the 911 attack. As time drags on public support wanes and conflict of interest questions arise from large sums of monies being diverted to Halliburton in the form of Iraq war costs. Then 60 minutes does a special documenting how this war was funded by shipping HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN CASH to Iraq, of which at least $9 billion has been “lost” and is unaccounted for, and many more billion have been squandered on contractors w/allegedly political ties to the administration. Information is leaked to the press that the CIA originally reported to GW there were no WMD in Iraq and Iraq had nothing to do with 911, But GW lied to America to further his agenda. Public support for GW is now at an all time low (actually even lower than it ever was for Nixon) during elections the public overturns republican control of both the House and Senate, and at least one bill is introduced to impeach the president. Several accusations are made of other wrong doings by the President.
So much for the facts, now for some not so far fetched “fiction”
An informant reveals information tying GW to a “kick back scheme” amongst his cronies involved in massive government war contracts, and incriminating Swiss bank accounts #information. As evidence incriminating the president’s personal involvement in the scheme for financial gain starts to escalate GW Resigns as president and basically tells America where to stick it. Dick Cheney’s first official act is to grant GW a full pardon; even though to date he hasn’t been tried or convicted of any crimes. After effectively robbing the United States blind for his and his cronies own financial gain (and putting the US in a financial straights) historians, 35years latter, write that the pardon allowed the country to heal and move past the controversy. And of course a pole shows that 60% of Americans think it was the right thing to do (many of which weren’t alive at the time ann haven’t a clue )

So how does that set with you?

[Bill McIntyre]

I had mixed feelings at the time, but I think I concluded that it was probably the best thing to end all the division and move on.

I've reluctantly come to a similar conclusion about Bush. One the one hand I'd like to see him impeached, and he has done so much more to deserve it than Clinton getting a blow job, but I'd rather that the Democrats try to get the business of the nation done instead of bringing government to a halt like the Republicans did.

One thing I couldn't help noticing in the stories about Ford- he went in the Navy in 1941 and came out a Lt. Commander in 1945. Like Bush 41, Kennedy, Bob Dole, and other future politicians of his generation, he stepped up to the plate. All the tough guys in this administration had other priorities when it came to putting their own asses on the line, and only became tough when it was time to send the kids of others.

[jackpine savage]

Ford did what few presidents today have the character to do, he put the nation before his own personal good. He new that by pardoning Nixon his career was as good as finished yet he also new that it was best for a very troubled and divided nation.

[elCajuna Grande]

So how does that set with you?

the history books won't matter much once the US is divided and reeducation introduced in the coming revolution...
you need to join a militia

[apnea_complex]

Originally Posted by SEATUX

a lot of that 60% wasn’t even alive back then,

Do you have proof of this? I mean, I really don't trust polls but I read one about a year ago which stated people the age of 45 yrs+ are the majority in political polls( which means, YES they were alive). Once again, this is probably wrong, but, since this is the internet and it is easy to offer an opinion like it is fact I just wanted to know your proof.

[f94gator]

Originally Posted by SEATUX

Dick Cheney’s first official act is to grant GW a full pardon; even though to date he hasn’t been tried or convicted of any crimes. After effectively robbing the United States blind for his and his cronies own financial gain (and putting the US in a financial straights) historians, 35 years latter, write that the pardon allowed the country to heal and move past the controversy. And of course a pole shows that 60% of Americans think it was the right thing to do (many of which weren’t alive at the time ann haven’t a clue )

So how does that set with you?

So it is your position that it is better that the country spend years wrapped up in the issue and hundreds of millions investigating and prosecuting him? Personally, I don't think it is.
Clinton was impeached. At the time, I thought it was a good thing. In retrospect, it accomplished nothing and took our attention off the real problemsWe'd have been better off if it had never happened. And I *****ing hate Clinton so it pains me to say that!

So once GW leaves office, would you rather expend energy be expending supporting the new president - and let's just assume it'll be a Democrat - and fixing the mess in Iraq, or would you rather see everyone focus on lynching him? And yes, that is a choice to be made. As long as people are thinking about GW's impeachment, they are NOT thinking about Iraq. 5 years later, when the investigation is done, and GW is or is not found guilty, (most likely not), nothing will have been accomplished except enabling the american public to think about something other than THAT administration's utter failure to 'fix' Iraq.

