2008 Spearboard Bitch Thread

[The Collector]

Tony, I can no longer sit on the sidelines for this show. I must commend you on what I think are misdirection skills rivaling David Copperfield. The real story of this tournament is the fact that so many parts of it appear, to an admitted outsider who did not attend the tournament, to have been a complete disaster.

How long did people wait in line to weigh fish?
How long did people wait for the results?
How accurate were the results?
After years of steady growth in attendance & sponsors, how did it go this year?
In the middle of this disaster, someone on YOUR boat was SHOT????????????

HOW THE HELL DO YOU RUN OUT OF PRIZES AT A $100K TABLE WITH HALF THE CONTESTANTS FROM PREVIOUS YEARS???????

I heard a rumor that DAVE CARMICHAEL stepped up when this happened and offered ADDITIONAL PRIZES from ARMOR BAGS for contestants? If this IS true (knowing Dave I imagine it is as he has got to be one of THE BEST tournament sponsors our sport has ever had) how is it I have not heard anything about it from you or your site??

How long did you wait to post the results?
How long did it take to even address the cheating stuff?

The fact that you have managed to ruin a great website can be left up to debate. You and your many employees and Kool-Aid drinkers may believe it is better.
However, the fact that you have single-handedly managed to destroy a tournament that was the favorite event of the year for many is no longer debatable.

You have managed to spin this into a story about how great you are for FINALLY pulling your head out of the sand and doing something about cheating, while at the same time deflecting criticism to other tournaments and even Doc.

There is only ONE reason why the OTHER website started.
There is only ONE reason Team Spearboard changed it’s name.
There is only ONE person ever nominated for removal from our club.
There is only ONE person with the ability to screw up the best tournament of the year.

There is no question that I do not like you Tony, but, it is not only your fault. I am also immensely frustrated that our community has allowed itself to be bought, coerced, and otherwise hoodwinked into believing that you might in fact be good for our sport.

To all the employees and Kool-Aid drinkers, importantly JFJF, how ‘bout you let Tony speak for himself.

[Bill McIntyre]

Originally Posted by The Collector

The fact that you have managed to ruin a great website can be left up to debate. You and your many employees and Kool-Aid drinkers may believe it is better.

I can't address any of your other points regarding the tournament because I wasn't there, but since you insist on taking an unrelated cheap shot about the site, I will respond.

I'm not an employee, but I drank the Kool-Aid and I do believe the site is better after many of the most disruptive people left. There is an improved atmosphere of civility. In particular, there were formerly moderators engaging in bashing people and starting trouble rather than fixing it. That is no longer the case.

For months after the new site was created, a large proportion of the posts were simply bashing Spearboard and Tony. I never see posts here bashing the other site.

Not all of us live in Florida and are privy to your private fights, but stuff like this

There is only ONE reason why the OTHER website started.
There is only ONE reason Team Spearboard changed it’s name.
There is only ONE person ever nominated for removal from our club.
There is only ONE person with the ability to screw up the best tournament of the year.

looks petty from a distance, and has no place in a discussion of the tournament.

If you have facts about the conduct of the tournament and suggestions for improvement, then state them. Please leave out all your personal animosity.

[The Collector]

Originally Posted by Bill McIntyre

If you have facts about the conduct of the tournament and suggestions for improvement, then state them. Please leave out all your personal animosity.

Facts? Here are some accounts either on this board or told to me:
3 1/2 hours sitting in the heat to wait for results?
The wrong guy anounced top freediver?
People giving up on the line to even weigh their fish in the first place?
Running out of prizes after boldly announcing $100k in prizes?

Suggestions for improvements:
Listen to all the people who ran the tournament before and for the first 2 years after you bought it!
Never shoot the tournament yourself, there is too much work to do, let alone the possibility that you may be involved in a SHOOTING incident.

I completely agree that the board is a better place for both cantankerous old men and Californians than it was in the past. I simply disagree that it is, therefore, better for all. This issue is not really relevant, I have somewhere else I can go.

My frustration is in the fact that Tony has managed to destroy something many of us enjoyed, while trying to sell himself as a hero.

[diverik]

Originally Posted by The Collector

In the middle of this disaster, someone on YOUR boat was SHOT????????????