[f94gator]

Originally Posted by apnea_complex

Do you have proof of this? I mean, I really don't trust polls but I read one about a year ago which stated people the age of 45 yrs+ are the majority in political polls( which means, YES they were alive). Once again, this is probably wrong, but, since this is the internet and it is easy to offer an opinion like it is fact I just wanted to know your proof.

He doesn't have any. I'd have to go find the article to see if it even mentions the structure of the poll. It might have focused on older folks to make sure they got opinions of people that were alive at the time and 'have a clue'.

[Bill McIntyre]

Speaking of percentages, an article in this morning's LA Times says that only about 30% of today's population would have been old enough to vote in the election in which Carter beat Ford.

Its been interesting to hear all the interviews on NPR and PBS and read all the newspaper articles. It seems that many people who blasted Ford at the time for the Nixon pardon have changed their mind, and decided it was necessary in order for us to move on. Ford himself was quoted as saying he was spending about 25% of his time in that first month on Nixon related subjects, and he just needed to stop it so he could get some work done.

Inevitably, there were a couple of articles comparing Ford's management style with Bush's. Someone said that Ford was used to 25 years of negotiations in the House, and he was comfortable with being less knowledgeable than his advisors and unthreatened by strongly voiced disagreements. He was willing to let the guys with big egos fight it out and wanted to hear from everyone before making a decision.

One example was from Paul O'Neill, who was a senior official in Ford's budget office and then Bush's Treasury Secretary three decades later.

In one passage in the recent book by David Suskind, O'Neill recalled a meeting with Bush in the Oval Office in which he recounted to the president an economic conference he helped set up shortly after Ford took office, a forum featuring economists, business executives and labor leaders with widely differing views on fiscal policy.

"Ford was really good at the meeting," O'Neill recalled telling Bush. "He showed that he was attentive and really knowledgeable about all competing positions." Bush agreed to hold an economic conference of his own, but instead of opposing experts, attendees would almost universally be Bush supporters, and many were political donors. "It'll just be a lot of people reading from a script that says, 'I love the president,' " O'Neill told his staff when he saw the invitation list, according to Suskind's account. "Where, exactly, does that fit in the grand American ideal of free and honest inquiry?"

I've said it before, but I agree with f94gator about any attempt to impeach Bush. I'm sure I despise Bush at least as much as he despised Clinton and would dearly like to see him be held accountable, but we just can't afford it. Impeachement is a political process anyway, and after spending all that time and money, I doubt that he would finally be convicted.

However, I would like to see Congressional hearings to expose all the graft and waste of billions by favored companies profiteering from the war.

[SEATUX]

Originally Posted by apnea_complex

Do you have proof of this? I mean, I really don't trust polls but I read one about a year ago which stated people the age of 45 yrs+ are the majority in political polls( which means, YES they were alive). Once again, this is probably wrong, but, since this is the internet and it is easy to offer an opinion like it is fact I just wanted to know your proof.

I wasn’t offering up facts about how the poll was taken, who knows how it was done. But simply a lot of those offering up opinions today weren’t alive, or were too young to be aware, back when this all took place. You, for example, weren’t born yet, as with many others on this board, so I offered the analogy w/GW embezzling hundreds of Billions of dollars. Putting it into today’s perspective and Dick jumping in with a full pardon before anything can be resolved.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not anti Ford, but it looked like a cover up at the time. (Would it look like a cover up today in the scenario I painted of GW?) He should have at least waited till Nixon was officially accused of something, and possibly even let the trial begin to indicate the degree of evidence/guilt, then Pardon him. The way it is set up in this country no President will go to jail, the vice president (of the same party, same ticket) will pardon him, but there has to be some accountability. If not soon our government will resemble that of Mexico.

PS
Clinton’s crime was that of a blowjob in the oval office, not of the same magnitude I think.
(Let’s see jay walking VS drive by shootings)