There is only ONE reason why the OTHER website started.
There is only ONE reason Team Spearboard changed it’s name.
There is only ONE person ever nominated for removal from our club.
There is only ONE person with the ability to screw up the best tournament of the year.

. I am also immensely frustrated that our community has allowed itself to be bought, coerced, and otherwise hoodwinked into believing that you might in fact be good for our sport.

Since I was the one shot I hope you will let me speak since you quoted my accident. It was a novice shooter that shot me and Tony was in the water and no where around. So blame him if you must.

If you all didn't want things to change you shouldn't have sold the board and any rights you people think you had.

For all his shortcommings Tony is outspoken trying to fight for your rights even on the westcoast. He fights for all our rights to harvest fish.

I have a friend a commercial diver from Bradenton named Larry Borden. In my opinion he's one of the top three or four feeshafters and a pioneer of the Middle Grounds spearfishing. I don't expect you to know him. He tells me all the time how Spearfishing needs Tony someone with the money, time, and education to conduct a proper leagal fight for our rights instead of the," rabel rabel" that goes on today.

For everyone bashing the lie detector thing. I haven't herd the accused or their friends saying it's false. (and you know they would)

Didn't you see the usual Suspects," You arrest 3 guys on the same charge and observe them for the night . The one who accepts his fate and gets some sleep is your man.
Rick

[The Collector]

Originally Posted by diverik

Since I was the one shot I hope you will let me speak since you quoted my accident. It was a novice shooter that shot me and Tony was in the water and no where around. So blame him if you must.

You do not need my permission to speak. Tony shows poor judgment spending all day Saturday shooting fish on the east coast when he is supposed to be running the FORMERLY world's largest spearfishing tournament. Additionally, there becomes a point at which they are no longer refferred to as 'accidents'. I think a very good poll on the subject would be to ask how many people that have been on his boat would do it again?

Originally Posted by diverik

If you all didn't want things to change you shouldn't have sold the board and any rights you people think you had.

"You people" did not own the board, Scott did. Scott did what he thought was best and it made sense at the time. I could care less if the board dissolves or thrives, I am pissed that he destroyed a tournament that many, including myself, worked so hard on.

Originally Posted by diverik

For all his shortcommings Tony is outspoken trying to fight for your rights even on the westcoast. He fights for all our rights to harvest fish.

I'll leave this to Richt.

Originally Posted by diverik

For everyone bashing the lie detector thing. I haven't herd the accused or their friends saying it's false. (and you know they would)

I agree. Something had to be done. Using the lie detector thing as an excuse for the delay when it was really a result of lack of preperation and complete ineptitude in compiling scores to determine rankings is a flat out deception.

[KWspearClub]

I don't want to get involved with this situation but for research purposes, What is the name of that other site?

[Bottom Dweller]

.....

Originally Posted by diverik

Since I was the one shot I hope you will let me speak since you quoted my accident. It was a novice shooter that shot me and Tony was in the water and no where around. So blame him if you must.

Rick, I don't know you, I only know Tony and the strange things that regularly happen on his boat the "Enterprise". I am pretty sure that is all Mike was getting at. However, since we're talking about lie detector tests so much lately, would you care to take one to simply clear the air as to what some people might think?

If you all didn't want things to change you shouldn't have sold the board and any rights you people think you had.

"We" or however you are speaking of above did not have a choice as to the sale of Spearboard. Scott McPherson was the original owner of the board. I am sure he would not have sold it to Tony if he knew it was going to turn out the way it has.

For all his shortcommings Tony is outspoken trying to fight for your rights even on the westcoast. He fights for all our rights to harvest fish.

I remember a while back when the FRA got thrown under the bus due to not attending a meeting that was invitation only in southwest florida. Tony attended and put up a report. Then Denny and the FRA got thrown under the bus as usual for not being there. Well, I am just curious, but did Tony make it to any of he week long South Atlantic meetings a few weeks ago. I may be wrong but I do not believe so. I believe he was too busy trying to scramble to get the SBO together at the last minute. No one threw Tony under the bus for this.

I have a friend a commercial diver from Bradenton named Larry Borden. In my opinion he's one of the top three or four feeshafters and a pioneer of the Middle Grounds spearfishing. I don't expect you to know him. He tells me all the time how Spearfishing needs Tony someone with the money, time, and education to conduct a proper leagal fight for our rights instead of the," rabel rabel" that goes on today.

The "rabel rabel" that goes on today by the FRA seems to be doing a pretty good job last time I looked.

For everyone bashing the lie detector thing. I haven't herd the accused or their friends saying it's false. (and you know they would)

Didn't you see the usual Suspects," You arrest 3 guys on the same charge and observe them for the night . The one who accepts his fate and gets some sleep is your man.
Rick

[fishkillapro]

The only good reading on spearboard is this crap! I fisrt got on spearboard when I was in high school, and would purposely take computer classes so I could get all my work done and look at spearboard. Now the tournament, the board, and everything about it is just a mess.

This SBO '08 compared to the past years that I have shot was pretty much a cluster**** in every way....O well tournaments come and go.

43 years is proof enough that the guys who used to be on here know EXACTLY what they are doing...

[jfjf]

Originally Posted by The Collector

Tony, I can no longer sit on the sidelines for this show. I must commend you on what I think are misdirection skills rivaling David Copperfield. The real story of this tournament is the fact that so many parts of it appear, to an admitted outsider who did not attend the tournament, to have been a complete disaster.

How long did people wait in line to weigh fish?
How long did people wait for the results?
How accurate were the results?
After years of steady growth in attendance & sponsors, how did it go this year?
In the middle of this disaster, someone on YOUR boat was SHOT????????????

HOW THE HELL DO YOU RUN OUT OF PRIZES AT A $100K TABLE WITH HALF THE CONTESTANTS FROM PREVIOUS YEARS???????

I heard a rumor that DAVE CARMICHAEL stepped up when this happened and offered ADDITIONAL PRIZES from ARMOR BAGS for contestants? If this IS true (knowing Dave I imagine it is as he has got to be one of THE BEST tournament sponsors our sport has ever had) how is it I have not heard anything about it from you or your site??

How long did you wait to post the results?
How long did it take to even address the cheating stuff?

The fact that you have managed to ruin a great website can be left up to debate. You and your many employees and Kool-Aid drinkers may believe it is better.
However, the fact that you have single-handedly managed to destroy a tournament that was the favorite event of the year for many is no longer debatable.

You have managed to spin this into a story about how great you are for FINALLY pulling your head out of the sand and doing something about cheating, while at the same time deflecting criticism to other tournaments and even Doc.

There is only ONE reason why the OTHER website started.
There is only ONE reason Team Spearboard changed it’s name.
There is only ONE person ever nominated for removal from our club.
There is only ONE person with the ability to screw up the best tournament of the year.

There is no question that I do not like you Tony, but, it is not only your fault. I am also immensely frustrated that our community has allowed itself to be bought, coerced, and otherwise hoodwinked into believing that you might in fact be good for our sport.

To all the employees and Kool-Aid drinkers, importantly JFJF, how ‘bout you let Tony speak for himself.

First of all, who the flip are you to tell me that I can not respond? You have left the board, left the tournament and have done everything possible to destroy the site and the tournament. You sound like an angry little adolescent.

Since you have chosen to not support the tournament, why should you care how it goes? Apparently you are unable to just “walk away”.

I suspect that in actuality, you are very disappointed that the “show went on “ without you. Your bitching on this board is reminiscent of the Grinch-who- stole-Christmas. You and some others have tried to take everything possible away and yet on “Christmas morning” people were still gathered and having fun. Face it, there is NOTHING that Tony could do that you would be happy with.

I promise you, you will never see Tony going over to another site and ranting and raving and demanding answers about a tournament that he did not attend.

Go away.

[SkremenGSXR]

Originally Posted by KWspearClub

I don't want to get involved with this situation but for research purposes, What is the name of that other site?

www.Spearfishinglanet.com

[Seacidal]

You hear this kind of stuff all the time from people who couldn't make it work, so they sell off the project and then when the new owners are successful, they start screaming every chance they get.

Seems like another effort to derail a thread, slander this board and promote a site that was created seemingly out of resentment and envy.

Bill's comments are very insightful. Spearboard is discussion of divers about all things diving (with some good "off-topic" subject matter on the side). On "TOB" (the other board), it's difficult to read a thread without somebody hurling insults at Spearboard or its mods.

Like others, I've tried TOB and found the finger-pointing and chest-pounding mentality to be a bit much. Such juvenile rants quickly become tedious.

As a buddy used to say, "if you think you can do better, go ahead." Rather than complain and degrade, simply host additional events directed toward improving this sport and its valuable community.

Just some things to think about. Thanks.

[The Collector]

Originally Posted by jfjf

First of all, who the flip are you to tell me that I can not respond? .

I am not telling you that you cannot respond. You are predictable and were guaranteed to respond. I simply wanted to point out ahead of time the standard response to such fact based statements would either be complete deletion, or a JFJF attack. Good job.

Originally Posted by jfjf

You have left the board, left the tournament and have done everything possible to destroy the site and the tournament. You sound like an angry little adolescent.
Since you have chosen to not support the tournament, why should you care how it goes? Apparently you are unable to just “walk away”

Left the board, yes. Left the tournament (my favorite), yes. Done everything possible to destroy both? You have lost your mind.
First, at the conclusion of last year’s tournament I told Tony I would no longer help him with it but that I would leave a copy of the scoring database (my business partner & I spent a great deal of time developing) on his computer for future use. I DID. The fact that he last minute chose to throw something together that did not work, is yet another example of his lack of good judgment which is resulting in the destruction of a great tournament.
Second, I agreed to run a crew of four guys to the grounds on MY boat for this tournament. I was not going to shoot it, but I was going to run them out as they did not possess a grounds capable boat. I spent much of Friday preparing it and filled it with $1,300 in gas & oil only to have a motor go out Friday night. The guys managed another ride and did in fact shoot it.

You are as ignorant as you are predictable.

Originally Posted by jfjf

I suspect that in actuality, you are very disappointed that the “show went on “ without you. Your bitching on this board is reminiscent of the Grinch-who- stole-Christmas. You and some others have tried to take everything possible away and yet on “Christmas morning” people were still gathered and having fun.

As I said, despite what I think of Tony and what I imagined would happen, I agreed to support 4 guys in shooting it. Your lumping me in with the others is misguided.
How long did everyone wait for the results? 1 post about Rob’s great win and how many about cheating or other problems? If that was Christmas, I need to look into Judaism.
What did the kids near the end of the results think when Santa ran out of presents at your Christmas?

Originally Posted by jfjf

Face it, there is NOTHING that Tony could do that you would be happy with.

He could go ahead and cancel next year’s tournament so that we will not be accused of a whole bunch of stuff if we try to build another one that is WELL ORGANIZED and WELL INTENTIONED. That would make me happy.

Originally Posted by jfjf

I promise you, you will never see Tony going over to another site and ranting and raving and demanding answers about a tournament that he did not attend.

Sorry for the rant & rave. Tony f’d up something that I worked hard on and liked a lot. A very good friend of mine was actually heart broken as he had been involved with the SBO since year #1. Tony did not call him until it was too late and he was unable to help due to another commitment. Another example of poor judgment leading to this disaster.

Originally Posted by jfjf

Go away.

I imagine, as I have yet to say anything untrue, or violate any policies, you will come up with something and ban me.

[The Collector]

Originally Posted by Seacidal

You hear this kind of stuff all the time from people who couldn't make it work, so they sell off the project and then when the new owners are successful, they start screaming every chance they get.

Seems like another effort to derail a thread, slander this board and promote a site that was created seemingly out of resentment and envy.

Bill's comments are very insightful. Spearboard is discussion of divers about all things diving (with some good "off-topic" subject matter on the side). On "TOB" (the other board), it's difficult to read a thread without somebody hurling insults at Spearboard or its mods.

Like others, I've tried TOB and found the finger-pointing and chest-pounding mentality to be a bit much. Such juvenile rants quickly become tedious.

As a buddy used to say, "if you think you can do better, go ahead." Rather than complain and degrade, simply host additional events directed toward improving this sport and its valuable community.

Just some things to think about. Thanks.

Couldn't make it work? We weighed twice the people in half the time, had real time electronic leaderboards and had infallable results in 10 minutes under the CURRENT ownership.
I am not screaming about his success, it is about his failure.